Bryan Singer Directing X-Men: Days of Future Past - Part 3

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by JP

Meanwhile Quinto remains the breakout character/star of that film. Not unlike Fassbender.

Okay. And what is your point? Fassbender was nowhere near the stardom that Quinto had already achieved going into Star Trek, so...

Originally Posted by JP

Also DoFP cast isn't even 1x the size of First Class yet, much less 3...

Way to go literal JP. Let's not split hairs...I clearly said "perhaps" ergo the term "3x" being used to signify that the cast will be much larger than what it was in FC. We all know there won't be 30 mutants as main characters in this next film.

But this film's scope--and the size of its cast--is ambitious and will be larger than FC's, and you know it, so don't even front.

Originally Posted by Mrs. Vimes

Considering how much input Singer had in the First Class though, I don't think he'd be as territorial about someone "upstaging" his casting choice as you think.

Um, who said anything about Bryan Singer being territorial? I said he'd ensure that there'd be a balance. Ian, Hugh and Patrick are not coming back as cameos. They are main characters and since Fassbender clearly will have a big role in the film, it's certainly plausible that Ian does too.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

Let me just say this: I seriously doubt they are going to waste that much tested talent (Stewart, McKellan, Jackman, Paquin, etc.,) in lieu of giving more focus to actors who are just now building names for themselves. It doesn't make sense, even for a marketing perspective, but especially for storyline.

Let me just say this: Fassbender, Lawrence, and McAvoy ARE tested talent. Anna Paquin is not what I would call "talent". Also, when was the last time "talent" was the primary factor in determining an actor's desirability? There are plenty of talentless hacks who are in big demand, and plenty of incredibly talented people who are overlooked. In terms of marketability and popularity, which is what ACTUALLY matters to Hollywood, Lawrence has just as much as Jackman at the moment, arguably more than Stewart (and infinitely more than Paquin, Ashmore, or Page). She may have risen to fame very, very recently, but Oscar or not she is smoking EVERYONE at the moment.

And it DOES make sense. When was the last old X-Men movie? EIGHT years ago, by the time this film hits theatres. X3 was a pretty conclusive end to the trilogy; no one was scrambling for more after its conclusive ending and terrible execution. First Class will be the freshest movie in their mind of the X-Men, and the one that had the most open-ended potential. It was also a hundred times better than X3, which means people are looking forward to the second installment of something they felt positively towards, rather than the sequel to something people still rank as being one of the worst superhero movies ever made.

I love Jennifer Lawrence. And depending on what happens tonight at the Oscars will determine much for her "star". But she's playing MYSTIQUE for Christ's sake. And this is an ensemble film. Anyone expecting her or Fassbender to suddenly overshadow certified A-Listers playing major X-Men protagonists is deluding themselves. Even Halle Berry didn't see a huge expansion of her character in X2 after winning her Oscar---and she was playing a main X-Men heroine.

Um, Fassbender and Lawrence ARE A-listers. And they're not overthrowing anyone. This movie was from the start a First Class sequel that expanded to include the old cast, not the other way around. And reminder, Singer has stated that MOST of the movie takes place in the past. As Mrs Vimes said, unless the whole old cast travels back in time (which would leave no one to fight the sentinels), this means the people getting the focus will be--you guessed it-- the First Class team! Yaaay!

This is hardly about "respect". It is about characterization and storyline. May I remind you that Fassbender and Lawrence are playing "the bad guys"?? Audiences don't root for the bad guys, remember? All of the big stars returning from the trilogy (with the exception of Ian) are playing who? THE GOOD GUYS. Now, where do you think an already dedicated movie fanbase's loyalties will lie, seriously??

People root for whoever they darn well want to, thank you very much. Villains are still characters (OEMGEE no waiii) and Fassbender's Magneto in particular is one of the most interesting villains to hit the screen in decades. First Class did such a good job of greying out the black and white good and evil cliches that many people actually wondered which side they would have chosen at the end of First Class. Audiences DO root for the badguys. If Fassbender and Lawrence were playing the good guys and James McAvoy the villain it would generate the same amount of interest. Personally I found all the old heroes returning to this movie (Iceman, Kitty, Rogue, old!ProfX) to be pretty 2-dimensional and boring. Old Mags is the best of the bunch and he's... dare I say it... a VILLAIN!

