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Old 03-01-2013, 12:39 PM   #51
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Ray Charles. I like it. It was a very intense fight now that I think about it. I mean you can really tell Ray *snicker* is dead serious about doing Bats in. It was kill or be killed in this particular case, and Bats took the latter option. The bell tower scene is kind of hilarious. I always laugh at the dude who tries to jump Bats and falls straight through the floor, and the acrobat guy who the gets his balls busted by the special bat-ball-buster-thingy. Classic.

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Old 03-02-2013, 04:53 PM   #52
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So we got the "Ray Charles" looking black guy and what happened to the "Dr. Mindbender" looking bald guy holding the radio at the Flugelgeim museum?

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Old 03-02-2013, 08:45 PM   #53
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I googled "Batman vs black guy" and found this thread. I am so glad that I am not the only one with this scene burned into my brain..

the black dood is awesome.. but I see this guy and im wondering.. is this the same black guy with glasses who gets socked by Simon Phoenix?

You guys remember the scene, black guy puts up his fist.. then phoenix tazes everyone. Demolition Man!

Yeah BatMan gave this guy a really good okie doke move. I love this scene. I like when batman crashes through the floor too.

I told my friend thats me when I wanna leave the dive bar after 1 too many. lol
Is anyone else tickled to death by this post? I love this guy.

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Old 01-03-2014, 02:15 PM   #54
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I like this scene, when Bats gets out of the wreckage of the Batwing and is already beat up and dazed, but keeps going is epic. Batman continues on up those thousands of steps and is probably beat by the time he makes it to the top and he has to barely dodge a bell as well. The Black Goon was stronger that's it, I don't know why Bats couldn't think of something other than getting pushed back the entire fight. The leap from the bell and toss into the staircase is awesome. Did that hurt him? I mean he's in the Batsuit, do the punches and throws through walls hurt? also the music and setting is excellent. Just when you think Batman is done for, Bats legs flying out from underneath the belfry never ever gets old. Probably Batman's most ruthless kill ever. just let's the guy fall 1000 feet or so. Also found it kinda funny that Bats doesn't make a single sound when fighting the Black Goon until he does the karate yell leg scissors. does he have legs of steel or something? the Goon can throw him through the air but can't break his leg grip?


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Old 01-03-2014, 04:19 PM   #55
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

Wow an actual thread devoted to one of my favorite scenes ever from a live action Batman film? I think I am in nerdboy forum heaven.

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Old 01-03-2014, 04:36 PM   #56
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Great great scene an fight. Starting with all the build up.

But mostly the fight was great for me because it mixed beautifully the violence of it with the Joker's humor. And the waltz as a background made it all the more memorable.

It was also good to see Batman against someone who could clearly defeat him.

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Old 01-03-2014, 05:37 PM   #57
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This scene is hilarious.

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Old 01-03-2014, 06:58 PM   #58
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At first I saw the thread name and thought, "huh?", then I remembered.

Old thread, but a cool one. This fight always stood out to me. I enjoyed the scene and the Cathedral showdown in general. I really like how broken and exhausted Batman looks and yet he's still going for it.

The black Joker thug brawl is a good fight. I remember the guy popping up and grabbing him was a surprise. I also thought that chain with the hook the guy had was going to knock Batman's head off. Then the swings and impacts of Batman's head getting clobbered in were pretty brutal. I also like the old "Batman moment" of him pretending to have fallen down the tower but using his legs to dispose of the goon.



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I'm actually watching Batman on AMC right now. Cool.

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Old 01-03-2014, 07:14 PM   #59
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I watched B'89 yesterday and the scene is still great!

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Old 01-11-2014, 09:20 PM   #60
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This was only one of the things that bugged me about this film.That random goon #8 could potentially beat him.And not only beat him,but beat him soundly.

I mean,I guess I can excuse it (unlike the multitude of other character inaccuracies the film has) on the grounds that there needed to be a decent opponent for an action scene,and with no Bane or Ra's available that was the best they could do.

