Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by CoolCadaver49

Yeah, but that movie deserves it.

Eh, I can't say. Didn't see it, not a Tolkien fan.

But I do know that like TDKR, audiences/fans liked it alot in the majority - which is why I brought it up.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

Everyone else seems to get the point of a thread. I'm not going to re-explain it to you.

Face palm all you want to....I think you need to re-read all your posts in here.

I understand that the intent of the thread was to discuss how TDKR is now getting a lot of bad talk. The topic has been discussed in multiple threads in the Batforums for months. You wanted one thread to consolidate the discussion.

But....you are not asking for unbiased discussion on the phenomenon. You instead made the thread a complaint that people who do not share the same opinion as you do about the film are expressing that dislike. As a complaint thread....I know what it can devolve into.

My post, the part you quoted and commented on, was about how nobody should talk bad about someone if they have a different opinion than they do. I made that post because (1) it's my job here (2) I've seen many threads like this denegrate into attacks against people with different opinions.

So...when you make a thread that basiclly complains about the people who have a different opinion than you do...it draws many of those people into the thread to complain back at you....and it becomes yet another us against them thread of fights, name calling, and meanness.

Thus my post reminding everyone not to attack others.

[Anno_Domini]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people not liking or even hating TDKR.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Gosh no. It's a lot bigger than that. I'm talking about across the net. Much like the OP said, he/she sees it everywhere now. It's been on the increase for the last few months. Especially since it came out on DVD.

I don't see anyone bashing the film except for a familiar few who did it way before it was released on Blu-ray/DVD personally. Maybe I'll check out areas on the forums that I don't visit, but I see really a dividing of people who like/love it and people who dislike/hate it. No inbetween, much like Batman Returns and Watchmen.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

I can't help but recall how people responded when the picture of Talia leaked in the Summer of 2011. Then Nolan made his comment about other villains being watered down versions of the Joker. I think Nolan's comments and choice of villains rubbed some people the wrong way. No one expected Bane and Talia; Penguin, Catwoman and Riddler were all very popular choices in the months before Nolan announced Bane and Catwoman as the villains.

Penguin would've been a nice choice as a villain, but personally, I did NOT want to see Riddler at all in a third film. Glad it didn't happen.

Then, as Joker says, some may just not feel the movie measures up to the standards set by the previous two. The people who just "slam" it without giving a reason are likely looking to see if the Batboard folk live up to their reputation.

What do you think the percentage is of people having very thought-out reasons of disliking the film to people who just slam the film without any foundation behind it? 80-20?

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

Face palm all you want to....I think you need to re-read all your posts in here.

I understand that the intent of the thread was to discuss how TDKR is now getting a lot of bad talk. The topic has been discussed in multiple threads in the Batforums for months. You wanted one thread to consolidate the discussion.

But....you are not asking for unbiased discussion on the phenomenon. You instead made the thread a complaint that people who do not share the same opinion as you do about the film are expressing that dislike. As a complaint thread....I know what it can devolve into.

My post, the part you quoted and commented on, was about how nobody should talk bad about someone if they have a different opinion than they do. I made that post because (1) it's my job here (2) I've seen many threads like this denegrate into attacks against people with different opinions.

So...when you make a thread that basiclly complains about the people who have a different opinion than you do...it draws many of those people into the thread to complain back at you....and it becomes yet another us against them thread of fights, name calling, and meanness.

Thus my post reminding everyone not to attack others.

Eh...forget it. Not worth trying to further bickering or make things worse. Moving on..

[Uroboric Forms]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Subjective Opinions.

Well, certainly the part about how 'nobody liked it' is objectively wrong at least, and I would argue against the film failing considering what it set out for.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

I share your sentiments on the Riddler. I couldn't really muster myself to get excited for a third Batman film when he was the favorite or rumored. I say its a vocal 20 who don't offer any reason for their dislike of the film. While I don't agree with Joker or C.Lee's opinions on the movie (just for example), they do have thought out reasons for their sentiments toward TDKR.

TheDevilIsMe: You aren't doing anything great for the reputation of fans who enjoyed TDKR.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

TheDevilIsMe: You aren't doing anything great for the reputation of fans who enjoyed TDKR.

