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Old 02-27-2013, 03:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Winter Soldier Thread

To go back to the domino mask topic... They didn't have Sebastian wear a domino mask as Bucky... so I doubt they will do it for Winter Soldier.

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Old 02-27-2013, 11:17 PM   #27
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To go back to the domino mask topic... They didn't have Sebastian wear a domino mask as Bucky... so I doubt they will do it for Winter Soldier.
Bucky and The Winter Soldier are essentially two different characters. In TFA Bucky was nothing more than a simple soldier, so he had no reason to wear a mask. As the Winter Soldier, he's special. He's a secret weapon and somewhat of a symbol. Also, I think some kind of mask is likely since he's not supposed to be instantly recognizable as Bucky.

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Old 02-28-2013, 08:32 AM   #28
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Bucky and The Winter Soldier are essentially two different characters. In TFA Bucky was nothing more than a simple soldier, so he had no reason to wear a mask. As the Winter Soldier, he's special. He's a secret weapon and somewhat of a symbol. Also, I think some kind of mask is likely since he's not supposed to be instantly recognizable as Bucky.
Who's gonna recognize him, other than Cap? And Cap was presumed dead for the 70+ years that WS was in operation.

Bucky was presumed dead. It's possible that whoever "inherited" Winter Soldier has no idea themselves of his true identity. He's just a long-haired guy with a bionic arm and he never misses a shot. They pull him out of ice every few years to go off somebody, then throw him back into the fridge. He's not gonna be recognizable to anybody except Cap and maybe Zola.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:57 AM   #29
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Who's gonna recognize him, other than Cap? And Cap was presumed dead for the 70+ years that WS was in operation.

Bucky was presumed dead. It's possible that whoever "inherited" Winter Soldier has no idea themselves of his true identity. He's just a long-haired guy with a bionic arm and he never misses a shot. They pull him out of ice every few years to go off somebody, then throw him back into the fridge. He's not gonna be recognizable to anybody except Cap and maybe Zola.
Well, SHIELD has the dossiers on the Howling Commandos in the deleted scenes. So presumably anyone with access to those files, Hill, Fury, Sitwell. Then of course, there's Natasha.

I disagree that he's a symbol, too. He's, at most, a bogeyman. A story about some superspy who could be anyone and could strike anywhere, at any time.

He isn't supposed to have an image.

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:55 AM   #30
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Well, SHIELD has the dossiers on the Howling Commandos in the deleted scenes. So presumably anyone with access to those files, Hill, Fury, Sitwell. Then of course, there's Natasha.

I disagree that he's a symbol, too. He's, at most, a bogeyman. A story about some superspy who could be anyone and could strike anywhere, at any time.

He isn't supposed to have an image.
The thing is, Bucky's likely to have changed his look somewhat over time, even if he's not aging at the usual rate. In the comics, WS was a young adult with long hair, so no one thought to connect him to a "dead" little boy sidekick from WWII. And, not knowing that WS is actually being put on ice for long periods of time, the math just wouldn't have added up.

At best, someone like Fury or Natasha would look at a file picture of WS and *maybe* notice a slight resemblance to Cap's best friend during the war, but nobody would seriously try to suggest that Bucky survived the fall during the train attack, let alone that he's still alive 70 years later and apparently hasn't aged a bit. They wouldn't figure the Captain America Anomaly would happen twice in very different parts of the world....wayyyyy too coincidental.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:47 PM   #31
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The thing is, Bucky's likely to have changed his look somewhat over time, even if he's not aging at the usual rate. In the comics, WS was a young adult with long hair, so no one thought to connect him to a "dead" little boy sidekick from WWII. And, not knowing that WS is actually being put on ice for long periods of time, the math just wouldn't have added up.

At best, someone like Fury or Natasha would look at a file picture of WS and *maybe* notice a slight resemblance to Cap's best friend during the war, but nobody would seriously try to suggest that Bucky survived the fall during the train attack, let alone that he's still alive 70 years later and apparently hasn't aged a bit. They wouldn't figure the Captain America Anomaly would happen twice in very different parts of the world....wayyyyy too coincidental.
Slight resemblance?

It'll be the same guy. Likely the same age, too. Might explain it that Zola's experiment made him unaging something.

I think it'd get them at least curious enough.

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Old 02-28-2013, 02:17 PM   #32
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Slight resemblance?

It'll be the same guy. Likely the same age, too. Might explain it that Zola's experiment made him unaging something.

I think it'd get them at least curious enough.
Hence Winter Soldier's domino mask in the comic...

I'm not sure they'll go the "mask over the eyes" route in the film, but having something at least partially covering his face would go a long way in keeping his identity a secret from everyone (especially Cap) more plausible.

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:39 PM   #33
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Hence Winter Soldier's domino mask in the comic...

I'm not sure they'll go the "mask over the eyes" route in the film, but having something at least partially covering his face would go a long way in keeping his identity a secret from everyone (especially Cap) more plausible.

I think some sort of mask would be good. His identity needs to be hidden a bit.

But it seems the MCU isn't having anything to do with identities

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Old 02-28-2013, 04:22 PM   #34
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Slight resemblance?

It'll be the same guy. Likely the same age, too. Might explain it that Zola's experiment made him unaging something.

I think it'd get them at least curious enough.
Dunno if he'd be the same age or not.
In the comics, you're talking about the difference between a boy and a man, literally, so he *did* age at least a decade or so, even on ice. The MCU's Bucky might have aged considerably as well.