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Old 01-11-2014, 09:23 PM   #61
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I always laughed at this scene cuz it's very entertaining. It's a fun scene but goofy because this random dude can beat the piss out of Batman. And Batman can barely beat this guy, so he kills him. Hahaha.

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Old 01-11-2014, 09:54 PM   #62
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I always laughed at this scene cuz it's very entertaining. It's a fun scene but goofy because this random dude can beat the piss out of Batman. And Batman can barely beat this guy, so he kills him. Hahaha.
Ooooh, loooool. Like in every single action movie.

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Old 01-11-2014, 10:48 PM   #63
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Batman: "I can't beat two of your pawns?"

Ra's: "As you wish.You may face this one pawn who kinda looks like Ray Charles.I hear he's so good,he can even fight in a darkened bell tower while wearing sunglasses."


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Old 01-12-2014, 12:26 AM   #64
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The guy just survived a plane crash and emerged from the flaming wreckage battered and bloodied (in all 7 Batman films we've never seen him this ****ed up). He's got a slight limp AND ascends up an enormous Cathedral . . .

And we find it odd for him to struggle with the Joker's biggest, meanest thug who is relentless on him? Who would/should have done the fighting with Batman then? The Joker?

Funny how people in here would defend TDKR Batman's ass kicking by tarantula mask wearing Mr. Clean. The one that wasn't hurt and wasn't in a wreck. The one that didn't bring enough gadgets to face his opponent. The one that used little dollar store spectacle toys before having his ass handed to him.

Ray Charles goon would have totally destroyed Mr. Clean in a brawl.

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Old 01-12-2014, 06:33 AM   #65
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Ray Charles may be blind, but his remaining senses are heightened. He's a real human bat!

It would have been a cooler scene if Ray Charles sang and played the piano, while The Joker and Vicki danced to the music. Batman sneaks up behind Ray, slowly... Then he suddenly grabs the piano, turns and throws it at Batman.


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Old 01-12-2014, 01:57 PM   #66
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The guy just survived a plane crash and emerged from the flaming wreckage battered and bloodied (in all 7 Batman films we've never seen him this ****ed up). He's got a slight limp AND ascends up an enormous Cathedral . . .

And we find it odd for him to struggle with the Joker's biggest, meanest thug who is relentless on him? Who would/should have done the fighting with Batman then? The Joker?

Funny how people in here would defend TDKR Batman's ass kicking by tarantula mask wearing Mr. Clean. The one that wasn't hurt and wasn't in a wreck. The one that didn't bring enough gadgets to face his opponent. The one that used little dollar store spectacle toys before having his ass handed to him.

Ray Charles goon would have totally destroyed Mr. Clean in a brawl.
I seriously doubt Burton's writers were even thinking of Batman's previous scene with a crashed vehicle before he set up that fight with Ray Charles. The fight was there, to be a fun fight, plain and simple. Burton's world was not really about making sense, it's all suspension of disbelief. Put a fun scene here , a fun scene there. Im not criticizing by the way because i think it's entertaining. It works. It's just really funny.

As for Rises, it's still Bane. And Bruce hasn't been Batman for 8 years. Has he even worked out much? He certainly hasn't had a fight since. His body is worse off in their fight than Batman's even after the Batwing crashed into the street.

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Old 01-12-2014, 02:22 PM   #67
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I seriously doubt Burton's writers were even thinking of Batman's previous scene with a crashed vehicle before he set up that fight with Ray Charles. The fight was there, to be a fun fight, plain and simple. Burton's world was not really about making sense, it's all suspension of disbelief. Put a fun scene here , a fun scene there. Im not criticizing by the way because i think it's entertaining. It works. It's just really funny.
And yet the scene connected perfectly with Batman's crash and made sense.

So much so that when Batman got into the cathedral he stumbled on the benches. So yes, they were, in fact thinking about the crash after it happened.

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As for Rises, it's still Bane. And Bruce hasn't been Batman for 8 years. Has he even worked out much? He certainly hasn't had a fight since. His body is worse off in their fight than Batman's even after the Batwing crashed into the street.
I seriously doubt Nolan's writers were even thinking of Batman's previous scene where he puts on a special device so he can walk normally again. If they did, Bane would have removed it and he would have been limping again. It's all suspension of disbelief.

