Do you think Fox will/should make a Silver Surfer film?

[Mr. Dent]

I'm not about to get into that hypothetical debate here but I'll say that TASM very easily takes place before Avengers if they were in the same universe.

[Dr Tactics]

[QUOTE=Mr. Dent;25203389]^ Yes it would be, on top of a Deadpool movie, more Woverine films, and maybe X-Men spinning off into X-Force. Fox can do so many cool things that people don't realize. With Surfer they can even explore the Shi'ar empire since Fox should have the rights to that and then use that as the bases for a FF/X-Men crossover film.

Why would yo assume that Fox the rights to the Shi'ar Empire when they don't have the rights to the Inhumans, Black Panther and Namor. All of which debut on the FF comic but Marvel has the rights to?

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

And I don't think that FF will be nearly as dependent on the X-Men with Fox as they would be with the Avengers at Marvel. They're going to be largely in their own corners until a crossover film way down the line. Fox is obligated to continue producing FF films so every film they put out is not going to tie right into the X-Men films, unlike if Marvel had the rights, where they can just make a film or two that ties into the Avengers and then call it a day.

Well being the FF are the only Non-Mutant in the Fox-Marvel shared universe I think they do have to heavily depend on the the X-Verse because the Fox-Verse is the X-Verse and the FF just has to fit in somehow. And there in lies the problem of Fox holding on to the rights. The FF are heroes but Mutants are villains..

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I think the situation we're in right now is ideal, with Spider-Man, X-Men, and FF at different studios than Marvel. The only thing I would ask for is some little easter eggs to make it clear that they all work in the same universe, like some Stark Industries tech in Spider-Man or the term mutants being used in one of the MCU films. Other than that, it's quite fine to keep them separate and not crossover into the Avengers.

It would be fine if the Studios worked together. Even Easter Eggs (courtesy of X studio) cost money I gather. But they won't because of greed. All these studios want something from Marvel and Marvel doesn't have to give them anything to further their MCU. So they'll keep all the rights and do the best they can. Sony can do it because they have a Marvel Staple in Spider-Man. The FF aren't as known to the GA and really do need an Avengers-like Jumpoff like Ant-Man will probably do through A2.. But, Fox?? They're either too stupid or too arrogant to realize this.. So who suffers?? The one's who dreams of a financially successful FF movie that will warrant sequels.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by Dr Tactics

Why would yo assume that Fox the rights to the Shi'ar Empire when they don't have the rights to the Inhumans, Black Panther and Namor. All of which debut on the FF comic but Marvel has the rights to?

Because they first appeared in X-Men, not FF, and are primarily used in X-Men books.

Well being the FF are the only Non-Mutant in the Fox-Marvel shared universe I think they do have to heavily depend on the the X-Verse because the Fox-Verse is the X-Verse and the FF just has to fit in somehow. And there in lies the problem of Fox holding on to the rights. The FF are heroes but Mutants are villains..

I don't understand how you figure because they're not mutants they have to be dependent on X-Men because they are mutants. It doesn't make sense. Mutants existing could have very little effect on the Fantastic Four other than the public being cautious of them when they first debut...which will obviously change.

It would be fine if the Studios worked together. Even Easter Eggs (courtesy of X studio) cost money I gather. But they won't because of greed. All these studios want something from Marvel and Marvel doesn't have to give them anything to further their MCU. So they'll keep all the rights and do the best they can. Sony can do it because they have a Marvel Staple in Spider-Man. The FF aren't as known to the GA and really do need an Avengers-like Jumpoff like Ant-Man will probably do through A2.. But, Fox?? They're either too stupid or too arrogant to realize this.. So who suffers?? The one's who dreams of a financially successful FF movie that will warrant sequels.

The FF are pretty well known though. They were one of Marvel's most well known brands up until 2008 along with Hulk and Spider-Man. Guardians isn't getting a jump off film and they're a very similar concept to FF (except without as much of the family and exploration aspect).

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Aztec

But they are NOT in the same universe. Despite what the leaches over at Fox and Sony may want; Marvel/Disney doesn't want it...and rightfully so IMHO. It just wouldn't make any sense that the Battle of New York is never mentioned in Spider-Man. Or the fact that mutants are running amok isn't addressed in Avengers. I'm so glad that the Oscorp building was left out of Avengers.

Show me proof that Marvel/Disney doesn't want to share their universe with the Marvel properties at other studios. There's no indication of that whatsoever except in the blinkered visions of a handful of Marvel Rights Activists on these boards.

