Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

[JackWhite]

What slamming does BB get that you have seen Anno?

Sometimes I see people make posts on other message boards claiming BB to be the best Batman film.

I know on here, at least through the polls; BB always comes in last when it comes to comparing them against TDK/TDKR.

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Speaking of BB, it's on Spike TV right now.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

What slamming does BB get that you have seen Anno?

Sometimes I see people make posts on other message boards claiming BB to be the best Batman film.

I know on here, at least through the polls; BB always comes in last when it comes to comparing them against TDK/TDKR.

I continue to hear gripes that it's not as gripping as the latter two films or feels out of place with the trilogy or what have you, when, I think it's supposed to have that feeling with being an origin film, whereas Nolan finally let loose and had these complex stories for TDK and TDKR that you didn't quite see in BB.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Kryptonian Warrior

Speaking of BB, it's on Spike TV right now.

I remember seeing a promo for it last night. I loved the part where they are like "The voice" then it cuts to Batman's "Swear to me!" line.

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I continue to hear gripes that it's not as gripping as the latter two films or feels out of place with the trilogy or what have you, when, I think it's supposed to have that feeling with being an origin film, whereas Nolan finally let loose and had these complex stories for TDK and TDKR that you didn't quite see in BB.

You said it right Anno - BB is the origin story. The first chapter to an even bigger scope/picture.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I continue to hear gripes that it's not as gripping as the latter two films or feels out of place with the trilogy or what have you, when, I think it's supposed to have that feeling with being an origin film, whereas Nolan finally let loose and had these complex stories for TDK and TDKR that you didn't quite see in BB.

And that's strange to me. In my opinion, BB is the best of the trilogy.

[kedrell]

^By far. As far as I'm concerned, it's the only good one. It's alot like the Matrix trilogy in that respect.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by kedrell

^By far. As far as I'm concerned, it's the only good one. It's alot like the Matrix trilogy in that respect.

Now you've gone too far.

[the last son]

There are a few things wrong with this movie that I just can't find myself taking the time out to go by the dvd.
1. Too Long. When you make a film that long there is now way the pacing should be that awful. It's some of the worst I've seen.
2. It's boring. Why buy it when I can just watch my favorite parts on youtube? I don't care enough about this film to buy it for the scenes I can't see on youtube.
3. It's just not that entertaining. I've seen this movie maybe 3 times in full and I have no desires to ever sit down and watch it again.
4. It had nothing to do with a drop off from TDK. I thought TDK was a drop off from begins but those two movies were paced 10 times better even if the bane vs batman fight in the sewers was great. The dialogue in this movie would put a lesser man to sleep.
5. After a while if you have seen one Nolan film, you've seen them all. I always prefer story over action but my goodness this is supposed to be a summer blockbuster and all we ever hear is talking. Jeez, at least in TDK it was broken up with some sort of action. This movie action was cheesy and boring. The extras were horrible in this movie as well.
6. The side characters were a lot lamer this time around. How do you just come out of nowhere and give Blake what felt like just as much time as Batman? For the last movie can we please get some Batman in it Nolan! Is that too much to ask. We get what like 4 scenes?
7. 20 bucks. You expect me to pay 20 bucks for this. No way, it's not happening. Personally I will probably never buy another dvd again with the way technology is progressing especially for this.
8. They really dropped the ball with the 8 years. I mean right away to start the movie you're falling asleep like can we please get batman. No one really cares why he is out just put on the suit. I mean for the last in the trilogy we really have to wait 45 minutes to just watch batman ride on his motorcycle? Lame

[DACrowe]

1. Fanboys turn on EVERYTHING after the newness wears off.

2. The trilogy is over, so it's time to psyche themselves up for the new toy in the distance by crapping on the old one they're tired of playing with.

3. It is honestly inferior to TDK (some would also say BB, though I think that is open to debate) and thus if it's not as good as the best, it must be the worst in simplistic Internet terms.

4. In the wake of Avengers, the new fan favorite style is bright, colorful and super-duper faithful with universe/world building inner-connective content. Just like around 2005-2010, Nolan's "dark and gritty" style was the fad of choice.

5. People are just bored.

There are some reasons.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

You said it right Anno - BB is the origin story. The first chapter to an even bigger scope/picture.

Oh, of course it's the origin film, but the idea that the film is far different from both TDK and TDKR, even if all three films revolve around the same themes and the LoS returns(in TDKR), BB still feels very different. I remember when someone even mentioned on these forums if Batman Begins should have been named something else to make sense with the 'Dark Knight' theme even, lol.

Originally Posted by C. Lee

And that's strange to me. In my opinion, BB is the best of the trilogy.

There is also another idea, which is what you and kedrell has just mentioned...BB can be viewed as the best as well while some say BB is the only good film of the trilogy because they don't like how Christopher Nolan added so many hats into the following two sequels and it didn't feel like a "superhero" flick as much as BB does to them.