I asked a question - I'm not a big-time frequent poster and haven't been a big forum user - so any stigma associated with the TDKR-Fans, I'm not fully literate on.

I apologize.

[JackWhite]

I have a question for those who didn't enjoy TDKR, or at least found it underwhelming: was there a point during the film when you realized this wasn't what you thought it was going to be?

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I have a question for those who didn't enjoy TDKR, or at least found it underwhelming: was there a point during the film when you realized this wasn't what you thought it was going to be?

I was only a bit let-down, so I'll answer this -

When I found out Batman had been retired for 8 years - kind of hinted to me that the narrative wasn't where I had hoped it'd be going.

I also felt that as the film went on - Gotham felt empty. No war, no backlash - it just felt like the city was lifeless. Also the lack of Batman in the film, didn't feel right.

Those are a couple of red flags for me.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

I was only a bit let-down, so I'll answer this -

When I found out Batman had been retired for 8 years - kind of hinted to me that the narrative wasn't where I had hoped it'd be going.

I also felt that as the film went on - Gotham felt empty. No war, no backlash - it just felt like the city was lifeless. Also the lack of Batman in the film, didn't feel right.

Those are a couple of red flags for me.

The 8 year gap was a little jarring when I first heard that it was the route Nolan was going to go with the story. But what made me like the idea was that Bruce never truly let the Batman persona go. It rang true to Rachel's letter about Bruce not realizing how much he needed Batman. Now this could have easily been remedied with a little more Batman scenes spliced into the film. I wouldn't have minded if some of the other scenes with Batman had been a little longer, that would have helped for sure.

But yeah, biggest gripe for me was the second act. Bruce in the pit was marvelous and well paced with his recovery, but everything else going on in Gotham was kind of flat. On my first viewing I definitely noticed the pacing was a little odd, but that was more to do with the less than top notch editing in certain scenes. Foley's death being changed was the biggest "WTF?" moment for me when I first watched the film, lol.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

I share your sentiments on the Riddler. I couldn't really muster myself to get excited for a third Batman film when he was the favorite or rumored. I say its a vocal 20 who don't offer any reason for their dislike of the film. While I don't agree with Joker or C.Lee's opinions on the movie (just for example), they do have thought out reasons for their sentiments toward TDKR.

TheDevilIsMe: You aren't doing anything great for the reputation of fans who enjoyed TDKR.

Agreed with all of these.

And yah, TheDevilIsMe...you yourself said the posters on here are civilized, but you haven't seemed like it so far.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

you yourself said the posters on here are civilized, but you haven't seemed like it so far.

Other than smacking my head and replying to C.Lee - not sure how I was being rude/uncivilized.

[MagnarTheGreat]

I'll reiterate what I said a few months ago.

I think most people have simply moved on with their lives. A greater number of people that liked the movie have moved on with their lives than the people that did not like the movie. I don't let the number of people singing its praises on a TDKR forum deter me (the last defenders of an otherwise deserted city) from suspecting that it was shallow liking of the movie that the masses probably had while it was a stinging burn that the dislikers are still eager to talk about. And of course there's certain people who made up their minds years ago to hate or love the movie because of some inane corporate fan rivalry or being a part of the Christopher Nolan defense force.

[JackWhite]

Let's just continue on with the conversation at hand...

One ridiculous critique on TDKR part is when critics said Tom Hardy's Bane wasn't sexy enough. I mean, they actually said that.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

Other than smacking my head and replying to C.Lee - not sure how I was being rude/uncivilized.

You edited one of your replies, so that was smart though.

Originally Posted by JackWhite

Let's just continue on with the conversation at hand...

One ridiculous critique on TDKR part is when critics said Tom Hardy's Bane wasn't sexy enough. I mean, they actually said that.

Or that Bane wasn't The Joker. No **** he wasn't the Joker.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

You edited one of your replies, so that was smart though.

I figured that it wasn't worth it and better not to deliberately step on any toes if I can let it go. I'm not going to be a long-term poster here, kind of just on SHH! for a small bit. No need to ruffle feathers.