[Aztec]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Show me proof that Marvel/Disney doesn't want to share their universe with the Marvel properties at other studios. There's no indication of that whatsoever except in the blinkered visions of a handful of Marvel Rights Activists on these boards.

The easiest way for me to respond to this post is: "Show me proof that Marvel DOES want to share their universe with Fox/Sony".

What's the best you got? The Oscorp Tower idea that a few guys kicked around but was never used?

However, I'll play your game if you want. How about the proposed Galactus/Silver Surfer for Daredevil trade for proof? Clearly Marvel has designs for these characters, and they don't trust Fox to use them properly, so they asked for those rights back. If they trusted Fox, and/or wanted to merge the universes (as you suggest), wouldn't they simply let Fox make the movie and tie it in?

Other proof? Rather than hammering out deals with Fox/Sony to get their heavy hitters back Marvel is moving forward with lesser known characters: Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, etc. They are showing Fox, Sony, and probably more importantly WB/DC that they don't even need big draw power to be successful just good storytelling, characters, and creative direction. It's worked for Cap, Iron Man, and Thor so far; all characters the General Audience knew next to nothing about before their solo outings and The Avengers. Hell, they also showed the audience that Hulk CAN be made awesome on the big screen. Now that the GA is aware of these characters and Marvel's interconnected plans, they will be increasingly on board with Marvel's strategy IMHO. The Avengers are truly part of the vernacular of popular culture now like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc. So Marvel simply doesn't NEED Spidey, X-Men, FF, and GR at the moment. They are EXTREMELY successful without them. Although they would certainly like them back...but only under their terms.

Finally Marvel has little reason to trust Fox or Sony because their percentages of quality films is so poor. Again look at Fox: they are 3 for 9 in Marvel films. Sony is 3 for 6 in Marvel films. These are awful percentages. WB/DC's percentages are even worse I'm sure, although I'd have to debate what counts as a "DC" movie vs. a Vertigo, etc...(I'll leave that for someone else). Marvel/Disney on the other hand? They are 6 for 6!

What makes you so convinced that Fox has it right now? The fact that First Class was better than expected? Aside from Magneto's scenes that movie wasn't nearly as mind blowing as some make it out to be. In fact, I found it rather redundant at this point, but that's just me. Perhaps you are excited about Millar's inclusion? Have you read any of his stuff? I'll give you The Ultimates, but aside from that his only contribution to comics is taking characters and turning them "EXTREME!!!!!". Do you also know that he hasn't even met with Bryan Singer yet? Also The Wolverine was nearly finished with production before he was even offered the role. How much of an impact is he going to have on that one? Maybe your hanging your hopes on Bryan Singer's return? May I ask, how is that a novel idea for Fox? They are simply grasping at straws by returning to the ONLY success they have found with these films. This is not a creative stroke, this is DESPERATION. Fox has yet to have a single creative idea yet. A Cinematic Universe? They blatantly stole that from Marvel. Marvel Studios rightfully owns the title: "The House of Ideas". They are by far the most creative movie studio in recent memory, perhaps all time!

Singer confirms that the "Cinematic Universe" includes all 5 X-Men films released currently. Do you want a universe where XO:Wolverine and The Last Stand exist? A universe where continuity is so chaotic and shoddy (thanks to XO:W and First Class) that they have to make a time travel movie to try and make sense of it?

To be honest. I'm simply not sold on Fox's turnaround. If I'm Marvel/Disney, I stay the hell away from them and Sony. But of course maybe I'll be proved wrong...

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Because they first appeared in X-Men, not FF, and are primarily used in X-Men books.

Fox owns everything pertaining to mutants and all mutant X characters (But why Marvel owns Cable kinda throws me for a loop using that logic) and not necessarily which comic it came from first as the above examples of Namor not being owned by Fox but first appeared in the FF. There is I'm sure some grey area like Wanda and Pietro Maximoff but I can't call it as IMO I think Marvel has a lock on all empires in the cosmic realm. I could be wrong though

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I don't understand how you figure because they're not mutants they have to be dependent on X-Men because they are mutants. It doesn't make sense. Mutants existing could have very little effect on the Fantastic Four other than the public being cautious of them when they first debut...which will obviously change.

I don't mean the X-Men team its self but the Fox X Universe as a whole. They're alone because Fox has all the mutants but none of the non-mutant heroes. GoG aren't dependent on the Avengers team but they'll share a common foe in Thanos (maybe) but the GoG are their own team. What foes do the X-Men and the Fantastic Four share like that?? Thats what I'm saying..

