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Old 02-28-2013, 08:59 AM   #476
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This franchise is pretty dissimilar to Bond in every way. Contuining themes. Character development. Overarching villains. Reoccuring major supporting characters. It's a self contained story. Even Bond has done this in recent years from Casino Royale to Quantum. Finally they went in another direction with the last Bond. That's the way that franchise has played out. New characters and self contained stories with every entry. Not many analagous things to take from there to here.
What so the fact the major characters, the fundamental "team" have had several actors portray them over 50years is not something Marvel might do!

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:11 AM   #477
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What so the fact the major characters, the fundamental "team" have had several actors portray them over 50years is not something Marvel might do!
No, I'm saying we've known those characters for 50 plus years so we don't need a conventional introductions per say. You don't have to develop characters like M and Moneypenny. The villains and love interests always change. Audiences don't care about the growth or maturity of characters over the course of a Bond trilogy and there isn't any. Bond remains Bond from beginning, middle, and end. Completely unlike Stark from what we have seen thus far.

Iron Man hasn't had 50 years in the public. I don't know if Pepper Potts and Happy and Jarvis can be to Stark as what their equivalents have been to Bond. And if they could, the payoff won't be for another couple decades, because audiences have to get used to seeing these characters constantly recycled, and we don't know how they will perceive that should they go that route.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:34 AM   #478
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Default Re: Downey's last?

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No, I'm saying we've known those characters for 50 plus years so we don't need a conventional introductions per say. You don't have to develop characters like M and Moneypenny. The villains and love interests always change. Audiences don't care about the growth or maturity of characters over the course of a Bond trilogy and there isn't any. Bond remains Bond from beginning, middle, and end. Completely unlike Stark from what we have seen thus far.

Iron Man hasn't had 50 years in the public. I don't know if Pepper Potts and Happy and Jarvis can be to Stark as what their equivalents have been to Bond. And if they could, the payoff won't be for another couple decades, because audiences have to get used to seeing these characters constantly recycled, and we don't know how they will perceive that should they go that route.
The last 3 Bond movies have had more character development, especially with Bond and M. Even Skyfall has character development for the new M and Moneypenny. Bond hasn't just remained the same character from start to finish.

And the analogy Feige gives with Bond isn't about all these other things. It's just a simple thing really: changing the actor without having to reboot each time. The actor plays the same character you've seen in the previous movies. That's what he means by "James Bonding it".

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:41 AM   #479
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The last 3 Bond movies have had more character development, especially with Bond and M. Even Skyfall has character development for the new M and Moneypenny. Bond hasn't just remained the same character from start to finish.

And the analogy Feige gives with Bond isn't about all these other things. It's just a simple thing really: changing the actor without having to reboot each time. The actor plays the same character you've seen in the previous movies. That's what he means by "James Bonding it".
That's what he means. And it is also a strong arm negotiating tactic from a business standpoint, because they don't want actors above the characters. We'll see if he remains consistent. I don't think there will be much interest in a non-RDJ IM4 movie. They tried with Batman (albeit it Kilmer/Clooney were the least of its problems) and it fizzled out. If Feige believes different then lets see him hold to his word and recast Iron Man in PIII if neccessary. I believe all the Avengers characters will be recasted eventually. It just won't happen in this trilogy. Maybe 4-5 years post Avengers 3 when it is time to start up another saga.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:57 AM   #480
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Iron Man hasn't had 50 years in the public. I don't know if Pepper Potts and Happy and Jarvis can be to Stark as what their equivalents have been to Bond. And if they could, the payoff won't be for another couple decades, because audiences have to get used to seeing these characters constantly recycled, and we don't know how they will perceive that should they go that route.
But IronMan has being around for 50years, just not on film.

I think people will still care for IronMan after Downey has gone, he's a great deep character. Someone can take him in a different direction.

