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Old 08-28-2012, 10:56 PM   #51
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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I still say there's no reason it can't be Lukin *and* Hydra remnants: some portions of Hydra defected to the Soviets after the Red Skull was killed. The Soviets took advantage of these assets. Fast forward a decade or so, and the difference between "Soviet black ops program that has a bunch of ex-Hydra personnel and resources" and "Hydra Reborn, Soviet Union Edition" becomes narrow to the point of irrelevance.
That's exactly what I think.
Zola defects to the Soviet Union, hooks up with Lukin, and the rest is history.

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Old 08-28-2012, 11:38 PM   #52
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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I still say there's no reason it can't be Lukin *and* Hydra remnants: some portions of Hydra defected to the Soviets after the Red Skull was killed. The Soviets took advantage of these assets. Fast forward a decade or so, and the difference between "Soviet black ops program that has a bunch of ex-Hydra personnel and resources" and "Hydra Reborn, Soviet Union Edition" becomes narrow to the point of irrelevance.
That works since at the of WWII, both the US and the USSR were rounding up German scientists to keep them from falling into each other's hands.

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Old 08-29-2012, 08:08 AM   #53
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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That works since at the of WWII, both the US and the USSR were rounding up German scientists to keep them from falling into each other's hands.
Problem is, at the time Zola was in SSR custody. It makes more sense if the Americans had him, especially since he was the only one who had worked with the Tesseract before.

Of course, it could be that the US swapped Zola for someone else.

Or here's a thought. The US swaps Zola for Bucky Barnes, only Bucky is already brainwashed and so he assassinates Chester Philips and runs away back to the USSR.

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Old 08-29-2012, 08:45 AM   #54
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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Problem is, at the time Zola was in SSR custody. It makes more sense if the Americans had him, especially since he was the only one who had worked with the Tesseract before.

Of course, it could be that the US swapped Zola for someone else.

Or here's a thought. The US swaps Zola for Bucky Barnes, only Bucky is already brainwashed and so he assassinates Chester Philips and runs away back to the USSR.

Like I said earlier: just have Zola defect from the US and join the Soviets.

Although I like your spy swap idea, too....except instead of Bucky, how 'bout they swap Zola for Natasha Romanoff?

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Old 08-29-2012, 09:59 AM   #55
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

If we see Zemo, I'd prefer he be the likable version.

That scene from "Born Better" where he rejects the nazi ideals was brilliantly written.

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Old 08-29-2012, 02:37 PM   #56
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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Problem is, at the time Zola was in SSR custody. It makes more sense if the Americans had him, especially since he was the only one who had worked with the Tesseract before.

Of course, it could be that the US swapped Zola for someone else.

Or here's a thought. The US swaps Zola for Bucky Barnes, only Bucky is already brainwashed and so he assassinates Chester Philips and runs away back to the USSR.
But I thought that Col. Phillips and SSR were going to give him amnesty in like Switzerland if he gave any information on Red Skull's plans. If they did do this, then it's entirely feasible that Zola could have found his way into working for the Soviets.

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Old 08-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #57
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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But I thought that Col. Phillips and SSR were going to give him amnesty in like Switzerland if he gave any information on Red Skull's plans. If they did do this, then it's entirely feasible that Zola could have found his way into working for the Soviets.
It's also entirely feasible that he defected to the USSR, as I said, or was part of a spy swap with the USSR, like Bull said.

Any way you slice it, it wouldn't be hard to make Zola work for the Soviets at all.

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Old 08-29-2012, 04:09 PM   #58
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Never mind. I realized what I was gonna say was in fact what I thought I disagreed with.


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Old 09-06-2012, 08:38 PM   #59
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Zemo seems like the obvious choice since the Red Skull was transported to one of the other nine realms by the cosmic cube.

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Old 09-06-2012, 11:22 PM   #60
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

They did set up the Red Skull to reappear in another Marvel Cinematic story, it doesn't strike me he would reappear in the Winter Solider which is ok with me but it would be great to see him in another Captain America sequel or Avengers film..right now with Winter Solider being so early in production idk who to even guess to be pulling buckys strings...I want it to be Zemo but it mores logical to be Zola since he was orginal one to start experimenting with him..right now a lot of phase II is so cloudy and confusing I look forward to the winter of next year since majority or Phase II will have hit screens or will be filmed 4/6 ( they are how many movies to phase II so far six right? Well that we know of lol)

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Old 09-07-2012, 03:31 AM   #61
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

I figure the story arc should be about the red skull. But essentially the second movie doesnt have to have him in it.

The villians should be done in the same vain as the first hellboy movie. You have Red Skull supporters who go about trying to ressurect him or doing his work in his abence. In the hellboy movie it starts off with the rasputine supporters ressurecting rasputine with Captain America movie it should be about the supporters who are trying to locate the red skull. Id make it a female villian with Winter Soilder and some weird scientist. im not to familiar with the back story for captain america so not sure who to suggest.

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:04 PM   #62
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

I'd like to retain the Cold War emphasis in this so I hope Lukin and the Soviets are featured. As far as the big bad I could go with whoever. I do feel like they should give the Red Skull a pass this round, maybe bring him bag if there's a third Cap film.