To Mrs. Vimes point, we have not seen a script yet. That's true. But if you put Sir Ian McKellan (who has THREE X-films under his belt plus Hobbit and everything else) in a scene with Michael Fassbender (who is a newcomer that has done one spin-off X-film seen by far less people) who do you think is more likely to "drive"? We all know that even if Ian McKellan is in the back-seat, he is merely being chauffeured.

Master > Protégé.

No, they'd both hold their own quite well. Just because Fassbender is new and doesn't have a bunch of blockbusters under his belt (or a "Sir" to his name) doesn't mean he's not oozing talent. He's a very different Magneto than Sir Ian's and will play his version of it. Neither one will dominate because they're both impossibly talented.

Never forget who the main audience for this film actually is. People have short term memories for films. If DOFP makes the very fatal mistake of trying to pump up the old cast and downplay the new, I don't think ordinary folks are going to be as eager to hit the theatres when this comes out. They've got to be extremely careful how they play this, if FOX is so delusional that it thinks DOFP can compete with Hobbit 3. They want to be encouraging people to see this movie, not alienating them. And promoting the old cast over the newer, fresher, younger, more current faces is a definite shot in the foot.

Okay. And what is your point? Fassbender was nowhere near the stardom that Quinto had already achieved going into Star Trek, so...

Wait are you suggesting Quinto was more popular going into ST than Fassbender is going into DOFP?

....you're joking, right?

[ThePowerCosmic]

With all this talk about who else is going to be on the team, I wonder who will be in the Brotherhood.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

With all this talk about who else is going to be on the team, I wonder who will be in the Brotherhood.

As much as JJ's portrayal sucked, I wouldn't mind Emma returning. Maybe we could finally get that telepath battle.

[Mrs Vimes]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

Fassbender was nowhere near the stardom that Quinto had already achieved going into Star Trek, so...

I can safely say I had no clue who the heck Quinto was before I saw Star Trek. I only learned about his role in Heroes afterwards - I've never watched the show.

People often seem to think that TV and movies are interchangeable, but they're really not.

And as lovely Leonard Nimoy's appearance in Star Trek 09 was, his role was nowhere near as big as young Spock's. If that's the kind of balance Singer is going for in DoFP, McKellen's role is definitely going to be minor to Fassbender's.

[Duran Man]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

With all this talk about who else is going to be on the team, I wonder who will be in the Brotherhood.

I'd like for Azazel, Riptide, and Emma Frost to return, and for Azazel and Riptide to say a bit more.

[marvelrobbins]

Star Trek 2009 Isn't a fair compassion to DOFP.The entire team behind It was completly new.Leonard Nimoy was just about only connection to pre Star Trek 2009.

It had one classic veteran.DOFP has at least 6 from Original trilogy.

Leonary Nimoy was In basiclly 5 scenes of film
1:Finding Chris Pine and telling him what has happened
2:Appearing In flashbacks
3:Him and Pine find SImon Pegg
4:His scene with Zachary Quonto
5:Showing up at end of cermonary

plus doing the trek voiceover at end.

It's very doudtful the returning cast members would only be In around 5 scenes In future and Patrick Stewert doing voice over at begining.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

I can safely say I had no clue who the heck Quinto was before I saw Star Trek. I only learned about his role in Heroes afterwards - I've never watched the show.

People often seem to think that TV and movies are interchangeable, but they're really not.

Exactly. That's why I don't get this talk of Anna Paquin as an A-lister. Not everyone watches True Blood, and not everyone who does actually likes her portrayal of the main character.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

Okay. And what is your point? Fassbender was nowhere near the stardom that Quinto had already achieved going into Star Trek, so...

Is that so? Quinto had Heroes. A short lived NBC drama that, like most NBC shows, was watched by nobody.

Fassbender had critical buzz from Inglorious Basterdz and Shame.

I'd say they were about the same.

[marvelrobbins]

jesus attacking everyone who was involved In original much.Anna Paquin Is oscar winning actress who has gotten much aclaim for True Blood.I don't see how you can just dismiss Anna an dnot call her talent.

[marvelrobbins]

Originally Posted by JP

Is that so? Quinto had Heroes. A short lived NBC drama that, like most NBC shows, was watched by nobody.

Fassbender had critical buzz from Inglorious Basterdz and Shame.

I'd say they were about the same.