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

The FF are pretty well known though. They were one of Marvel's most well known brands up until 2008 along with Hulk and Spider-Man. Guardians isn't getting a jump off film and they're a very similar concept to FF (except without as much of the family and exploration aspect).

But Marvel has momentum that Fox only has with the X Franchise. And even Fox's momentum pales in comparison to the Marvel film culminating the Avengers. In fact the Avengers is the first Marvel Comic movie to get a Oscar nomination (fact-check me on that if I'm wrong). And you have to take into consideration that FF had two not well received movies previous. Though fans are more readily able to separate a reboot the GA, not so much. Even now if you google the FF reboot the picture associated with the story have the old cast which revives memory of the old films in respect to the reboot.

Originally Posted by Aztec

But they are NOT in the same universe. Despite what the leaches over at Fox and Sony may want; Marvel/Disney doesn't want it...and rightfully so IMHO. It just wouldn't make any sense that the Battle of New York is never mentioned in Spider-Man. Or the fact that mutants are running amok isn't addressed in Avengers. I'm so glad that the Oscorp building was left out of Avengers.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Show me proof that Marvel/Disney doesn't want to share their universe with the Marvel properties at other studios. There's no indication of that whatsoever except in the blinkered visions of a handful of Marvel Rights Activists on these boards.

Aztec wouldn't be able to provide proof because his assertion just isn't true. Marvel would like use of all its characters. What Marvel doesn't want to do is pay another studio for its use. See what's wrong is that the other studios (and maybe even Marvel themselves) don't want to help a rival studio even though they're too greedy to see that it'll help themselves and their own properties. I'm almost willing to bet that the Oscorp Easter Egg that almost was in the Avengers will materialize in another form possibly in ASM2 to establish that Spider-Man exists in the MCU. Its about money. It's all about Money. The Fans as well as the GA wants to see a cohesive Marvel universe. The studio exec's have to know this. They just need to get to the table to get this straight

[Aztec]

Originally Posted by Dr Tactics

1) I don't mean the X-Men team itself but the Fox X Universe as a whole. They're alone because Fox has all the mutants but none of the non-mutant heroes. GotG aren't dependent on the Avengers team but they'll share a common foe in Thanos (maybe) but the GotG are their own team. What foes do the X-Men and the Fantastic Four share like that?? That's what I'm saying..

2) But Marvel has momentum that Fox only has with the X Franchise. And even Fox's momentum pales in comparison to the Marvel film culminating the Avengers.

3) Aztec wouldn't be able to provide proof because his assertion just isn't true. Marvel would like use of all its characters. What Marvel doesn't want to do is pay another studio for its use.

I don't know how to split quotes so I'll just number some points to respond to.

1) I agree. I have no idea what kind of common ground they will find for X-Men and Fantastic Four. Even more of a reason why I don't have much faith in Fox pulling off anything special with their Fox Marvel Cinematic Universe (FMCU?).

2) Agreed, but again this furthers my point that Marvel simply doesn't need to associate with Fox. There would be no advantage in doing so.

3) I don't get it. You trash me by claiming that my "assertion just isn't true" and then you say nothing about how it isn't true. In fact, everything you claim I agree with completely. OF COURSE Marvel WANTS to use all of its characters, it's just that they have proven that they don't NEED all of their characters to be successful. So why on earth or Asgard would they need a useless financial leach like Fox and/or Sony to deal with?

Finally, you claim that you are "almost willing to bet" TASM2 will tie into the MCU. While nothing is impossible, this is pure speculation at best. Again, I have to ask: What does Marvel/Disney have to gain from this? A very popular character as part of their universe that they can't use in a film without paying through the nose for? Especially when they are proving that second and even third tier characters can be successful on screen with the right talent and plot? And not to mention they have hundreds more such characters on top of that? I just don't see it. Sorry.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Aztec

The easiest way for me to respond to this post is: "Show me proof that Marvel DOES want to share their universe with Fox/Sony".

What's the best you got? The Oscorp Tower idea that a few guys kicked around but was never used?

However, I'll play your game if you want. How about the proposed Galactus/Silver Surfer for Daredevil trade for proof? Clearly Marvel has designs for these characters, and they don't trust Fox to use them properly, so they asked for those rights back. If they trusted Fox, and/or wanted to merge the universes (as you suggest), wouldn't they simply let Fox make the movie and tie it in?