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:27 AM   #481
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I think that similar to Batman, Iron Man fits a similar obsession with Howard Hughes. He is an American self made bond. The character has great potential to continue beyond Downey.

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:38 AM   #482
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I just hope Downey keeps playing Stark until the rest of The Avengers contracts are up.

I know I sure don't want to see a new Tony Stark with the original Cap, Thor and Banner. Being able to recast all at once would be much preferable.

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #483
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Then again, maybe you can pick up with New Avengers for Avengers 4/PIV. Spidey could be back in house by then. Wolverine is kinda problematic. Spidey, maybe Spiderwoman, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Luke Cage. Pretty viable roster. Sort of grounded roster without the Earth shattering power, but that might be a turn for the better. That's the good thing about Avengers. The roster can constantly change with no repercussions. Another team-up I'd like to see is Defenders (Hulk, Strange, Namor, and Silver Surfer is possible) and maybe Marvel Knights (Blade, Punisher, DD, Ghost Rider).

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #484
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Then again, maybe you can pick up with New Avengers for Avengers 4/PIV. Spidey could be back in house by then. Wolverine is kinda problematic. Spidey, maybe Spiderwoman, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Luke Cage. Pretty viable roster. Sort of grounded roster without the Earth shattering power, but that might be a turn for the better. That's the good thing about Avengers. The roster can constantly change with no repercussions. Another team-up I'd like to see is Defenders (Hulk, Strange, Namor, and Silver Surfer is possible) and maybe Marvel Knights (Blade, Punisher, DD, Ghost Rider).
Spidey won't be back unless Disney hand over a ton of money or give them a huge chunk of the profits to use him.

Any of the X characters will still be rooting over at Fox.

Marvel Knights would be nice but I don't see Marvel pushing for mature, hell even late teen audiences as its proven to not make much money.

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:06 AM   #485
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Spidey won't be back unless Disney hand over a ton of money or give them a huge chunk of the profits to use him.
We don't know that. Sony had a 6 movie deal too.

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Any of the X characters will still be rooting over at Fox.
I agree. Never cared to see mutants in a super powered world though.

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Marvel Knights would be nice but I don't see Marvel pushing for mature, hell even late teen audiences as its proven to not make much money.
So Batman and Blade weren't successful? DD and GR and Punisher had terrible movies. But that's the thing, we don't need solo movies anymore to do that film.

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:13 AM   #486
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We don't know that. Sony had a 6 movie deal too
What do you mean? I was under the impression that the deal was that Sony has to make a new Spider-Man movie every x number of years. Do you mean that expires after 6 movies?

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Old 02-28-2013, 12:13 PM   #487
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What do you mean? I was under the impression that the deal was that Sony has to make a new Spider-Man movie every x number of years. Do you mean that expires after 6 movies?
Vaguely remember the details but I think it was a six picture deal. Whether or not the deal was revised at a later date, I don't know. But that's sounds about right. I think Garfield's Spiderman ends up in the MCU after ASM 3. Whether or not he still chooses to play the character or there are some legal boundaries is anyone's guess. Can't imagine there will be. I think Spiderman has a good chance of appearing in Avengers 4 or some MCU movie.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:17 PM   #488
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So if he goes your no longer interested in the character of Tony/IronMan
Actually, no. I never read an Ironman comic before watching the movies. Tried to get into it recently, and failed. Comic!Stark is a rather hateful guy, and there was nothing interesting about him. So I am speaking for the GA here, I guess.

The main difference with Bond, IMO, is that Bond movies are generic spy movies about a well-known spy. Kinda like Bourne movies are generic action movies. Ironman has a different vibe, it's much more personal. We see a lot of Stark's individuality there. Most members of this forum probably care more for His suits but I guarantee you that GA is more taken with Tony as a person. And RDJ has given the character a very unique spin that will be any other actor's nightmare.