Heroes lasted 4 seasons.I am not saying It's same as Fassbender critical
buzz.And Heroes had a lot watching In it's first and best season.

[JP]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Heroes lasted 4 seasons.I am not saying It's same as Fassbender critical
buzz.And Heroes had a lot watching In it's first and best season.

It's first and best season that Quinto was barely apart of!

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by JP

It's first and best season that Quinto was barely apart of!

Yep, they even had OTHER people playing his role for the first 8 eps! ;P

[marvelrobbins]

Well he was villain of the season and that Is argurbly the season that made best use of
him.After that they never knew what to do with his character.Heroes helped get him attention to be considered for Spock.There was reason he was first role cast for film.People forget him and Leonard nimoy were first ones announced.Being on TV shows help.Why else do you think Emily VanCamp won the female role In Captain America:The Winter Soldier.Especilly when she had never done a film till now.Revenge helped get her considered.Same with Quonto.Heroes was a very watched show In It's first season.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Well he was villain of the season and that Is argurbly the season that made best use of
him.After that they never knew what to do with his character.Heroes helped get him attention to be considered for Spock.There was reason he was first role cast for film.People forget him and Leonard nimoy were first ones announced.Being on TV shows help.Why else do you think Emily VanCamp won the female role In Captain America:The Winter Soldier.Especilly when she had never done a film till now.Revenge helped get her considered.Same with Quonto.Heroes was a very watched show In It's first season.

People from TV usually get picked because someone involved in the movie is a fan. I don't think her popularity as an actress has anything to do with it. I actually had to look her up, never heard of anything she's done.

[EnDz0n3]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

If DOFP makes the very fatal mistake of trying to pump up the old cast and downplay the new, I don't think ordinary folks are going to be as eager to hit the theatres when this comes out. They've got to be extremely careful how they play this, if FOX is so delusional that it thinks DOFP can compete with Hobbit 3. They want to be encouraging people to see this movie, not alienating them. And promoting the old cast over the newer, fresher, younger, more current faces is a definite shot in the foot.

Ok I gotta question how you came up with that? How is showing more of the OT characters somehow "fatal" to the franchise when the ONE movie the FC characters were featured on, it was the lowest grossing movie in the franchise (domestically).

Wait are you suggesting Quinto was more popular going into ST than Fassbender is going into DOFP?

....you're joking, right?

Yea got to agree with this. Quinto was just a TV actor known for playing heroes pretty much. Even now, he still has TV stench on him

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Let me just say this: Fassbender, Lawrence, and McAvoy ARE tested talent. Anna Paquin is not what I would call "talent". Also, when was the last time "talent" was the primary factor in determining an actor's desirability? There are plenty of talentless hacks who are in big demand, and plenty of incredibly talented people who are overlooked. In terms of marketability and popularity, which is what ACTUALLY matters to Hollywood, Lawrence has just as much as Jackman at the moment, arguably more than Stewart (and infinitely more than Paquin, Ashmore, or Page). She may have risen to fame very, very recently, but Oscar or not she is smoking EVERYONE at the moment.

Jennifer Lawrence is smoking Hugh Jackman? Patrick Stewart? Paquin already has her Oscar and has not been idle. These actors have commanded blockbuster franchises and revered television series for decades. She is nowhere near their star power. No. Where. Let's not oversell this young lady, m'kay? She's beautiful and gifted but...not quite there yet.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

And it DOES make sense. When was the last old X-Men movie? EIGHT years ago, by the time this film hits theatres. X3 was a pretty conclusive end to the trilogy; no one was scrambling for more after its conclusive ending and terrible execution. First Class will be the freshest movie in their mind of the X-Men, and the one that had the most open-ended potential. It was also a hundred times better than X3, which means people are looking forward to the second installment of something they felt positively towards, rather than the sequel to something people still rank as being one of the worst superhero movies ever made.

That's your opinion and I certainly respect it. But I also disagree and think you are seriously overestimating First Class' appeal. Box office receipts don't lie my friend.

There is a specific reason why FOX and Bryan are bringing back the classic actors into this film alongside the FC cast: It's because they NEED IT. And some of us need to recognize that. One of the biggest gripes among fans with FC was its lack of star power and it's pretty clear the studio is addressing that. Points to consider:

1.) If FOX and Co. were so confident in this "A-List" star power you claim is possessed by Fassbender, Lawrence, etc., they would be making a straight FC sequel now, not a crossover hybrid.

