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Old 02-04-2013, 05:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

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Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
It's also suggesting that no matter what, it's impossible to expect all citizens to come together to protect their city as a union of "good" to fight off evil. It's just impossible. There's always going to be people who are too lazy to do anything, cowardly waiting for the place to be fixed through the actions of others. There's always going to be people who ENJOY the bad that is happening. And there will always only be a portion of good people who will actually stand up.

So there's a ****load of work to do in Gotham. I think the idea is that perhaps once they're saved from an atom bomb and they honor Batman, a ton of them may stand up now. But that's only a portion. That's why Batman is still needed.

It's Nolans way of creating a young successor to the cowl, like Terry, but in a seperate universe. While giving a nice wink to the fans with the "Robin" reference.

It's a way of saying..

"yes this is an original character created for this trilogy but he is the epitome of almost every successor that's ever been under Bruce Wayne. We wont show you Batgirl or a kid Grayson/Todd/Drake/Kelly running around in a red suit, or a sci-fi Bats who comes back to the cave to see 80 year old Bruce with his dog Ace. But they all have something in common: the theme of passing the mantle. For the legacy to live forever through multiple generations".

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Old 02-04-2013, 08:49 PM   #27
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There is zero reason to conclude that there is no Batsuit.

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

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Blake knows that the whole Gotham City believes that Batman has sacrificed himself to save the City, Yes ?

Blake Knows that a statue of Batman has been placed in the Gotham City's Town Hall by the mayor.

So, why many people believe that Blake was going to be the new Batman, I believe that if Nolan wanted to show that Blake is indeed Gotham's new Batman, he would have shown a Batsuit coming out of the Batcave platform.
Lets say Bruce didn't pass the mantle to Blake...Would Bruce not return as Batman when needed just because the city thought he died?

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Old 02-07-2013, 03:00 PM   #29
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Blake knows that the whole Gotham City believes that Batman has sacrificed himself to save the City, Yes ?

Blake Knows that a statue of Batman has been placed in the Gotham City's Town Hall by the mayor.
Batman telling Blake to wear a mask and handing him all the resources to Batcave means that he wants Blake to become a new vigilante (Nightwing ?)[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. Keep in mind, the entire point of Bruce becoming Batman in the first place was that Batman is "An idea", and ideas can't be killed. So there's a Batman statue? So what? By having blake 'resurrect' Batman he's simply strengthening the mythological power behind symbol. In effect, having Batman 'die' and then 'come back to life' arguably makes Batman more effective.

Conversely, I do think Blake becoming an 'Oracle' type character instead is a definite possibility, but assuming he was to take up a vigilante approach I would sooner expect him to become Batman than Nightwing. Nightwing hasn't got a resonant history in this universe, and would be far less effective than simply carrying on in the tradition of wearing the Bat-mantle.

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So, why many people believe that Blake was going to be the new Batman, I believe that if Nolan wanted to show that Blake is indeed Gotham's new Batman, he would have shown a Batsuit coming out of the Batcave platform.
If anything he wanted to leave it open to the audience's interpretation. You're interpretation is that Blake will become Nightwing. Whereas others feel that he will become the next Batman.


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It's a way of saying..

"yes this is an original character created for this trilogy but he is the epitome of almost every successor that's ever been under Bruce Wayne. We wont show you Batgirl or a kid Grayson/Todd/Drake/Kelly running around in a red suit, or a sci-fi Bats who comes back to the cave to see 80 year old Bruce with his dog Ace. But they all have something in common: the theme of passing the mantle. For the legacy to live forever through multiple generations".
This. Exactly this. The specifics are left open. It's the thematic element that matters.

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:36 PM   #30
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Batman is a symbol. His set out to inspire people. He inspired John Blake.

"Anybody can be Batman" (metaphorically speaking). It's the thematic / symbolic meaning that's important

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Old 02-15-2013, 03:29 AM   #31
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Because people, and societies, slide over time. Gotham wasn't always a cesspool - it became one after years of deterioration.

The symbol of the Batman, of the people of Gotham, needs to be present in people's minds, continuing to inspire them. Otherwise, it will be forgotten and, over time, Gotham will eventually slip back into corruption and decay.

The fight for justice can never be definitively WON forever, but as long as there are men willing to stand up and keep fighting forever, then it's also never LOST.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:37 PM   #32
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I actually don't believe Bruce quit. It makes more sense to me that he simply decided to kill the Bruce Wayne playboy persona, and just live his life privately as Batman with some changes. Him showing up at the cafe is just to make a point to Alfred that he was alive and got the girl; like a boss. Blake is just a recruit/temporary replacement, similar to when Dick Grayson takes the mantle of Batman sometimes. The whole "we wanted the give the trilogy a definitive ending" angle is crap. This ending is neither better nor inferior to the other movies' in the trilogy. They are all open-ended by design. Begins' ending is excitingly scary, The Dark Knight's is emotional and cryptic, and the The Dark Knight Rises is reassuring and symbolic.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

It would be terribly naive of someone like Bruce Wayne to think Gotham would be squeaky clean forever after he left.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:18 PM   #34
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If anything, though, I think Bruce Wayne would believe Gotham City will become a little bit better after he left, especially after the events of Bane's siege and the police coming together to help Batman.