Originally Posted by JackWhite

One ridiculous critique on TDKR part is when critics said Tom Hardy's Bane wasn't sexy enough. I mean, they actually said that.

That was a criticism? Really? Oh dear.

Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat

I think most people have simply moved on with their lives. A greater number of people that liked the movie have moved on with their lives than the people that did not like the movie.

This happens alot. Not sure why those scorned by a film or game or what have you stick around longer. But you're probably on the right track here.

I've even noticed in myself if I'm happy with something, I'll tell one person. If something let me down, I'm more likely to tell more than just one person for longer.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

I did read a number of reviews where it seemed that people expected The Dark Knight, Part II, whereas TDKR had its own feel. As different from The Dark Knight as The Dark Knight was from Batman Begins.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

I did read a number of reviews where it seemed that people expected The Dark Knight, Part II, whereas TDKR had its own feel. As different from The Dark Knight as The Dark Knight was from Batman Begins.

I did notice the biggest critiques about TDKR was that it wasn't TDK. Which I thought was unfair.

[Katzenbach]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

I wouldn't say it's terrible, not even outright bad. But it is inferior to the Dark Knight. And that shouldn't be too surprising, since they didn't get to make the movie they wanted to make (with Heath Ledger's passing).

I also see it as something of a backlash against the rather... passionate fanbase.

I agree. I'm not sure people are trashing TDKR but it was the inferior of all three. If I were to rank TDK series, it would be as follows:
1) The Dark Knight
2) Batman Begins
3) The Dark Knight Rises

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

I did read a number of reviews where it seemed that people expected The Dark Knight, Part II, whereas TDKR had its own feel. As different from The Dark Knight as The Dark Knight was from Batman Begins.

Which is ironic because I felt TDKR was a mixture of TDK and BB but with a more "comic-booky" feeling to it compared to the last two films. I think the latter is another reason why TDKR gets such a backlash too because it lessens the so-called "realism" people see in BB and TDK for Nolan to progress the storyline and add The Bat into the mix.

[Schrute]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I have a question for those who didn't enjoy TDKR, or at least found it underwhelming: was there a point during the film when you realized this wasn't what you thought it was going to be?

For me personally I thought the film was good, not better than TDK or BB ( To be fair, BB is one of my all time favorite movies, I prefer it to TDK sometimes just because...i don't know I just love that movie).

But during the film, seeing Bruce reappear back in Gotham totally took me out of the movie, and I hear people say "Well I was fine with it" and I wish I was too, but the moment it happened I thought "damn, I wish I would've seen how he got back in".

Also the punching of the back scene, just took me out of the film.

Then Talia's reveal, which is cool, but that moment in the theater I thought well if they knew Bruce would not have made it out of the pit, when else would she have revealed herself? which might just be a nitpick of mine...but then I thought of the whole hallucination scene, and while I do like Ras coming back, it just felt a little forced for the reveal..but still, could just be a nitpick of mine

And, like others, the lack of Gotham's voice. I really thought we would have seen a Gotham inspired by Batman to stand up and fight back against Bane, and I understand why they wouldn't b/c of the bomb...I still was a little bummed not to see anyone but the police stand up---Also, the whole "send every cop into the sewers", I understand that has been exhausted as a criticism, but I think people can understand why some would think that is kind of illogical

I have no problem with Bane's death, Talia's death is a different story...I think Marion did the best she could..but come on, it is kind of funny imo

Finally...I just don't get why Bruce faked his death. I understand that he was frozen in time, and Alfred thinks Bruce wants to fail so he can finally leave this life he is stuck in (Bruce), but when Bane comes Bruce isn't going on a death wish, he really wants to stop Bane. But I just don't understand why Bruce Wayne, or the name i guess, has to die. I think it means that he is finally able to move on, I just don't think the execution was all that good

Not a bad film at all I just think TDK is better, and (imo) people may think BB is better---does anyone else think BB is a little underrated?

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Schrute

---does anyone else think BB is a little underrated?

Oh, most definitely.