2.) Box office receipts, box office receipts, box office receipts. First Class underperformed the first X-film from 13 years ago even with inflation adjustment. And I'm sure you'll blame X3 for that too, but er uh, as you said, significant time had passed between the films, right? Besides, if Lawrence and Fassbender were such A-Listers why couldn't they garner the same audience on their own merits with this "fresh take" as you put it?

You can't have it both ways.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Um, Fassbender and Lawrence ARE A-listers.

You think so? I'm not sure I'd give them both that moniker just yet. I'd say they're more rising stars and for Jennifer Lawrence I think hers will be bonafide pending tonight's outcome at the Oscars. The buzz around her reminds me of Ellen Page's turn with Hard Candy.

But no one here is questioning their talent. I am the biggest Fassbender fan (I have ALL of his stuff). But I'm not blind to say somehow he's eclipsing anyone like Hugh Jackman. I'm just saying it's foolhardy to assume that the producers are going to waste all of the tested talent they have invested with Hugh, Anna, Shawn, Patrick and Ian. They are reuniting with their director. They are not going to be on the sidelines.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

People root for whoever they darn well want to, thank you very much. Villains are still characters (OEMGEE no waiii) and Fassbender's Magneto in particular is one of the most interesting villains to hit the screen in decades. First Class did such a good job of greying out the black and white good and evil cliches that many people actually wondered which side they would have chosen at the end of First Class. Audiences DO root for the badguys. If Fassbender and Lawrence were playing the good guys and James McAvoy the villain it would generate the same amount of interest. Personally I found all the old heroes returning to this movie (Iceman, Kitty, Rogue, old!ProfX) to be pretty 2-dimensional and boring. Old Mags is the best of the bunch and he's... dare I say it... a VILLAIN!

Take note of what I highlighted above. Therein lies your position on this matter and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with being biased against the returning cast. But for some, like me, a stronger film will be generated from their inclusion with this FC class.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

No, they'd both hold their own quite well. Just because Fassbender is new and doesn't have a bunch of blockbusters under his belt

Wait, I thought you said he was an "A-Lister"??

Originally Posted by blueserenity

He's a very different Magneto than Sir Ian's and will play his version of it. Neither one will dominate because they're both impossibly talented.

And your point is? No one said they weren't both talented. The point was (at least the one I made) was that balance would be necessary and that this film would be about saving the future. Therefore, there will be multiple POVs in this project but in many respects I think the FCs are going to be supporting cast for the original trilogy members.

Let's be very honest here: the biggest star of this franchise is Hugh Jackman--not Fassbender, McAvoy, or Lawrence. They are all newbies to this franchise. Talented? Yes. But newbies. And I strongly believe they may take a back-seat a bit for the return of the Original Actors. Now what do the facts show?

1.) FOX has consistently proven for over a decade now that their main focus will always be Wolverine featuring The X-Men. He has two solo films, two origin films, etc. They even inserted him as a cameo in FC for no reason.

2.) Do you honestly believe that things will suddenly change with this original trilogy member--and the franchise's main face--taking top billing in this film? If Storm, Cyclops, Jean, Xavier--hell everyone else--can take a backseat to Logan in the original trilogy films WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN DAYS OF FUTURE PAST?

Does that scare you?

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Never forget who the main audience for this film actually is. People have short term memories for films. If DOFP makes the very fatal mistake of trying to pump up the old cast and downplay the new, I don't think ordinary folks are going to be as eager to hit the theatres when this comes out.

Are you sure about that? Again, what do the box office receipts show? That would suggest that FC wasn't quite as popular as some seem to believe. It'd be a gamble for FOX to put all of its eggs in that one basket again. Clearly they aren't. The original trilogy films didn't have such problems with their box office numbers. But somehow, I think you know this already.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

They've got to be extremely careful how they play this, if FOX is so delusional that it thinks DOFP can compete with Hobbit 3. They want to be encouraging people to see this movie, not alienating them.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

And promoting the old cast over the newer, fresher, younger, more current faces is a definite shot in the foot.

Disagreed. This production didn't get real buzz until news of the return of Bryan Singer and the original cast hit the waves. Google it. Every comic and movie chatroom is debating which cast members are coming back or not. All of the articles are debating it. It's all the interviewers are asking Bryan about. I haven't exactly heard anyone inquire about McAvoy, have you?

