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Old 02-26-2013, 05:13 AM   #101
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

While I agree to an extent, the problem with the 'bigger bads' like The Court of Owls or The Black Glove is that they only really have an impact if the 'big bads' have been established already, and exist within the fabric of the story. The Black Glove was particularly sinister because it threatened to destroy Batman's legacy, and the reputation of Alfred and Thomas and Martha Wayne. That was far more threatening than The Joker spiking candyfloss with arsenic, because it seemed like The Black Glove could actually destroy the mythos itself. Likewise, The Court of Owls had always been there, while Batman was effectively playing cowboys and indians with the usual rogues gallery. They were subversive because their existence proved Gotham City to be a completely different place to what we thought we knew for 70 years. But all of that only works if the mythos is 'old', and we think we have seen it all before. I don't think either would have the same impact at a point where Batman may be facing down The Penguin, Riddler et al for the first time.

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:21 AM   #102
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

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Originally Posted by Excelsior. View Post
I don't see why a filmmaker would be incompetent if he chooses to tackle the grounded villains in Batman?

I would rather see a more fantastical Batman and a fantastical Gotham with his more outlandish villains this time around. Because Nolan has already given me more than enough of "realistic" Batman.
Absolutely! This is exactly what I'm hoping to see in these coming films. Which offers way more possibilities than the "nolanverse" ever could.

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Old 02-26-2013, 09:01 AM   #103
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

I have an idea for a rough trilogy of films; my focus is on the Wayne Legacy in Gotham, specifically the lives and reputations of Thomas and Martha as they affect Bruce.

Roman Sionis is a business rival to Bruce Wayne. He moonlights as the mobster known as Black Mask and is working as a distributor for the South American drug kingpin known as Poison Ivy. Ivy's narcotics trigger a hyper-addiction in the user, which can drive them to become quite violent if they aren't sated with the drug.

Black Mask uses this to build himself a veritable coalition of drug addicts, whom he sends to war against shipping yards owned by rival businessmen. Black Mask is soon challenged by Rupert Thorne, who owns several chemical plants in Gotham.

Under Thorne's employ is the scientist Hugo Strange, who creates the forumla which gives birth to Clayface. Strange is fascinated by the games Gotham's elite play, and is using his position in Thorne's company to study the psychological condition of the elite who have their hands in the underworld.

While Thorne has Clayface infiltrate Sionis' company, Strange arranges a meeting with Boss Sophia "Gigante" Falcone to cover his tracks and eliminate incriminating evidence of his association with Thorne.

Clayface learns of the advanced weapons R&D going on at Sionis' facilities and reports it to Thorne. Thorne has Clayface return to the facilities to destroy the research. In the process, Victor Fries' wife is killed. Fries tries to fight Clayface, but is beaten and thrown for dead into the stuff that makes him dependent on the cold-suit.

Freeze emerges with a want for revenge against the Gotham Underworld. His information gathering brings him into contact with a spy-for-hire known to the Underworld as the Catwoman.

Catwoman-Selina Kyle-is the rightful heir to the Falcone Syndicate. Not Sophia. Catwoman decides to provide Freeze with evidence incriminating Sionis, Thorne and Sophia in his wife's death and his current condition. While Freeze pursues his vendetta, Catwoman schemes to retake the Falcone Syndicate.

The above would be spread over several films; I wanted to create a Harry Potter sort of series that is tightly interconnected.

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Old 02-26-2013, 10:58 AM   #104
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I definitely want to see Penguin in a role similar to Falcone or Maroni in Nolan's batmovies
I don't. I want to see an interesting, capable portrayal of a mobster.

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Old 02-26-2013, 04:56 PM   #105
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

i think the first film should obviously have joker second film to introduce harley third to kill off joker and bring in ivy then go from there id love to see the growth of harley and keep babs in from the beginning

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Old 02-26-2013, 11:24 PM   #106
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

Freeze for the reboot, hands down.