Originally Posted by the last son

There are a few things wrong with this movie that I just can't find myself taking the time out to go by the dvd.
1. Too Long. When you make a film that long there is now way the pacing should be that awful. It's some of the worst I've seen.
2. It's boring. Why buy it when I can just watch my favorite parts on youtube? I don't care enough about this film to buy it for the scenes I can't see on youtube.
3. It's just not that entertaining. I've seen this movie maybe 3 times in full and I have no desires to ever sit down and watch it again.
4. It had nothing to do with a drop off from TDK. I thought TDK was a drop off from begins but those two movies were paced 10 times better even if the bane vs batman fight in the sewers was great. The dialogue in this movie would put a lesser man to sleep.
5. After a while if you have seen one Nolan film, you've seen them all. I always prefer story over action but my goodness this is supposed to be a summer blockbuster and all we ever hear is talking. Jeez, at least in TDK it was broken up with some sort of action. This movie action was cheesy and boring. The extras were horrible in this movie as well.
6. The side characters were a lot lamer this time around. How do you just come out of nowhere and give Blake what felt like just as much time as Batman? For the last movie can we please get some Batman in it Nolan! Is that too much to ask. We get what like 4 scenes?
7. 20 bucks. You expect me to pay 20 bucks for this. No way, it's not happening. Personally I will probably never buy another dvd again with the way technology is progressing especially for this.
8. They really dropped the ball with the 8 years. I mean right away to start the movie you're falling asleep like can we please get batman. No one really cares why he is out just put on the suit. I mean for the last in the trilogy we really have to wait 45 minutes to just watch batman ride on his motorcycle? Lame

You could have really mentioned these in less than eight points.

But, "put a lesser man to sleep"? What did that mean?

Originally Posted by DACrowe

1. Fanboys turn on EVERYTHING after the newness wears off.

2. The trilogy is over, so it's time to psyche themselves up for the new toy in the distance by crapping on the old one they're tired of playing with.

3. It is honestly inferior to TDK (some would also say BB, though I think that is open to debate) and thus if it's not as good as the best, it must be the worst in simplistic Internet terms.

4. In the wake of Avengers, the new fan favorite style is bright, colorful and super-duper faithful with universe/world building inner-connective content. Just like around 2005-2010, Nolan's "dark and gritty" style was the fad of choice.

5. People are just bored.

There are some reasons.

The ironic thing is we won't be seeing the bold much outside of the MCU when looking at the Spidey reboot as well as Man of Steel.

[Ryan]

I definately felt that BB was/is the best Batman movie I've ever seen. I actually don't remember much backlash after its release, in fact, I thought it was pretty well loved by the critics as an amazing reboot. Soon to be quoted.

[OutOfBoose]

Because it's the weakest movie in the trilogy. The movie has more flaws, than previous Nolan movies, so a lot of people are happy to slam it.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I continue to hear gripes that it's not as gripping as the latter two films or feels out of place with the trilogy or what have you, when, I think it's supposed to have that feeling with being an origin film, whereas Nolan finally let loose and had these complex stories for TDK and TDKR that you didn't quite see in BB.

The only thing that bothers me about BB against the following films is how much Gotham changes visually. I know the sequels expanded in scope compared to one district in Begins, but it still stand out to me. I prefered the confined feeling from the original tbh.

The consistancy freak in me also dislikes recating Rachel, but obviously that couldn't be helped.

[JawZ270589]

Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat

I'll reiterate what I said a few months ago.

I think most people have simply moved on with their lives. A greater number of people that liked the movie have moved on with their lives than the people that did not like the movie.

Yeah.. I agree..
Many of my friends in the office and sport club (most of them are non comic book readers) who like this movie. Even many of them prefer TDKR than the Avengers, Looper, or Skyfall as the best of 2012. I think the phenomenon of 'Hatred towards TDKR' is just going on the internet and made ​​by the same people. Same people, who are very active on the internet, write comments everywhere (here, CBM.com, etc). There seems to be a great hatred. But if you want to look further, there is many more people who think TDKR is a good movie. But people like this has moved on, and won't waste their time to write their reasons for loving TDKR in every forums, sites on the internet.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by henzINNIT

The consistancy freak in me also dislikes recating Rachel, but obviously that couldn't be helped.

I feel the same way about Rhodey and Bruce Banner for the MCU, lol.

[the last son]

It's a business. They are playing characters they are not the characters, which is why the third movie in this trilogy could have been just as good as the dark knight if you would have just recast Ledger. There would not have been any backlash or disrespect. Ledger himself would probably not mind. As any performer knows the show goes on. I don't say that to be rude but honestly recasting is not meant to be a sign of disrespect. With a recast all you would have to do is have the new actor combined a little bit of Ledger with his own spin on the joker. The way joker explains his backstory would have worked perfect if the joker had an entirely different attitude.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I feel the same way about Rhodey and Bruce Banner for the MCU, lol.

You guys are gonna make me cry.