Other proof? Rather than hammering out deals with Fox/Sony to get their heavy hitters back Marvel is moving forward with lesser known characters: Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, etc. They are showing Fox, Sony, and probably more importantly WB/DC that they don't even need big draw power to be successful just good storytelling, characters, and creative direction. It's worked for Cap, Iron Man, and Thor so far; all characters the General Audience knew next to nothing about before their solo outings and The Avengers. Hell, they also showed the audience that Hulk CAN be made awesome on the big screen. Now that the GA is aware of these characters and Marvel's interconnected plans, they will be increasingly on board with Marvel's strategy IMHO. The Avengers are truly part of the vernacular of popular culture now like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc. So Marvel simply doesn't NEED Spidey, X-Men, FF, and GR at the moment. They are EXTREMELY successful without them. Although they would certainly like them back...but only under their terms.

Finally Marvel has little reason to trust Fox or Sony because their percentages of quality films is so poor. Again look at Fox: they are 3 for 9 in Marvel films. Sony is 3 for 6 in Marvel films. These are awful percentages. WB/DC's percentages are even worse I'm sure, although I'd have to debate what counts as a "DC" movie vs. a Vertigo, etc...(I'll leave that for someone else). Marvel/Disney on the other hand? They are 6 for 6!

What makes you so convinced that Fox has it right now? The fact that First Class was better than expected? Aside from Magneto's scenes that movie wasn't nearly as mind blowing as some make it out to be. In fact, I found it rather redundant at this point, but that's just me. Perhaps you are excited about Millar's inclusion? Have you read any of his stuff? I'll give you The Ultimates, but aside from that his only contribution to comics is taking characters and turning them "EXTREME!!!!!". Do you also know that he hasn't even met with Bryan Singer yet? Also The Wolverine was nearly finished with production before he was even offered the role. How much of an impact is he going to have on that one? Maybe your hanging your hopes on Bryan Singer's return? May I ask, how is that a novel idea for Fox? They are simply grasping at straws by returning to the ONLY success they have found with these films. This is not a creative stroke, this is DESPERATION. Fox has yet to have a single creative idea yet. A Cinematic Universe? They blatantly stole that from Marvel. Marvel Studios rightfully owns the title: "The House of Ideas". They are by far the most creative movie studio in recent memory, perhaps all time!

Singer confirms that the "Cinematic Universe" includes all 5 X-Men films released currently. Do you want a universe where XO:Wolverine and The Last Stand exist? A universe where continuity is so chaotic and shoddy (thanks to XO:W and First Class) that they have to make a time travel movie to try and make sense of it?

To be honest. I'm simply not sold on Fox's turnaround. If I'm Marvel/Disney, I stay the hell away from them and Sony. But of course maybe I'll be proved wrong...

All of that's a very paranoid view of Marvel's relationship with Fox and Sony, and you believe that this comes from a place of competition. Me, I prefer to look at it from a more objective standpoint, one that's coming from a place of business.

Marvel makes money off their properties at other studios. For every dollar that Spidey and X-Men and FF make, Marvel gets a percentage of the profits. They *want* those movies to succeed. IIRC, Disney/Marvel even acquired *all* the merchandising rights to the Spider-Man movie toys and tie-ins last year.

The brief spat over Galactus and Surfer had nothing to do with Marvel not trusting Fox to "do those characters justice"; it was simply that they wanted to use those characters in a future movie storyline, most likely something tied in with Guardians or Avengers. They don't begrudge Fox the opportunity to use them again in a Fantastic Four reboot.

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

All of that's a very paranoid view of Marvel's relationship with Fox and Sony, and you believe that this comes from a place of competition. Me, I prefer to look at it from a more objective standpoint, one that's coming from a place of business.

Marvel makes money off their properties at other studios. For every dollar that Spidey and X-Men and FF make, Marvel gets a percentage of the profits. They *want* those movies to succeed. IIRC, Disney/Marvel even acquired *all* the merchandising rights to the Spider-Man movie toys and tie-ins last year.

Marvel only makes 10% of of the BO and DVD sales so thats no real money IMO but..
While true for Sony its not so true for Fox's Marvel properties though at the moment they have Fox in a merchandising corner. While Marvel doesn't currently have a merchandising deal, Fox can't sell merchandise based on Marvel characters so Fox, at the moment, are stuck in getting all their money off their movies through BO and DVD/Bluray sales/rentals. Fox needs to do business with Disney for not only Marvel but for Star Wars I through VI too.

brief spat over Galactus and Surfer had nothing to do with Marvel not trusting Fox to "do those character justice"; it was simply that they wanted to use those characters in a future movie storyline, most likely something tied in with Guardians or Avengers. They don't begrudge Fox the opportunity to use them again in a Fantastic Four reboot.

