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Old 02-19-2013, 05:45 PM   #51
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

The whole point of the totem is that if it starts to wobble to fall, it's not a dream, period.

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Old 02-19-2013, 06:16 PM   #52
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

I used to think the same, but I don't think it's so cut and dry now. Without tumbling further down into an Inception analysis rabbit hole...I'll just say again that I prefer the "Cobb is in reality" interpretation, but I think Nolan was definitely going for an ambiguous kind of ending there. In fact Nolan said that he does have his own specific interpretation that he refuses to share because he wants people to have their own.

You could easily write a thesis paper on that ending (and books have indeed been written about the film), so I'll just leave my off-topicness at that, lol.

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Old 02-19-2013, 06:51 PM   #53
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

Y'all talking about Inception?

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:08 PM   #54
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I used to think the same, but I don't think it's so cut and dry now.
Just because it's cut and dry doesn't mean the ending should've been more than what it really is. I feel people overthink with Inception so much that they're looking beyond what we see on film sometimes just because we're dealing with a director like Chris Nolan.

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:17 PM   #55
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

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I used to think the same, but I don't think it's so cut and dry now. Without tumbling further down into an Inception analysis rabbit hole...I'll just say again that I prefer the "Cobb is in reality" interpretation, but I think Nolan was definitely going for an ambiguous kind of ending there. In fact Nolan said that he does have his own specific interpretation that he refuses to share because he wants people to have their own.

You could easily write a thesis paper on that ending (and books have indeed been written about the film), so I'll just leave my off-topicness at that, lol.
Did everyone forget that Cobb's wedding band was his (or the audience's) true totem? I admit, it's really hard to tell there at the end if he has it on or not.

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:19 PM   #56
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Just because it's cut and dry doesn't mean the ending should've been more than what it really is. I feel people overthink with Inception so much that they're looking beyond what we see on film sometimes just because we're dealing with a director like Chris Nolan.
Anno, with all due respect I have to disagree (although yes, some people overthink themselves off a cliff with wild theories). The ending was meant to be ambiguous, Nolan said so himself:

Quote:
“There can’t be anything in the film that tells you one way or another because then the ambiguity at the end of the film would just be a mistake,” he says. “It would represent a failure of the film to communicate something. But it’s not a mistake. I put that cut there at the end, imposing an ambiguity from outside the film. That always felt the right ending to me."
The reason Nolan has the reputation he does and people love to analyze his work is precisely because he does things like that, and he admits it right there that he knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted people to think "beyond the film". But of course, we are also free to not look beyond the film and just take it at face value.

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #57
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But what cut is he talking about? The totem wobbling is a failure on that behalf simply because it's not ambiguous at all, lol.

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:41 PM   #58
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I think essentially, the idea is to spark the age old philosophical question of "what is real?" How do we know life isn't all a dream? Etc. He cuts before we actually get to see the top fall, which would give us closure, instead opting to "incept" the audience with a lingering question. Or perhaps encourage them to take a "leap of faith". If he didn't show a wobble, then it would strongly imply that Cobb was still dreaming. This way, it can be taken either way. That's why I think it's a pretty genius ending. By simply cutting it a few milliseconds earlier he created an entirely different effect. The audience I saw it with erupted with "No!" and "Awwww!" when it cut to black. Wouldn't have happened if the top fell over and we saw and heard it hit the table.

I'm with you though, I believe Cobb is in reality. But I've seen some convincing arguments for the contrary, that's all. Whereas with TDKR I find the "Bruce really died" arguments to be completely stretching it and going against the point of the movie. Unlike Inception, where the ambiguity went hand in hand with the point of the movie.

^ And that right there, is me trying desperately to seem like I'm still on topic. lol

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:51 PM   #59
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I think, to add a stamp on making it ambiguous, we should have never seen it wobble. To question if Cobb is dreaming or this is the reality, it shouldn't have wobbled at all, but the second it starts to, the line is more on this being real and not a dream. But, I don't fault Nolan for that all at because it gives Inception a perfect happy ending, and that's fine.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:15 PM   #60
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Inception's ending is a whole different animal. It's a most ambiguous ending. I think The Dark Knight Rises, to me, is open-ended. That's my view on it. Blake could just as easily be partner to Batman, as well as his successor. Alfred's fantansy was HIS fantasy: Quit it, marry, have kids, blah blah. Now, it's clear that Blake can't work with the police anymore, so that's that; he quits the force. Enter the Batcave, and the assumed discovery of The Batman's arsenal and -cut and fade to black-that's cut and dry. Bruce's destiny is his own choosing (or the audience's in this case) because you simply see him on the table with Selina. That's all we have, and it's open to debate. I'm not trying to impose my view here, merely explaining it. Let's not get our ourselves in a pickle here. Peace.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:20 PM   #61
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^ How does it feel to be on a one-man boat? Lol.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:41 PM   #62
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Default Re: Someone please explain why....