In any event, for Fury or SHIELD or Tasha or whoever to start connecting the dots, they'd have to have a valid reason for suddenly going back through old Howling Commando files and studying Bucky's photos in particular. I can't think of any plot point that would require them to open up a new file on a soldier who (allegedly) died 70 years ago. At least not until Cap enters the picture.

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Old 02-28-2013, 06:23 PM   #35
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Bucky and The Winter Soldier are essentially two different characters. In TFA Bucky was nothing more than a simple soldier, so he had no reason to wear a mask. As the Winter Soldier, he's special. He's a secret weapon and somewhat of a symbol. Also, I think some kind of mask is likely since he's not supposed to be instantly recognizable as Bucky.
That is true. I was more thinking along the lines of the reason he has a domino mask in comics, it's the one item from his past as Bucky that remained the same. But yes, the movie verse is far different.

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Old 03-01-2013, 12:25 AM   #36
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So do you think they'll use the tesseract/cosmic cube to restore his memory?

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Old 03-01-2013, 12:29 AM   #37
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So do you think they'll use the tesseract/cosmic cube to restore his memory?
No.

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Old 03-01-2013, 12:39 AM   #38
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I agree, but I'd like them to. I'm one of these people who wants things to be close to the original comic story.

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Old 03-01-2013, 01:33 AM   #39
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I agree, but I'd like them to. I'm one of these people who wants things to be close to the original comic story.
Yeah I can see where you're coming from. I doubt it as well.

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Old 03-01-2013, 04:32 AM   #40
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I agree, but I'd like them to. I'm one of these people who wants things to be close to the original comic story.
I'm one of those people, too.

But using the cosmic cube isn't really one of the plot elements I think is crucial. Besides,the Tesseract hasn't yet been shown as having reality-altering powers, yet.

Although, the writers of CAPTWS are also the writers of Thor 2. So you never know, it might connect.

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:50 AM   #41
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So do you think they'll use the tesseract/cosmic cube to restore his memory?
I don't think general audiences will require a deus ex like that to see Bucky snap out of it. There's plenty of amnesia movies/TV episodes since the beginning of the medium that require little more than a blow to the head, a heartfelt moment, or just some really good drugs to restore somebody's memory. I think most moviegoers would be fine with a mundane approach to that for WS.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:34 AM   #42
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Do you think that they’ll keep his mechanical arm? If so, I hope they do away with the stereotypical “comic metal” with the horizontal segments. I’d want it to look much cooler – not really “exposed” gears and such, but something more than just a silver colored arm with strips.

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Old 03-01-2013, 10:38 AM   #43
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How would they get the Tesseract anyway ? Don't think Odin is losing that baby out of his sight any time soon. Better to have Cap knock some sense into him.

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Old 03-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #44
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How would they get the Tesseract anyway ? Don't think Odin is losing that baby out of his sight any time soon. Better to have Cap knock some sense into him.
In the comics, the original Cosmic Cube (aka Tesseract) was created by AIM's scientists and used by the Red Skull in his various schemes. Hawkeye recruited a group of rogue scientists to work on the Tesseract in The Avengers, and they could well have been members of AIM. (HYDRA is a less likely possibility because the group Clint and Selvig were working with were from a variety of ethnicities, which would be anathema to the Nazi affiliated villains.)


With that background in mind, it would make perfect sense if AIM succeeded in creating (or recreating) the Tesseract in CA: TWS.

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Old 03-01-2013, 05:54 PM   #45
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In the comics, the original Cosmic Cube (aka Tesseract) was created by AIM's scientists and used by the Red Skull in his various schemes. Hawkeye recruited a group of rogue scientists to work on the Tesseract in The Avengers, and they could well have been members of AIM. (HYDRA is a less likely possibility because the group Clint and Selvig were working with were from a variety of ethnicities, which would be anathema to the Nazi affiliated villains.)


With that background in mind, it would make perfect sense if AIM succeeded in creating (or recreating) the Tesseract in CA: TWS.
Good point, good theory, good plan. I'd be okay with seeing something fairly "authentic" to canon like that; I just wonder if general audiences might not consider it going back to the same-ole/same-ole well once too many times, though.

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Old 03-01-2013, 06:22 PM   #46
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No.

tell it like it is

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Old 03-01-2013, 06:32 PM   #47
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I'm one of those people, too.

But using the cosmic cube isn't really one of the plot elements I think is crucial. Besides,the Tesseract hasn't yet been shown as having reality-altering powers, yet.

Although, the writers of CAPTWS are also the writers of Thor 2. So you never know, it might connect.
They are???
I thought Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely were brought back to write TWS. Are they writing TDW as well?

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Old 03-02-2013, 01:23 AM   #48
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They are???
I thought Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely were brought back to write TWS. Are they writing TDW as well?
Yes, Marcus & McFeely are writing both movies, though they share the duties for Thor: TDW with Christopher Yost. Yost was the head writer on Avengers: EMH, so his grasp of the characters is solid. It's nice to have creative continuity in these films. The script for TFA was very good, so I was happy when the writers were rehired for the sequel.

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Old 03-02-2013, 01:28 AM   #49
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I don't think general audiences will require a deus ex like that to see Bucky snap out of it. There's plenty of amnesia movies/TV episodes since the beginning of the medium that require little more than a blow to the head, a heartfelt moment, or just some really good drugs to restore somebody's memory. I think most moviegoers would be fine with a mundane approach to that for WS.
I hope it's not the knock to the head deal again.

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Old 03-02-2013, 01:34 AM   #50
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They are???
I thought Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely were brought back to write TWS. Are they writing TDW as well?
Yes.

That gives me a modicum of hope, actually. No other writers have been asked to return for a sequel, so the fact that they are, and are being entrusted with another franchise, is a little encouraging.

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