Again, you're totally underestimating the appeal of the original cast coming back. It's not a shot in the foot, it's a much-needed shot in the arm.

Wait are you suggesting Quinto was more popular going into ST than Fassbender is going into DOFP?

....you're joking, right?

No, we were referring to Fassbender going into FC. Quinto was the face of Heroes prior to Star Trek. And Quinto certainly was the bigger star pre-Star Trek compared to Fassbender.

[Mrs Vimes]

And another point about "master" vs. "apprentice". There's a good reason why an "apprentice" type character traditionally has more screentime than "master" - this kind of character actually has the room for growth and change. Whereas the "master" kind of character is a pretty much finished work. Star Trek 09 is a prime example of that.

Of course Magneto's arc has been thoroughly explored in First Class, but he is still a work in progress, alongside the rest of the First Class characters.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

I can safely say I had no clue who the heck Quinto was before I saw Star Trek. I only learned about his role in Heroes afterwards - I've never watched the show.

Honestly, I had never watched his show either, Mrs. Vimes. But I knew who he was. I had heard more about him than Fassbender. I didn't get into Fassbender until I had learned of his casting for Magneto...then I went and bought all of his stuff to get acquainted

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

People often seem to think that TV and movies are interchangeable, but they're really not.

Star power is star power. A household name is a household name. Patrick Stewart had done far more theater than Hugh Jackman going into 2000's X-Men. But I don't think even you would argue that he was the bigger star having led eight years of arguably the most popular Star Trek series ever. These studios want face and name recognition for their flagship properties. They've got more of it with the original actors. That's not a slight against the FCers, it's just what it is. LOL

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

And as lovely Leonard Nimoy's appearance in Star Trek 09 was, his role was nowhere near as big as young Spock's. If that's the kind of balance Singer is going for in DoFP, McKellen's role is definitely going to be minor to Fassbender's.

Perhaps. Time will tell. But remember, Ian will be coming off of another blockbuster in Hobbit. Why would they give him a minor role? Again, these "older actors" haven't been sitting on asses twiddling thumbs. They have been dominating everywhere and FOX will market that to their benefit.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

Of course Magneto's arc has been thoroughly explored in First Class

I look forward to the day when FOX realizes this about Wolverine. I am so sick of seeing his face. LOL

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by JP

Is that so? Quinto had Heroes. A short lived NBC drama that, like most NBC shows, was watched by nobody.

I'm willing to bet good money that more people knew who Quinto was compared to Fassbender. Many people didn't see those two Rated R films. Millions watched Quinto every week on television. Plus he had some other stuff too.

Originally Posted by JP

I'd say they were about the same.

I can agree with that, with a slight edge going to Quinto. Only because more young people and kids had access to his work regularly than Fassbender's.

[JP]

Good points.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

Ok I gotta question how you came up with that? How is showing more of the OT characters somehow "fatal" to the franchise when the ONE movie the FC characters were featured on, it was the lowest grossing movie in the franchise (domestically).

Good questions. I'm looking forward to seeing his response to that.

Originally Posted by EnDz0n3

Yea got to agree with this. Quinto was just a TV actor known for playing heroes pretty much. Even now, he still has TV stench on him

LOL

You mean a "stench" like the ones on Patrick Stewart and Kelsey Grammar? You guys kill me with this dismissal of television actors and their value.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by JP

Good points.

We've got a lot of brilliant posters in the forum this go around. Everyone is really coming with strong points that make ya go "hmmm." And I love how the debates are healthy and this is just the beginning.

Thankfully we're nowhere near the badness of what we suffered through in 2006 with "Gina". Those were The Dark Warz.

[marvelrobbins]

Zachary Quonto credits post Star Trek 2009 were final season of Heroes,recurring role on American Horror story season 1,and regurly role on season 2.Star Trek has been his
main film credits.

depending on what happens at Oscars tonight Anna Paquin Is only actor committed to
film that has won an oscar.Yes she won It at age 12 but still won It.Jennifer Lawrence might make It 2 oscar winners In film.Inless a major upset happens Hugh Jackman Isn't going to win.

I find It funny people come Into Bryan SInger thread to knock OT actors In DOFP.