[Green Ghoul]

Originally Posted by henzINNIT

The only thing that bothers me about BB against the following films is how much Gotham changes visually. I know the sequels expanded in scope compared to one district in Begins, but it still stand out to me. I prefered the confined feeling from the original tbh.

The consistancy freak in me also dislikes recating Rachel, but obviously that couldn't be helped.

Not just the scope. The city evolved as the story progressed from film to film. It's kind of hard to sell that Batman is making a difference if the city remained bleak like it was in BB. This isn't the comics where Gotham City and Batman are in limbo, just so DC can keep making a profit.

As for the film getting slammed by some, I think a lot of it has to do with TDKR being more of Nolan's own take on the mythos than the other two films. Let's face it, BB was an origin movie and TDK is a classic Batman/Joker tale. TDKR on the other hand went far more into the unknown. Granted, Bane and Catwoman were there, and yes, there was a few nods to the comics, but we're dealing with a retired Batman in a cleaned up Gotham City. Nolan made up a lot of the rules this time around, and because of that the fanboys are more divided.

To me TDKR is the Return of the Jedi of this series. I liked it and it ended the trilogy on a good note, but I still think BB and TDK are the better films. As far as I'm concerned all good trilogies have one film that is a bit weaker than the others. The key thing is they're still good trilogies, as a whole, in the end.

[Anno_Domini]

^ Really shows how some don't REALLY care about a director's vision at all.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by Green Ghoul

Not just the scope. The city evolved as the story progressed from film to film. It's kind of hard to sell that Batman is making a difference if the city remained bleak like it was in BB. This isn't the comics where Gotham City and Batman are in limbo, just so DC can keep making a profit.

As for the film getting slammed by some, I think a lot of it has to do with TDKR being more of Nolan's own take on the mythos than the other two films. Let's face it, BB was an origin movie and TDK is a classic Batman/Joker tale. TDKR on the other hand went far more into the unknown. Granted, Bane and Catwoman were there, and yes, there was a few nods to the comics, but we're dealing with a retired Batman in a cleaned up Gotham City. Nolan made up a lot of the rules this time around, and because of that the fanboys are more divided.

To me TDKR is the Return of the Jedi of this series. I liked it and it ended the trilogy on a good note, but I still think BB and TDK are the better films. As far as I'm concerned all good trilogies have one film that is a bit weaker than the others. The key thing is they're still good trilogies, as a whole, in the end.

I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying here, but I have one question:

How did TDKR go any more into the unknown than the other two films did?

[Green Ghoul]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying here, but I have one question:

How did TDKR go any more into the unknown than the other two films did?

The retirement (8 year gap), the Harvey Dent Act and Gotham City being cleaned up. Not a scenario the comics had really tackled yet. Yes, the whole retirement thing had similarities with The Dark Knight Returns, but the reasons behind it were different.

What I'm saying is that the scenario was mostly coming from the storyteller this time around and not the source material. It was easier for some fans to nitpick, because in their minds they felt some things should have played out differently. It's kind of hard to make a "final chapter" for a character who's been ongoing for 75 years, and yet be expected to stick to the source material.

[RustyCage]

I think the real problem is that they tried to make it a final chapter at all. And I'm not just saying that I feel that way personally (I do, and it's okay if other people like it being so), but that it's what's got the fanbase all tilted. It was just too soon, for many.

But I think (most) everyone will calm down once we get another film or two to fill up the empty spaces left in Batman's abruptly finished career - even if it won't be Nolan's canon.

It's just about realizing that Batman's not over.

[BatLobsterRises]

Yeah, I agree with that RustyCage. That's why I feel pretty confident that the trilogy will hold up to the test of time. It's not fully contextualized in Bat-history until its successor is out there, and rather than fans turning on the Nolan films for the ways they may unfavorably compare to what comes next...I think for a lot of fans, the space and distance will allow them to appreciate them more for what they do have to offer.

And I really highly doubt we'll ever see a beginning to end chronicling of the life of Bruce Wayne on screen any time soon, so I see concluding the story as a long term investment kind of thing. Batman goes on forever, but we'll always have this version of the story that can completely stand on its own. It's nice to have the closure of knowing, "this is how Nolan wanted to go out". It always stung me that Burton didn't get to leave the franchise on his own terms, so it was huge for me for Nolan to get to see this through and tie up most loose ends.

[OutRiddled]

The one big problem I have with Nolan's films, is that they over-intellectualise the material to the point of ridiculousness. By doing so, in reality they are dumbing it down. You cannot cover a subject as complex as Anarchy Vs law and order in a 2 hour film. You can deconstruct the superhero in an essay, but it's not going to make for an entertaining film. I actually thought Watchmen did that in a much more entertaining and satisfying way. Showing what would it be like if superheroes actually existed. Instead we get endless monologues over-explaining everything.

[Anno_Domini]

Imo, it did make up for an entertaining film, so...there's that.