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Old 02-22-2013, 06:09 AM   #151
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Then I guess you didn't pay attention. The movies made it pretty clear that Scott was their field leader.
And I know you're not actually paying attention to a damn thing I'm saying. For the third time, these elements may be established in the films, but they're done in such an unsatisfying manner that people feel they're essentially non existent. And you can talk about Avengers all you want, but no one criticizes Captain America's or Thor's roles like they do Cyclops



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And when he left the team...its because he thought she was dead.

And when they had a romance...it was under Scott's nose.
Thank you for repeating what I just told you as if I didnt understand.



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The movies pretty clearly did so as well.
In your opinion.



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So none of the characters in the X-Men franchise were "awesome"?
Trying reading what I said. I said Star Wars tried to make much of their characters awesome, for lack of a better word. That dosen't imply that I think that Wolverine is the only impressive character in the films.



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How was he undermined from the start?

I feel that Jim Caviezel was right when he passed on the role. The only times they felt like doing anything significant character wise is in regards to his relationship with Wolverine and Jean. Again....this is only my opinion on the matter.



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"It feels nonexistent"? Thatís absolute nonsense.
To you. And I'm sure the Batboards feel the same way about your posts when you go over there to criticize TDKR.



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No, it's a mark of people's inability to properly interpret a film and remember the specifics of a film.
Once again...that's your opinion.



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Scott isnít defined with his relationship with Wolverine, either...what's your point?
I feel that film Cyclops is. That's my point. How you feel about that does not matter to me.



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Then again...you weren't paying attention. At all.
Then again...that's your assumption.

"He dosen't agree with me, so he wasn't paying attention!" Please.

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And if she was with Scott in part because he was dependable? So what?

YOUR opinion is that she was with Scott "in part" because of his dependability.

I believe that that was the ONLY reason she was with Scott. Or, it could be interpreted that way, because their relationship was not done in a satisfying manner.

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Old 02-22-2013, 07:12 AM   #152
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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I'm going to have to rewatch X2. It's my favourite X-men movie but in terms of the ensemble, I remember Rogue, Prof X, Storm, Cyclops (as usual) being shortchanged. But Iceman, Pyro, and Jean did get more.

And I disagree about Famke - she probably got her best material of all in X3 (playing what is essentially a schizophrenic character and taking out Prof X). She does so many "turns" in the med lab scene with Logan that I'm sure Famke must have been satisfied with it. The problem is that her character turned catatonic in the second act after setting Phoenix up as a significant character.

Yes, Kitty doesn't have a storyline, but she still has more to do than the previous incarnations of Kitty in X1 & X2. Storm's role is of absolutely no substance in X3, but we at least get a bit more of her personality.

Definitely not arguing that I like X3 though, but I do feel it was more of an ensemble movie.
Definitely do rewatch. It surprised me how many good little character moments the characters actually received especially Storm, whose scene with Nightcrawler alone, is more significant and telling than any of the screentime lavished on her in X3. And Rogue certainly gets better material in X2, when X3 amounts to her seeing Iceman/Kitty, deciding to get a cure, and coming back cured - which is a slap in the face to her journey.

See, I can't agree that she got better material/a better character arc when, as you say yourself, she turns catatonic. Yes, she may have got more of a chance to have some proper dramatic scenes near the start of that film, but they did very little justice to the character of Jean/Phoenix herself. She may not have got the chance to play a schizophrenic character in X2, but she certainly plays a more rounded, well written one with a proper journey.

Shadowcat was never intended as anything more than a cameo in X1 and X2, so her situation isn't comparable. They still let her down in X3, at a point where they should have been properly introducing her to the core team.

I do agree that Cyclops and Professor X, were shortchanged in X2. But I'd say the same of both in X3 too. Prof X may have got a 'spectacle moment' with Jean but it's a very lacking role IMO.

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Old 02-22-2013, 07:56 AM   #153
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/2...men-last-stand

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IGN: One thing that’s interesting about the alternate universe/timeline in Days of Future Past is that it could potentially give you the opportunity to revisit things that happened in the third film in terms of characters and endings that you might like to see changed.

Bryan Singer: You mean, what you’re politely saying is, “fix s**t.” Is that what you’re saying? That’s what I’m hearing. [Laughing]

IGN: [Laughing] Maybe…

Singer: There’s going to be a little of that, a few things I can repair.

IGN: Are fans going to be pleased with these things you will be repairing?

Singer: I think so, I think so, yes.
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IGN: As a fan of this world too, though, do you want to see Scott and Jean return? Because it’s what everyone is thinking. That we want to see them return, you know?

Singer: Who wouldn’t? Who wouldn’t? [Laughing] That’s all I can say.

IGN: [Laughing] Fair enough.

The good news is that we’re all on the same page!
i wouldn't lose faith at the idea of cyclops and jean returning after Singer said this =)

it may not happen this film but who knows it sounds like a return is very very possible

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:26 AM   #154
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Just remember, Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn also said that people would be please with Cyclops' role in X3.

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:41 AM   #155
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

That was part of Fox's efforts to outright lie to fans to get them to pay to see Last Stand.

Rothman Is gone and It's not In Bryan Singer's habit to go lie to people doing Interviews.