No but Fox cut their nose to spite their face and thats why they're in a corner now treading water with their Chiuaua barking negotiating position while the Rottweiler Big Dogs of Sony (solely because they have Spider-Man) and Marvel/Disney because they have the IT factor right now.. Fox is the one that has to budge if they don't then, well.. They have to live with their own greed by losing money on the BO..

and..

Originally Posted by Aztec

3) I don't get it. You trash me by claiming that my "assertion just isn't true" and then you say nothing about how it isn't true. In fact, everything you claim I agree with completely. OF COURSE Marvel WANTS to use all of its characters, it's just that they have proven that they don't NEED all of their characters to be successful. So why on earth or Asgard would they need a useless financial leach like Fox and/or Sony to deal with?

Well I didn't mean to Trash you.. My apologies.. I read the statement that Marvel doesn't wan't a shared universe with the Fox characters and I'd just limit that to the X-Franchise but the FF fits right in with what they're doing. and Fox knows it so they're playing hardball but in reality their FF reboot is probably gonna bomb if they really go through with it.. And what a waste that is..

Finally, you claim that you are "almost willing to bet" TASM2 will tie into the MCU. While nothing is impossible, this is pure speculation at best. Again, I have to ask: What does Marvel/Disney have to gain from this? A very popular character as part of their universe that they can't use in a film without paying through the nose for? Especially when they are proving that second and even third tier characters can be successful on screen with the right talent and plot? And not to mention they have hundreds more such characters on top of that? I just don't see it. Sorry.

I'm still almost willing to bet because they do have a direct merchandising relationship which is a better relationship then what they have with Fox.. Though you do note I say "Almost willing" so I do agree with your caution..

[Mr. Dent]

I don't know about Marvel/Fox but I do know that Marvel/Sony have a very good relationship as stated by Feige himself and is shown in the fact that they're giving TASM2 the May blockbuster opener slot, how they're letting Sony distribute Iron Man: Rise of Technovore, and how they came to a deal to have the Oscorp building in the Avengers in the first place...not to mention that they were able to negotiate a deal that extended Sony's movie rights to Spider-Man for the animation rights and Sony sold the merchandising rights to Disney for extra cash. The idea that Marvel and Sony are antagonistic is simply not true and they have a history of working together.

[K'Prime]

There's something i still don't get about movie rights.Fox has a book with a whole bunch of mutants.now are they allowed to only use the mutants in said book?or can they use any new mutant that gets created by marvel if they appear in an x tittle?

[Shikamaru]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I don't know about Marvel/Fox but I do know that Marvel/Sony have a very good relationship as stated by Feige himself and is shown in the fact that they're giving TASM2 the May blockbuster opener slot, how they're letting Sony distribute Iron Man: Rise of Technovore, and how they came to a deal to have the Oscorp building in the Avengers in the first place...not to mention that they were able to negotiate a deal that extended Sony's movie rights to Spider-Man for the animation rights and Sony sold the merchandising rights to Disney for extra cash. The idea that Marvel and Sony are antagonistic is simply not true and they have a history of working together.

Exactly. They're not antagonistic at all. Can't say the same thing about Fox and Marvel.

Sony also let Marvel use the Empire State University in one of Marvel's One-Shots (Item 47). One of the characters wears an ESU shirt. ESU is a Spider-Man property who is a Sony property at the moment.

[Donnie Darko]

I think there will be winks for the fans to pick up on (like the Stark Industries name being on Magneto's plastic cell), but I doubt there will ever be anything bigger than that go on. I would actually prefer most of the franchises remain separate. I'm fine with the X-Men existing in their own world.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I am fine with X-Men at Fox, they have always worked better on their own, and Spidey at Sony, Spidey has more than enough villains to sustain his own franchise many times over.

But I do wish the FF and Galactus & SS would return to Marvel. IF Fox makes an SS movie, I dont see who the villain would be as Marvel owns the rights to all the best characters and villains from Silver Surfer's catalogue, so who would he fight exactly in his solo movie?

It pains me to says this as a huge SS fan, but even if it takes 10 years he doesnt get a movie for that long, he should go back to Marvel, then he could be involved in things like an Annhiliation adaptation, which lets face would be phenominal on the big screen.

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Did you overlook that part where I said that the Tom Rothman era is over?