I can see Marvel recasting him, but it will result in major popularity loss. Further Ironman movies will have the box office numbers closer to these of CA, for example, as they will appeal to comic fans, but lose many GA following.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #489
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Actually, no. I never read an Ironman comic before watching the movies. Tried to get into it recently, and failed. Comic!Stark is a rather hateful guy, and there was nothing interesting about him. So I am speaking for the GA here, I guess.

I can see Marvel recasting him, but it will result in major popularity loss. Further Ironman movies will have the box office numbers closer to these of CA, for example, as they will appeal to comic fans, but lose many GA following.
Well it looks like Marvel can make a good film yet not drive the audience to its comics, where they all originated.
Which is odd as the Matt Fraction run was fantastic, not read much of this new series.
I started collecting IronMan with Extremis and really like comic Tony, he is a broken man in many ways who uses IronMan as his escape, like Batman.

I don't see a re-cast making the series unpopular hasn't seemed to have harmed Spider-Man nor the X-Men.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:54 PM   #490
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Vaguely remember the details but I think it was a six picture deal. Whether or not the deal was revised at a later date, I don't know. But that's sounds about right. I think Garfield's Spiderman ends up in the MCU after ASM 3. Whether or not he still chooses to play the character or there are some legal boundaries is anyone's guess. Can't imagine there will be. I think Spiderman has a good chance of appearing in Avengers 4 or some MCU movie.
Marvel have no control over what or where Spider-Man goes, that is all on Sony. If they think having him in the MCU will do him good they will want a massive chunk of the profits to the rights to use him.
Sony won't lose those rights unless they let the character sit on the shelf for years with no form of production work, like how Marvel got the rights to DareDevil back.
With how much of a cashcow he is for Sony I won't be holding my breath for Spider-Man to show up in the next 10 years.

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Old 02-28-2013, 02:23 PM   #491
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I think the original plan was to produce six films. Whether that plan has changed or not, considering the reboot, is anyone's guess. There have been limiting returns on the franchise beginning with ASM. Considering ASM 2 features bigger characters and a better release date, it is all but guaranteed to make more money. But if it doesn't then there is something wrong with the franchise and the public perception.

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Old 02-28-2013, 02:55 PM   #492
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I don't even know how to respond to that. Are you "anti-continuity" or something? How could you be against consistency? And if your a Don Cheadle fan why would you be against him getting another role in the MCU? I honestly don't understand what would possess you to say something like that.
lol, relax guy. I would prefer no recasts but I'm not going to have a hernia when they eventually do happen (and they will, so you should just get used to the idea).

Both Rhodey's & Banner's recasts have been for the better, IMO.

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I really hate recasting. There is almost nothing in this world that I hate more.
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Iron Man is the one character where it is easiest to introduce a successor. Captain America? That's a no go. Wouldn't be an iconic figure. Thor? He's a God. Hulk? Loses his uniqueness if each successor gets gamma radiated. Iron Man on the other hand? Anybody could get into the suit.
Disagree. IM3 is going to address this, "Does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit?". I suspect the conclusion they come to will be - Tony Stark is Iron Man, anyone is just character Y wearing a Mark ## suit.

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:17 PM   #493
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Well it looks like Marvel can make a good film yet not drive the audience to its comics, where they all originated.
Which is odd as the Matt Fraction run was fantastic, not read much of this new series.
I started collecting IronMan with Extremis and really like comic Tony, he is a broken man in many ways who uses IronMan as his escape, like Batman.

I don't see a re-cast making the series unpopular hasn't seemed to have harmed Spider-Man nor the X-Men.
I don't mean unpopular. Just much less of a worldwide phenomenon. Neither Spiderman nor Xmen ever had to recast exceptionally strong leads. Tobey is... whatever, and the latter has a large cast. Rather then these examples, I Can see it going like Elementary VS BBC Sherlock series. Since the Sherlock lead was so charismatic, they could not copy it. The character got a major rewrite, and the end result was very dull. Any actor substituting Downey won't be able to out-act him. They will need to reimagine Tony Stark, and since the actual one is perfect, the only way I see is down. It may be kinda sorta decent but it will look pretty bad in comparison and people will all be nostalgic about Downey.