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 AM   #156
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Either way, all we know is that Singer wants to see them return...dosen't mean he'll get around to bringing them back in the film.

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:50 AM   #157
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Why is he doing this to us? It's creating all this controversy and speculation and if it all ends with no cyclops.....my excitement is going to go way way down, just let us know already lol what is it gonna take? Why all the secrecy? Tell us now!!!

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:51 AM   #158
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Old 02-22-2013, 10:03 AM   #159
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Oh dear...I remember the 'Cyclops comes back at the end!!" farce with X3. Don't think I wanna get involved in a repeat of that.

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Old 02-22-2013, 12:01 PM   #160
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Just remember, Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn also said that people would be please with Cyclops' role in X3.
And that Rogue would "kick ass" o.o"

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:39 PM   #161
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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I do agree that Cyclops and Professor X, were shortchanged in X2. But I'd say the same of both in X3 too. Prof X may have got a 'spectacle moment' with Jean but it's a very lacking role IMO.
Definitely disagree with the Prof X statement. X3 showed us a darker side of Prof X, putting mental blocks in Jean's head without her being aware. That little development alone is far more than anything he did in X2. It actually gave Prof X a bit of edge.

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:35 PM   #162
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Charles had a pivotal/pretty decent role on X2, even if he was under Striker's control.

Charles appeared during the whole movie, while Scott dissapeared on the first act, to reappear at the end.

Different cases

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Old 02-22-2013, 04:56 PM   #163
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Professor X's depiction in X3 was embarrassing. I rank that scene in the lab with Wolverine was one of the worst of the entire franchise.

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:12 PM   #164
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Why?

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:49 PM   #165
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I thought his scenes with Storm were dreadful. He just seemed like a different person than from X1-2. It may have been Patrick giving up

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Old 02-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #166
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

yeah, in some scenes Professor X came off as a bit of a prick in X3 which was totally out of character

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Old 02-22-2013, 08:24 PM   #167
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

They consciously wanted to depict Xavier with shades of grey, just like in the comics. But why the frick did they want to do it out of the blue in the trilogy when the other two movies didn't characterize him that way, and right before he died? Such a poorly written and thought out movie.

My heart skipped a beat when I saw the headline on the hype's main page. But I'd prefer real confirmation dangit!!

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Old 02-22-2013, 08:46 PM   #168
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

I know...I'm just waiting too for confirmation. maybe in the next two months

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Old 02-22-2013, 10:25 PM   #169
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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I thought his scenes with Storm were dreadful. He just seemed like a different person than from X1-2. It may have been Patrick giving up
His scene before he met Storm at the balcony was awful. He was teaching to his students, making jokes that Einstein wasn't a mutant. Then when the sky became dark because of Storm, he had this sudden reaction like "what the hell just happened". It was just so forced.

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Old 02-22-2013, 11:13 PM   #170
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/2...men-last-stand





i wouldn't lose faith at the idea of cyclops and jean returning after Singer said this =)

it may not happen this film but who knows it sounds like a return is very very possible
Unless they can pull off something interesting, I don't mind if Jean stayed dead/out of the film......but I want to see Cyke, he's my favorite X-Man.

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Old 02-22-2013, 11:29 PM   #171
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Definitely disagree with the Prof X statement. X3 showed us a darker side of Prof X, putting mental blocks in Jean's head without her being aware. That little development alone is far more than anything he did in X2. It actually gave Prof X a bit of edge.
Agreed.

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His scene before he met Storm at the balcony was awful. He was teaching to his students, making jokes that Einstein wasn't a mutant. Then when the sky became dark because of Storm, he had this sudden reaction like "what the hell just happened". It was just so forced.
I can't help but feel that scene was added "after the fact." I remember sitting in the theater thinking, "Well damn, if their efforts to give Halle Berry more screen time aren't just super-obvious now!"

It was like, "Whatever the hell you're doing, DROP IT, and come roll your ass out here and see me on the balcony BECAUSE I AM HALLE BERRY, OSCAR-WINNING ACTRESS AND I NEEDSSS SOME ATTENTION, DAMN IT!!!!"

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Old 02-23-2013, 06:44 AM   #172
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

yeah, that Charles reaction was so unrealistic.

so Storm changed the weather, so what? its not like she was screaming or being attacked

it was a forced scene, definetly

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Old 02-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #173
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

You guys are crazy.
Your hate of x3 is causing you to overanalyze things.
I like xavier in x3. Way more interesting than the other two films. Same with Cyke, despite his limited time.
None of those scenes felt forced to me.
Want 'forced'? Try Bobby 'coming out' in X2. Now that's forced.

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Old 02-23-2013, 10:44 AM   #174
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

Losing a little hope about Cyclops returning. Read about an hour ago that Marsden just signed on for Anchorman 2 which starts shooting in March. Doesn't dofp start in April? If he's in it, i'm now betting it'll just be at the end.

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Old 02-23-2013, 11:40 AM   #175
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate

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Losing a little hope about Cyclops returning. Read about an hour ago that Marsden just signed on for Anchorman 2 which starts shooting in March. Doesn't dofp start in April? If he's in it, i'm now betting it'll just be at the end.
him showing up at the end is better than him not showing up at all.

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