No I don't think anybody did. But you may have overlooked the fact that it wasn't all Rothman's fault to begin with either.

Lauren Shuler Donner is still there and she's as guilty as Rothman was for those crappy films.

And as Aztec has stated what evendence do you have that would suggest that the bad films are over?

For all Mark Millar's pandering about him having Joss Whedon's role at FOX, Wolverine being FOX's Ironman/Mickeymouse and a aligned Marvel Universe, Singer reveiled a few days ago that he hasn't even met the guy and isn't even on the same page as him.

"I think he's working with Fox to look at some other stuff,"
"I guess they're trying to figure stuff out. I have my own thoughts about stuff like that." Bryan Singer~
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movie...X11KKxUVO8X.99

Lets not forget that Singer's no saint either. His Superman Return's sucked, Valkyrie was Meh at best and that Giant Slayer doesn't look all that great either.

So what besides Rothman's departure has really changed at FOX???

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by xeno000

It isn't obvious at all that the other studios have learned anything from Marvel's success. The only thing that is obvious is that they are now motivated by greed, the desire to replicate the billion-dollar payday Marvel achieved with The Avengers. Merely wanting to emulate Marvel's ability to make successful films doesn't mean that either studio actually has the ability to do so.


Mark Millar's hiring at Fox may be little more than window dressing. He has been very vocal about Fox's alleged desire to create a coherent universe with its Marvel properties. However, Bryan Singer hasn't even spoken to Millar and made it clear that whatever happens in the X films is controlled solely by him. There doesn't appear to be any coordination going on there. The consultant has also spoken of Josh Trank's plans for the FF reboot, but whether he has actually spoken to the director or writers is questionable. It's kind of hard to consult when no one is communicating.


Millar's one concrete contribution was convincing Matthew Vaughn to drop DOFP in favor of helming one of Millar's own films. With the follow-up to the (moderately) successful reboot now in the hands of a different director due to his influence, one has to wonder whether Millar's hiring was actually such a great thing for Fox's Marvel projects.

Wow Xeno is speaking the complete truth! LOL!

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I never said anything about Millar. My point is that they're taking the steps to right the wrongs they did in the past (in Fox's case). If you want to spin that as greed and cash grabs then so be it, but either way it works out to bigger, more ambitious, and more faithful adaptations of the materials for us fans. Just look at what they're doing with The Wolverine. They learned from their mistake with Origins, went back to the drawing board and saw how much success Marvel was having with their faithful adaptations, and decided to make a Wolverine film that actually draws more from the comics and put Wolverine in his solo habitat, where his individual films should belong. The Wolverine will be like a Spider-Man film or Iron Man film, it will be completely Wolverine and could be looked at as its own corner of the universe in a way. Great step in the right direction.

Now with DOFP they're doing the most ambitious, and probably faithful, adaptation of any X-Men film. It all works out for the fans.

With FF they're bringing in a director who will actually honor the source material and make a film that is not only focused on popcorn value but also what make the FF special.

Once again, spin it however you want to but either way fans win.

And where's your proof???

The only one doing the talking for FOX is Mark Millar and you're moon walking away from him better than MJ himself...

So lets look at The Wolverine... All we know is that it's taking place after X3. And we have yet to see a trailer and all Mangold could manage for an excuse is a d-bag remark about being early to a party. (As if FOX was even invited to this party...)

Yet seeing as how disappointed Origon's was, you'd think that FOX would want to get as many fans back on board as soon as possible with all the competition it's surrounded by this summer.

And DOFP just sounds like a convoluted mess so far so Vaughns departure as directer may have more clues about it than one would think.

So sorry but I'm not buying...Everything you're quoting is from Mark Millars mouth which ironically you've disavowed any liking to within the same quote.

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by Aztec

The easiest way for me to respond to this post is: "Show me proof that Marvel DOES want to share their universe with Fox/Sony".

What's the best you got? The Oscorp Tower idea that a few guys kicked around but was never used?

However, I'll play your game if you want. How about the proposed Galactus/Silver Surfer for Daredevil trade for proof? Clearly Marvel has designs for these characters, and they don't trust Fox to use them properly, so they asked for those rights back. If they trusted Fox, and/or wanted to merge the universes (as you suggest), wouldn't they simply let Fox make the movie and tie it in?