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #494
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I don't mean unpopular. Just much less of a worldwide phenomenon. Neither Spiderman nor Xmen ever had to recast exceptionally strong leads. Tobey is... whatever, and the latter has a large cast. Rather then these examples, I Can see it going like Elementary VS BBC Sherlock series. Since the Sherlock lead was so charismatic, they could not copy it. The character got a major rewrite, and the end result was very dull. Any actor substituting Downey won't be able to out-act him. They will need to reimagine Tony Stark, and since the actual one is perfect, the only way I see is down. It may be kinda sorta decent but it will look pretty bad in comparison and people will all be nostalgic about Downey.
Yet I enjoy for Sherlock and Elementary.
Writing the next actor off already isn't wise, I prefer the new Spider-Man to the old, whilst Toby looked like a massive nerd his Peter was a whiny wimp and no charisma as Spider-Man.

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:45 PM   #495
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. Yet I enjoy for Sherlock and Elementary..
Sure. But it's mostly just there, and definitely not a worldwide hit that propels its actors to lead in international blockbusters.

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Writing the next actor off already isn't wise.
Of course not. I will rejoice if they find somebody better, or at least similar in acting prowess to RDJ. I just find it highly unlikely. The guy co-starred with 4 majorly cut guys >10 years younger than himself, and still came out as the favourite action hero of the year. He has ginormous screen presence.

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:56 PM   #496
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Sure. But it's mostly just there, and definitely not a worldwide hit that propels its actors to lead in international blockbusters.


Of course not. I will rejoice if they find somebody better, or at least similar in acting prowess to RDJ. I just find it highly unlikely. The guy co-starred with 4 majorly cut guys >10 years younger than himself, and still came out as the favourite action hero of the year. He has ginormous screen presence.
Rather the next actor take on Tony as his own and leave the RDJ version to itself. No one, besides probably Depp, can pull of the loveable jerk that well.

Take Stark in a new direction.

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Old 02-28-2013, 04:54 PM   #497
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:23 PM   #498
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Iron Man is the one character where it is easiest to introduce a successor. Captain America? That's a no go. Wouldn't be an iconic figure. Thor? He's a God. Hulk? Loses his uniqueness if each successor gets gamma radiated. Iron Man on the other hand? Anybody could get into the suit.

Not saying go with the baby angle, but Rhodes could pick up a movie for Stark, or they can introduce another guy not in the comics. An intern working at Stark Industries. Off ya go. That's how you James Bond the franchise.
Wow, goes to show how very little people know about Iron Man and Tony Stark. Tony Stark IS Iron Man, he and the suit are one.

Not anyone can get a suit, and if they do, how would they pilot it? In the comics, the extremis armor was so hard to pilot it, Tony compared it to flying six stealth bombers at the same time. During the World's Most Wanted storyline, Tony was slowly deleting his brain's database to get rid of the SHRA. Essentially dumbing himself, he had to rely on older suits just so he could pilot them because he was losing his memory and getting dumber.

If that random person got a suit and got it damaged in battle, who would fix it? Who would make that person more suits for combat specific situations like the space suit? Only a mind like Reed Richards could figure out how to operate and fix Tony's more sophistacated suits correctly. Rhodey still goes to Tony for repairs and upgrades. Osborne's stolen Iron Patriot suit never operated like the original because he couldn't figure out the repulsor technology, Norman admitted it himself.

So no, not anyone can come in, put on the suit and call himself Iron Man.

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Old 02-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #499
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We can have someone like Starlord who wears the cool suits and then Pym who makes them.

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Old 02-28-2013, 05:29 PM   #500
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^^^ I agree. But try telling all that to Christopher Nolan.

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