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Old 03-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #107
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

First Film: Hugo Strange and the Monster Men. (Monsters include Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy)

Second film: Penguin and the Riddler destroy Gotham in a personal battle (see 'Storyline' category for a more in depth explanation)

Third Film: Mad Monk (cult film)

All 3 films show Batmans detective skills


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Old 03-07-2013, 05:39 AM   #108
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

first film have maybe a new villain or a less established one, the first film should always focus on batman and have him be the main focus, and take your time developing him, especially considering it will be a new actor in the suit so you need to get the audience invested in him as much as possible. as for the sequels then you can get out the more iconic members of the rogues gallery.

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Old 03-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #109
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

I really, really don't want an endless cycle of reboots. There is a limited appeal in seeing Batman grinding his batarangs and beating up Mafiosi.

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Old 03-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #110
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

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While I agree to an extent, the problem with the 'bigger bads' like The Court of Owls or The Black Glove is that they only really have an impact if the 'big bads' have been established already, and exist within the fabric of the story. The Black Glove was particularly sinister because it threatened to destroy Batman's legacy, and the reputation of Alfred and Thomas and Martha Wayne. That was far more threatening than The Joker spiking candyfloss with arsenic, because it seemed like The Black Glove could actually destroy the mythos itself. Likewise, The Court of Owls had always been there, while Batman was effectively playing cowboys and indians with the usual rogues gallery. They were subversive because their existence proved Gotham City to be a completely different place to what we thought we knew for 70 years. But all of that only works if the mythos is 'old', and we think we have seen it all before. I don't think either would have the same impact at a point where Batman may be facing down The Penguin, Riddler et al for the first time.


This is why my reboot fantasy would use the "main" villains of:

Jason Todd
Thomas Elliot
Simon Hurt

Because Jason and Thomas represent failures on behalf of both Bruce and his family. The Wayne's despite all their philanthropic gestures could not spare Jason from his life on the street, so it becomes questionable whether they were truly effective in Gotham, then Bruce fails to save Jason from Joker and as Red Hood, Jason shows Bruce that maybe Batman isn't as effective as Bruce would like him to be.

Elliot highlights an interesting personal paradigm for Bruce, is Bruce the man he is because of his parents? Elliot disproves this because his equally loving and philanthropic parents raise a greedy egotistical monster.

Then Simon Hurt enters the picture and what more need be said other than an organisation dedicated the corruption of virtue? In his own words you destroy a man's reputation and you destroy his soul and Bruce is targeted to have the utter destruction of a noble soul.

I'd like this as a trilogy of films, because as others pointed out, they're also far removed from the typical "Gotham is endagered" films we've seen with Batman, Batman Returns, Batman & Robin, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. Instead, we have personal films, Jason is a son attacking his father, and he highlights Bruce's ineffectiveness as a crimefighter. Thomas is a purely personal vendetta out of spite. Thomas tries to ruin everything ever considered noble about all of the Wayne's.

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Old 03-07-2013, 05:01 PM   #111
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

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I really, really don't want an endless cycle of reboots. There is a limited appeal in seeing Batman grinding his batarangs and beating up Mafiosi.

Agreed.

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Old 03-07-2013, 06:40 PM   #112
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

One villain I feel it might be interesting to see over the course of multiple films is Catwoman. You can have her as a smaller villain in the first film who, over the course of the series, starts to change sides, helping Batman out, until, by the third film, she's basically part of the Bat family. I love the Batman/Catwoman chemistry, so it would be fascinating to see it on screen.

As for other villains, definitely Riddler and Harley Quinn. I feel both can add a presence to the films that was lacking in the Nolan series. For the Riddler, it would be a mind game against Batman. If the character is written as an ego-maniac who manages to successfully craft a gauntlet to crush Batman--a'la Hush--you could create an intense mystery thriller, like the middle part of TDK.