Other proof? Rather than hammering out deals with Fox/Sony to get their heavy hitters back Marvel is moving forward with lesser known characters: Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, etc. They are showing Fox, Sony, and probably more importantly WB/DC that they don't even need big draw power to be successful just good storytelling, characters, and creative direction. It's worked for Cap, Iron Man, and Thor so far; all characters the General Audience knew next to nothing about before their solo outings and The Avengers. Hell, they also showed the audience that Hulk CAN be made awesome on the big screen. Now that the GA is aware of these characters and Marvel's interconnected plans, they will be increasingly on board with Marvel's strategy IMHO. The Avengers are truly part of the vernacular of popular culture now like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc. So Marvel simply doesn't NEED Spidey, X-Men, FF, and GR at the moment. They are EXTREMELY successful without them. Although they would certainly like them back...but only under their terms.

Finally Marvel has little reason to trust Fox or Sony because their percentages of quality films is so poor. Again look at Fox: they are 3 for 9 in Marvel films. Sony is 3 for 6 in Marvel films. These are awful percentages. WB/DC's percentages are even worse I'm sure, although I'd have to debate what counts as a "DC" movie vs. a Vertigo, etc...(I'll leave that for someone else). Marvel/Disney on the other hand? They are 6 for 6!

What makes you so convinced that Fox has it right now? The fact that First Class was better than expected? Aside from Magneto's scenes that movie wasn't nearly as mind blowing as some make it out to be. In fact, I found it rather redundant at this point, but that's just me. Perhaps you are excited about Millar's inclusion? Have you read any of his stuff? I'll give you The Ultimates, but aside from that his only contribution to comics is taking characters and turning them "EXTREME!!!!!". Do you also know that he hasn't even met with Bryan Singer yet? Also The Wolverine was nearly finished with production before he was even offered the role. How much of an impact is he going to have on that one? Maybe your hanging your hopes on Bryan Singer's return? May I ask, how is that a novel idea for Fox? They are simply grasping at straws by returning to the ONLY success they have found with these films. This is not a creative stroke, this is DESPERATION. Fox has yet to have a single creative idea yet. A Cinematic Universe? They blatantly stole that from Marvel. Marvel Studios rightfully owns the title: "The House of Ideas". They are by far the most creative movie studio in recent memory, perhaps all time!

Singer confirms that the "Cinematic Universe" includes all 5 X-Men films released currently. Do you want a universe where XO:Wolverine and The Last Stand exist? A universe where continuity is so chaotic and shoddy (thanks to XO:W and First Class) that they have to make a time travel movie to try and make sense of it?

To be honest. I'm simply not sold on Fox's turnaround. If I'm Marvel/Disney, I stay the hell away from them and Sony. But of course maybe I'll be proved wrong...

Cosign!

I've been saying this for months now!

Opinion cleary based on FACTS!

And trust me, Marvel Studios isn't going anywhere near FOX's continuity when even Stan Lee has turned his nose up at most of it.

[blalex620]

Everyone agrees that Marvel can be successful with lower tier characters given the right director, script, and creative team yet, hardly anyone applies this concept to Fox's Marvel properties. Granted I agree to an extent that some of there movies did suck it wasn't all their fault. XMOFP could be a really great XM film given the amazing storyline, the bringing back of the director who made the first two XM films who everyone agrees were great so while Singer may not have a great track record with everything else he does have one with X films.
And as far as a FF reboot I have faith that Trank can do it justice. Give him the right creative team and script with Millar helping out he could do wonders.

As for a SS movie I don't know much about the character save from his FF ties if given the right things it could work.

[kedrell]

I've never agreed that the Singer X-Men films were great(this goes for XMFC as well). I will admit that they managed to 'not suck' but I would never hang the label of 'great' on them. They were adequate, much like the first two and latest of the Spider-man films at Sony.

[blalex620]

Originally Posted by kedrell

I've never agreed that the Singer X-Men films were great(this goes for XMFC as well). I will admit that they managed to 'not suck' but I would never hang the label of 'great' on them. They were adequate, much like the first two and latest of the Spider-man films at Sony.

I would say they were more than adequate for their time but even still Singer has a good track record with X films

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by kedrell

I've never agreed that the Singer X-Men films were great(this goes for XMFC as well). I will admit that they managed to 'not suck' but I would never hang the label of 'great' on them. They were adequate, much like the first two and latest of the Spider-man films at Sony.

XMFC was Vaughn. Singer contributed a little to the script, but that's it.

In any case, the first X-Men movie was the one that single-handedly launched the era of Marvel movies. (Blade doesn't count, because even today, there's plenty of general audiences that don't have a clue that he's even a Marvel character. Blade got popular because of "zomg vampires!" in the height of the vampire movie era.)