Why would Bruce Wayne would go the trouble of faking his death if he had no intentions of leaving Gotham in the long run, and why he would put Alfred through all of that that if he was only intending to purposefully mislead him about the fact that he had finally moved on with his life?

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:53 PM   #63
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After 28 years, pretty much awesome. You gotta be like the wolf, strong when in solitude and solidary in the pack.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:56 PM   #64
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Why would Bruce Wayne would go the trouble of faking his death if he had no intentions of leaving Gotham in the long run, and why he would put Alfred through all of that that if he was only intending to purposefully mislead him about the fact that he had finally moved on with his life?
Not sure really. Maybe you can help think of something. Bruce Wayne has been known to play things pretty close to the chest Besides, if he really wanted to let Alfred know he was alright, he could have just told him without going to Italy. Although I can understand the dramatic way of letting him know he was alright, given Bruce Wayne's love of theatricality

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:58 PM   #65
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^ How does it feel to be on a one-man boat? Lol.

After 28 years, pretty much awesome. You gotta be like the wolf, strong when in solitude and solidary in the pack.

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:01 PM   #66
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On side note, I think The Dark Knight Rises feels most like a Batman movie out all three films; while retaining the elements that made the first two films successful.

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:05 PM   #67
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Not sure really. Maybe you can help think of something. Bruce Wayne has been known to play things pretty close to the chest Besides, if he really wanted to let Alfred know he was alright, he could have just told him without going to Italy. Although I can understand the dramatic way of letting him know he was alright, given Bruce Wayne's love of theatricality
Well that's just it, he made a big show out of it to give Alfred the closure he deserved. At that point Alfred would have been quite relieved by a simple letter from Bruce saying that he's still alive, even if he still intended to continue being Batman. But Bruce went the extra mile to show him he had moved on. If that was all a load of BS then that would really sour the earned emotion of that final encounter for me.


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On side note, I think The Dark Knight Rises feels most like a Batman movie out all three films; while retaining the elements that made the first two films successful.
I actually agree with that. I know a lot of people put Begins in that slot, but for me too, Rises feels the most like a Batman film through and through. Which is ironic considering how little time he was in costume.

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:22 PM   #68
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Well, Batman isn't really in costume much in the whole trilogy. Has anyone actually calculated the Batman's screen time in the trilogy?

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:42 PM   #69
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Inceptions ambiguous ending is crucial because the point is that Cobb has finally let go of needing a dream world and accepts this world as reality. I would agree that ultimately it iS the real world, but the point is that it's real to Cobb, regardless.

This is not the case with tdkr at all.


And I completely agree about tdkr feeling the most like a batman film, that was my first reaction after my first viewing. I knew I had issues with it, but the epic scope of it was maybe my favorite Batman experience I've ever had. It was like a cinematic version of the best batman graphic novel that doesn't exist.

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Old 02-20-2013, 05:24 PM   #70
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It was like a cinematic version of the best batman graphic novel that doesn't exist.
This. So much this.

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Old 02-20-2013, 08:43 PM   #71
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I think that, aside from the obvious Bat-imagery and references, The Dark Knight Rises feels the most like a Bat-film because at this point we are familiar with this universe. Which is shame as well, because Batman's career was, for lack of a better word, short lived. This of course is a direct result of this franchise's focus on realism or hyper-realism if you will. And even so, Nolan's trilogy has achieved a lot in little time story wise. You got your origin story, you've got Ras Al Ghul, Joker, Scarecrow, Bane, Two-Face, Catwoman Falcone, Maroni, Zsaz <--not sure if spelled correctly. And last but not least, we were given what I think is a most successful amalgam of the three Robins in John Blake, even when Nolan told us that Robin would never make an appearance in his movies and then pulled a 180 on the audience. This makes the trilogy's loose ends and cringe worthy moments invisible, if not forgivable.

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Old 03-04-2013, 08:33 PM   #72
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i wonder how many times Bruce ate at that cafe; in hopes that Alfred would show up. Selina looked kind of annoyed. so i'm guessing it was often.

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Old 03-04-2013, 09:15 PM   #73
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Every day for a month

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Old 03-05-2013, 11:34 AM   #74
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i wonder how many times Bruce ate at that cafe; in hopes that Alfred would show up. Selina looked kind of annoyed. so i'm guessing it was often.
And Nolan got lucky. Can you imagine he captured the exact moment when they were both there ?

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Old 03-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #75
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And Nolan got lucky. Can you imagine he captured the exact moment when they were both there ?
it's even luckier when you consider that Alfred never told Bruce the name of the cafe in his fantasy. heck, i think Bruce might have been sitting at the exact table, even.

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