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:20 AM   #35
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I actually don't believe Bruce quit. It makes more sense to me that he simply decided to kill the Bruce Wayne playboy persona, and just live his life privately as Batman with some changes. Him showing up at the cafe is just to make a point to Alfred that he was alive and got the girl; like a boss. Blake is just a recruit/temporary replacement, similar to when Dick Grayson takes the mantle of Batman sometimes. The whole "we wanted the give the trilogy a definitive ending" angle is crap. This ending is neither better nor inferior to the other movies' in the trilogy. They are all open-ended by design. Begins' ending is excitingly scary, The Dark Knight's is emotional and cryptic, and the The Dark Knight Rises is reassuring and symbolic.
You're living in denial.

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Old 02-18-2013, 02:52 AM   #36
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^ Agreed. There is nothing to suggest that Bruce is continuing on as Batman.

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Old 02-18-2013, 12:22 PM   #37
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You know what I just realized? It's a bit weird to suggest Alfred was dreaming the last scene as some have thought of simply because why would Alfred dream of Selina Kyle when he never saw her? Lol.

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Old 02-18-2013, 01:35 PM   #38
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You're living in denial.
It's and open ended finale my man. I can be in denial all the I want. And that's just while suspending disbelief.

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Old 02-18-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
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You know what I just realized? It's a bit weird to suggest Alfred was dreaming the last scene as some have thought of simply because why would Alfred dream of Selina Kyle when he never saw her? Lol.
Well, he spoke with her early in the movie and knows what she looks like because of Bruce's computers. But people who think Alfreds dreaming are in denial or forcing an Inception ending onto it because there are a few scenes at the end that prove it's real. It's like people don't pay attention when they watch a movie or something.

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Old 02-18-2013, 02:18 PM   #40
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I don't think seeing the criminal records would make sense for Alfred to imagine Selina's body, but I totally forgot that he did talk to her in the beginning of the film. Haha, TDKR is so long it's easy to forget some things.


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Old 02-18-2013, 04:22 PM   #41
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I don't think seeing the criminal records would make sense for Alfred to imagine Selina's body, but I totally forgot that he did talk to her in the beginning of the film.
I'm sure he hardly remembered anything about her, though. He had a 10 second interaction so I doubt he'd remember that vividly.

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Old 02-18-2013, 10:11 PM   #42
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It's and open ended finale my man. I can be in denial all the I want. And that's just while suspending disbelief.
There was actually nothing open-ended about it, as far as Bruce was concerned.

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Old 02-19-2013, 02:23 AM   #43
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It's and open ended finale my man. I can be in denial all the I want. And that's just while suspending disbelief.
What is open ended about it? Unlike Inception, the scene does not cut before Bruce (or the prestige if you will) is shown.

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Old 02-19-2013, 12:52 PM   #44
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Can Inception really be open-ended either? We see the token wobbling right before the credits hit.

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Old 02-19-2013, 01:09 PM   #45
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Can Inception really be open-ended either? We see the token wobbling right before the credits hit.
I disagree, what we see is not the token wobbling but the table being perturbed by a gravity shift. Turns out that in the really real world, Stephen bumped Calvin Candie's bed as he was leaving from tucking him in.

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Old 02-19-2013, 01:13 PM   #46
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:23 PM   #47
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:05 PM   #48
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Not to get into an Inception debate here, but whether the totem falls doesn't necessarily even determine with whether the ending is a dream or not. The point of totems wasn't to tell you if you were in a dream or reality, it simply was a guide to help you rule out that you were in someone else's dream. Also, the spinning top (originally Mal's totem) is the only totem that has an abnormal behavior in the dream state. Compare that with Ariadne's totem (the weighted chess pawn), which behaves a certain way in reality that only she's aware of. So it's completely possible that Cobb has merely accepted a dream as his ultimate reality by the film's end (while being in a vegetable state in reality). The top would then fall. Personally I like to think Inception's ending is real, but there's no way for me to definitively prove that.

TDKR's ending on the other hand, is a lot more concrete. A LOT more.

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Old 02-19-2013, 02:13 PM   #49
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So it's completely possible that Cobb has merely accepted a dream as his ultimate reality by the film's end (while being in a vegetable state in reality).
I don't think CObb cared about the totem at the end, which is why he left it without seeing the outcome of the spin. He has accepted a reality, which is the reality to him, regardless of whether it's seen as a dream to anyone else.

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Old 02-19-2013, 02:24 PM   #50
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^ Exactly, which is really the main part of the ending that matters.

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