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

XMFC was Vaughn. Singer contributed a little to the script, but that's it.

In any case, the first X-Men movie was the one that single-handedly launched the era of Marvel movies. (Blade doesn't count, because even today, there's plenty of general audiences that don't have a clue that he's even a Marvel character. Blade got popular because of "zomg vampires!" in the height of the vampire movie era.)

I swear some of you give FOX way too much credit.

Ask Avi Arad if "Blade" counts as well as "Men in Black" for that matter since both where Marvel Properties.

Just because the GA may not be aware of it's comic book roots doesn't mean that their success didn't kick start the bargaining table for future Marvel films as stated here regarding Men in Black:

"The film was released on July 2, 1997, by Columbia Pictures and grossed $589,390,539 worldwide against a $90 million budget..... The success of the film inspired Marvel (who, by 1997, owned the property) to option other properties for development, later collaborating with Columbia Pictures to produce Spider-Man amongst other projects." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_in_Black_(film)

....Then came Blade, and then came X-men, etc, etc.

So thank Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, not FOX-men!

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by blalex620

Everyone agrees that Marvel can be successful with lower tier characters given the right director, script, and creative team yet, hardly anyone applies this concept to Fox's Marvel properties. Granted I agree to an extent that some of there movies did suck it wasn't all their fault. XMOFP could be a really great XM film given the amazing storyline, the bringing back of the director who made the first two XM films who everyone agrees were great so while Singer may not have a great track record with everything else he does have one with X films.
And as far as a FF reboot I have faith that Trank can do it justice. Give him the right creative team and script with Millar helping out he could do wonders.

As for a SS movie I don't know much about the character save from his FF ties if given the right things it could work.

Well FOX had a the perfect opportunity of showing this in First Class. Instead we only got 2 stand out performances by Eric and Charles. The supporting cast were all mediocre at best. (Kevin Bacon was not "Shaw" he was a mutant Kevin Bacon with supbar special effects)

FOX also has the opportunity to show it in the upcoming DOFP film but isn't they're just shoe horning in any previous character the can to compete with Hobbit 3 and anything else surrounding it's release date.

If FOX would hire a script writer who writes instead of a writer who talks (Millar). Maybe those lower teir characters could have more success. But this has been their ongoing issue for 13 years now...

So as it stands now, FOX couldn't get another Daredevil project off the ground in time so the rights reverted back to Marvel and Silver Surfer and Deadpool projects have been in development hell for more than 4 years now.


So if it wasn't all FOX's fault then who's was it...?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by YoungPrime

I swear some of you give FOX way too much credit.

And you give them NO credit. Why you gotta be such a hater?

Ask Avi Arad if "Blade" counts as well as "Men in Black" for that matter since both where Marvel Properties.

Just because the GA may not be aware of it's comic book roots doesn't mean that their success didn't kick start the bargaining table for future Marvel films as stated here regarding Men in Black:

"The film was released on July 2, 1997, by Columbia Pictures and grossed $589,390,539 worldwide against a $90 million budget..... The success of the film inspired Marvel (who, by 1997, owned the property) to option other properties for development, later collaborating with Columbia Pictures to produce Spider-Man amongst other projects." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_in_Black_(film)

....Then came Blade, and then came X-men, etc, etc.

So thank Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, not FOX-men!

Reality check: you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who actually read a first-run MIB or Blade comic book. You can count on the fingers of two hands, plus the toes on half a foot, the number of people who realized that the movies were actually based on comic books.

X-Men was the first real foray into Marvel cinema, based on comic book characters that general audiences actually had heard of, other than some truly abysmal D-grade movies from the 80s and early 90s (Howard the Duck and Dolph Lundgren's Punisher, a DTV Captain America, and a Fantastic Four that thankfully never saw the light of day). *That's* what inspired the current run of movies based on the Marvel comics universe.

Originally Posted by YoungPrime

Well FOX had a the perfect opportunity of showing this in First Class. Instead we only got 2 stand out performances by Eric and Charles. The supporting cast were all mediocre at best. (Kevin Bacon was not "Shaw" he was a mutant Kevin Bacon with supbar special effects)

Yeah, "the supporting cast were all mediocre at best": that's why J-Law broke out and turned into an overnight phenomenon, and why she shares Breakout Performance nominations with Zoe Kravitz. Why don't you quit spouting your *opinion* as *facts?*

ZOMG....FACTS based on OPINION.