As for Harley Quinn, it would show the effect the criminally insane have on the people of Gotham. In Nolan's film, all we saw was the good effect Batman had on Gotham City, how it drove people to do great things. However, with the exception of Two-Face, we seldom saw the effect the psychotic had on people's moral and sanity. Harley Quinn would represent the full collapse of sanity, and serve as proof that Batman isn't the only one who has an effect on Gotham.

As for other villains, I like the idea of Black Mask vs Penguin, or just the Penguin as a crime lord in Gotham. It would be nice to have a noteworthy, competent villain who is just a normal criminal. Black Mask would be a chance to show a more twisted character, in contrast to Penguin's facade of class.

Freeze and Ivy are also must-haves, just to compensate for Batman and Robin. Not in the same movie, for obvious reasons, but they need to be there.

...but I don't want to see Hush. I feel that there are a lot of classic villains that need a film first, more established characters...I'm not sure if I'd like to see Hush before characters like the Riddler or Freeze...

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Old 03-07-2013, 07:47 PM   #113
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I think The Penguin deserves a lot more love. His recent treatment in the comicbook "Pain and Prejudice" was impressive. He is potentially more psychologically plausible than most of the other rogues: he is a violent and greedy man with a Napoleon complex. His love of the high life, beautiful women, and an Arctic motif offers good potential for rich Gotham City settings.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:51 PM   #114
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So you want to do Batman Returns again? Alright, I know he didn't actually become Mayor but you know what I mean. I'd much perfer it if he were the biggest crime lord in Gotham like in the comics.

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Old 03-15-2013, 01:59 PM   #115
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

I'd like to see just the Riddler, against an already established Batman, don't need to see another origin for a while.

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Old 03-25-2013, 04:26 PM   #116
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So you want to do Batman Returns again? Alright, I know he didn't actually become Mayor but you know what I mean. I'd much perfer it if he were the biggest crime lord in Gotham like in the comics.
He could be both.

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Old 03-25-2013, 04:40 PM   #117
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I'd be down for an introspective Riddler detective movie where you never get to see him until the end (or never), like Se7en.

He leads Bruce on a hunt that goes on for days, and Bruce doesn't let himself rest or sleep which can lead to some internal, psychological stuff for Bruce by the end (ala Nolan's Insomnia).

Have it be about obsession (about why he's that way), learning to trust others (Nightwing/Robin) to do the job.

Batman thinks he's identified Nygma's dead body at the end, but he can't be sure.


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Old 03-25-2013, 10:19 PM   #118
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

HARLEY QUINN, Killer Croc, & Riddler!

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Old 03-26-2013, 09:30 AM   #119
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

If/when the Joker is used again, how about Vince Vaughn plat him?

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Old 03-26-2013, 12:50 PM   #120
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

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If/when the Joker is used again, how about Vince Vaughn plat him?
The Joker - Vince Vaughn
Riddler - Owen Wilson
Clayface - Jack Black
Hugo Strange - Will Ferrell
Mad Hatter - Ben Stiller

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:05 PM   #121
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The Joker - Vince Vaughn
Riddler - Owen Wilson
Clayface - Jack Black
Hugo Strange - Will Ferrell
Mad Hatter - Ben Stiller
Two Face - Rob Schneider
Batman - Adam Sandler

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:07 PM   #122
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

No Steve Carrell? I am disappoint.

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:13 PM   #123
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

I want to see an entire film dedicated to a comic book accurate Two Face.

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #124
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No Steve Carrell? I am disappoint.
It's actually a compliment to Carrell that we omitted him.

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #125
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Default Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?

The thing about Two Face is that he doesn't work all that well unless he is demonstrated to be a little crazy. As a partial development of Harvey Dent, he can only really be symbolic of Batman's failure. That doesn't sustain a great deal of interest in its own right. To give him a life of his own, the full Shakespearean tragedy of his downfall should be shown, including his becoming the archetypal crime lord that he spend his former life trying to destroy.

Until he flips that coin, anyway.

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