It's Batman to me - Gotham feels like it should, the city is dark/gritty, it has a Batman driven to be Batman, it has a realistic feel whilst feeling like a comic book film - and it just feels more like Batman. Bruce Wayne/Batman was spot on and we had Wayne Manor, the potential for a Batcave, etc. We also had a Batman that looked like himself and not like he was a stack of armour - not to mention he was thought of as an urban legend and people feared him whereas in the next two films he was known to be a man, he operated in the light and waved goodbye to stealth. Despite feeling grounded, the 'mega-realism' that was present in the next two films wasn't there yet, and the series had potential to continue as a 'Batman' series. Color me a bit let down by the next two sequels in many ways even though I do like them.

In alot of ways, I feel like TDK is a crime film that happens to have Batman in it. People write off BB a bit too much in their attempt to put TDK on an even higher pedestal.

In my opinion, the sequels that followed BB un-did alot that was done in the first film in terms of setting, characterization, feel, style and the like. Batman became driven to quit-only, the city became dull and the city in BB was gone, the sequels got less comic-book in terms of feel so they lost what was a great balance, and they just lacked the feel of the Batman-film that BB did so well. In BB, I felt like the city was gritty with realism but I still could see Clayface existing in that world, for example. The next two films kind of sucked the color out of what was established both with characters and direction.

I think BB is overlooked alot of the time, so underrated...yes a bit. It won't be forgotten, but I think people seem to overlook it more since they're too busy praising TDK.

I like the Nolan Batman films...but I feel like 'Batman Begins' was the only Batman film of the series.

As a side note - One thing I find to be fickle is that every superhero film fanbase makes a big deal about how 'comic-accurate' a film should be - and if it is not faithful to the source material/if the director changes things then it's not a good thing. Yet...when Nolan did it, however many changes he wants to make, it's A-Okay. And I remember on IMDB when I was posting there in 2008 - I got flack for even hinting at being a bit put off by changes when these fans were originally praising Nolan for respecting the source material with BB.

Alot of Nolan-Fans seem fine with him changing source material yet I've seen them turn around a bash Burton for doing so as well. I'll tell you - if the next Batman series is more comic-accurate - Nolan's films will get alot more backlash on the internet forum-community.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Penguin would've been a nice choice as a villain, but personally, I did NOT want to see Riddler at all in a third film. Glad it didn't happen.

Why's that? I remember back in '08 thinking he'd be a pretty good choice, what with Batman having some pretty big secrets after TDK. I think a Nolan Riddler could have been pretty interesting.

[Ryan]

"why is everyone slamming tdkr".
Saying 'everyone' is probably a bit extreme, but I guess I'd say that this film has more people 'slamming' (in comparison to the other films) because they were unsatisfied with it...either on its own merit or in comparison to The Dark Knight or Batman Begins.

[Anno_Domini]

I said TheDevilIsMe wasn't being civilized...and now he's banned.

Originally Posted by henzINNIT

Why's that? I remember back in '08 thinking he'd be a pretty good choice, what with Batman having some pretty big secrets after TDK. I think a Nolan Riddler could have been pretty interesting.

I just never really wanted to see Riddler after the Joker. Having people choose one thing or another, that's the Riddler I wanted, much like how he's shown in Arkham City, but Nolan pretty much did that with Joker in The Dark Knight. I would have wanted something different and with Penguin, I would have gotten it. TDKR could have either cleaned up Gotham or brought in a "rise of the freaks" and while I did not want Penguin to be a freak, I would have wanted him to have muscle that was(Killer Croc).

And with Killer Croc, or Bane(who actually is in TDKR), there would've been someone that would have been a match for Batman.

Originally Posted by Ryan

"why is everyone slamming tdkr".
Saying 'everyone' is probably a bit extreme, but I guess I'd say that this film has more people 'slamming' (in comparison to the other films) because they were unsatisfied with it...either on its own merit or in comparison to The Dark Knight or Batman Begins.

In the present, TDKR has had a lot of "slamming", but Batman Begins, I feel, gets the most of it when looking at the entire trilogy. Ironically, both BB and TDKR are very underrated films as a whole and as part of the trilogy where TDK gets look at the most. It's like triplets and one child is praised the most when the other two children are just as good and well-mannered.