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #63
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Who should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings...?

Puppet Master.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:30 PM   #64
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

What about the Corporation with ties to Hydra?

WWII ends the allies divide up the assets. Russia moves in and discovers Hydra research on the Winter Soldier project started by Zemo. In the years that follow Bucky acts as an agent for Russia under Zemo, until something happens, and he goes into hiding, coma, stasis, or some other comic appropriate time delay. After the cold war and Russia's fall, Hyrdra reforms as the Corporation run by Lukin, the same as the SSR becomes SHEILD. The Corporation could even have holdings which include AIM as a public front (hence IM3). Following the events of the Avengers Lukin finds out Cap is back and revives the Winter Soldier project. They could also introduce Veda as a contrast to Carter.

The questions are though: What's the villians motivation now that the cube is safely in Odin's Vault? Why get Cap involved? What's the next big thing in the Marvel Universe that could bring back the Skull or motivate something?

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:18 PM   #65
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

I'd like to see Zemo and Zola runing things,
but I've also been thinking....

If they can pull it off and make her intimidating, I could totally see Sin as running Hydra with Crossbones as her right hand man, and Zola as the brains. Here's why I wouldn't necessarily mind that idea:

-First female Big Bad in a Marvel movie, we needs variety
-Keeps Red Skull's legacy front and center
-Twisted love/relationship with Crossbones
-she could eventually get her face removed like in the comics, after all, Red Skull's look was one of the best things in the last movie, and Cap doesn't really have the coolest looking bad guys

I'm still hopeful for Zemo, but I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel wanted to go with a little more estrogen-filled evil this time around

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:10 PM   #66
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

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I'd like to see Zemo and Zola runing things,
but I've also been thinking....

If they can pull it off and make her intimidating, I could totally see Sin as running Hydra with Crossbones as her right hand man, and Zola as the brains. Here's why I wouldn't necessarily mind that idea:

-First female Big Bad in a Marvel movie, we needs variety
-Keeps Red Skull's legacy front and center
-Twisted love/relationship with Crossbones
-she could eventually get her face removed like in the comics, after all, Red Skull's look was one of the best things in the last movie, and Cap doesn't really have the coolest looking bad guys

I'm still hopeful for Zemo, but I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel wanted to go with a little more estrogen-filled evil this time around
I'm not gonna 100% rule out the possibility that Vancamp may be playing a femme fatale instead of Sharon, in which case Sin, Diamondback or Viper/Madame Hydra could be logical choices for a "love interest" who is also Cap's antagonist. In fact, as I posted earlier, it makes a little bit of sense, in that they might have been gunning for Vancamp to play a vengeful woman scorned, like her TV character.

Smart money's still on Sharon, but I'd consider a femme fatale as a dark horse for EVC.

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Old 02-20-2013, 06:52 PM   #67
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

I really hope Van Camp isn't playing any of these other characters though. They manage to get someone who looks very similar to Sharon and then use her for a different character? That would be just like Emma Stone as Gwen instead of MJ.

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Old 02-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #68
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

I'm not saying Vancamp to play Sin
I think she'll be Sharon
But it could work to have Sin be the antagonist
Make her like Silva in the latest Bond or Jeremy-Irons-Gruber in Die Hard with a Vengeance
creepy intimidating bad guy with a grudge

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Old 02-21-2013, 12:48 PM   #69
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Here is an idea.

The Soviets find him and make him into the Winter Soldier, using him from the fifties to the eighties. Late in the Cold War, with the USSR beginning to come apart, an East German spy called Heinrich Zemo gains control of the Winter Soldier, and after the fall of the Berlin wall, goes to business for himself, using the Winter Soldier as his personal assassin to gain wealth and power. Later on, his son, Helmut, takes over.

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Old 02-21-2013, 01:46 PM   #70
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

I think either Strucker or Zemo being the master mind behind Winter Soldier probably works best. Plus, next to Red Skull, they're 2 of Cap's best villains.

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Old 03-06-2013, 04:38 AM   #71
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

In Brubaker's comic series, wasn't Aleksander Lukin somewhat Red Skull in disguise or something from a later reveal if I remember correctly? Perhaps that could be a tease leading into CA3.

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Old 03-06-2013, 08:08 AM   #72
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Red Skull was in Lukin's body with Lukin

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Old 03-06-2013, 08:40 AM   #73
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Lukin was Lukin, and then he sent Winter Soldier kill the Red Skull in the first issues, only because Skull was holding the cube, his soul was sucked into it, and when later Lukin began using the cube, the Red Skull's soul moved into his body.

COMICS!

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Old 03-06-2013, 10:29 AM   #74
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

Haha, I love the Winter Soldier run, but that Red Skull plot device in the comics, and later when they try to explain Steve coming back from the dead
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Or rather trapped in time, by a time portal ray gun or whatever
is one of the reasons I'm glad they kind of depowered the cube in the MCU. I love my comics, but some times its better to stay in the comics.

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Old 03-06-2013, 04:57 PM   #75
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Default Re: What villain should be pulling Winter Soldier's strings?

The lack of any casting news that could potentially pertain to Zemo makes me wonder if Zola will be the one doing it.

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