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Old 01-12-2014, 02:25 PM   #68
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That shows how human Batman really is. I always liked scene after he crashes he still has the will go after the Joker.

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Old 01-12-2014, 02:30 PM   #69
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Bane: hurrrm? A lerg brace that lerts Bruce kicks threw bricks. Leave it on! It's not like he'll be able to escape this open pit with no security, while the prisoners have plenty of rope.

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Old 01-12-2014, 04:38 PM   #70
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I seriously doubt Burton's writers were even thinking of Batman's previous scene with a crashed vehicle before he set up that fight with Ray Charles. The fight was there, to be a fun fight, plain and simple. Burton's world was not really about making sense, it's all suspension of disbelief. Put a fun scene here , a fun scene there. Im not criticizing by the way because i think it's entertaining. It works. It's just really funny.
I think they were, it's called continuity and the film is jam packed with progression.

http://youtu.be/uKjra8i2XTw?t=43s

"Again Michael what you're suggesting is an interesting thing. You don't want to look too sluggish. You want to look wounded but you're still going for it."



There was a thought process in all of it. If there wasn't a "point" to having him be beaten, they wouldn't have bothered showing Batman limping, struggling up the cathedral steps or even bumping into one of the pews causing them all to collapse. If they weren't thinking about the previous scene, why did they care about the continuity of all the blood and shrapnel in his face? Or the cuts and gouges in his suit, or the heat seared, cracked bat chest emblem? Surely all these set pieces were filmed on different days of production.

Yeah, it is a fun scene but not because, "herrr derrr, look at Batman getting his butt kicked by a random and having to kill to win, so un-Batman like". It's a fun scene because as Batman is fighting the Joker's men, the Joker is dancing to a waltz with a hostage. It's not fun for Batman though. Those blows to the head aren't "lolz".

I mean, what card are we going to play here? "Comic book superhero Batman would beat that guy easily" or "this is a film with a human Batman that can hurt and bleed". I guarantee that the filmmakers had that in mind. It would have been quite boring if Batman dispatched of the Joker thug as easily as he did the others. Up until that fight Batman kicked everyone's ass unscathed, even the sword wielding yakuza thug.




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As for Rises, it's still Bane. And Bruce hasn't been Batman for 8 years. Has he even worked out much? He certainly hasn't had a fight since. His body is worse off in their fight than Batman's even after the Batwing crashed into the street.
I dunno about that. You ever been in a car accident? Your body feels destroyed in even a minor crash. Now a single pilot jet flying into a wall? Ouch. I'd take being rusty fighting wise and using my trusty magic knee brace over ****ing metal pieces in my FACE and cuts, bruises, burns and abrasions everywhere. I'm actually surprised they didn't give Keaton a scar prosthetic from the wounds that were inflicted on the character in the first film.

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Old 01-12-2014, 05:03 PM   #71
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I think they were, it's called continuity and the film is jam packed with progression.

http://youtu.be/uKjra8i2XTw?t=43s

"Again Michael what you're suggesting is an interesting thing. You don't want to look too sluggish. You want to look wounded but you're still going for it."



There was a thought process in all of it. If there wasn't a "point" to having him be beaten, they wouldn't have bothered showing Batman limping, struggling up the cathedral steps or even bumping into one of the pews causing them all to collapse. If they weren't thinking about the previous scene, why did they care about the continuity of all the blood and shrapnel in his face? Or the cuts and gouges in his suit, or the heat seared, cracked bat chest emblem? Surely all these set pieces were filmed on different days of production.

Yeah, it is a fun scene but not because, "herrr derrr, look at Batman getting his butt kicked by a random and having to kill to win, so un-Batman like". It's a fun scene because as Batman is fighting the Joker's men, the Joker is dancing to a waltz with a hostage. It's not fun for Batman though. Those blows to the head aren't "lolz".

I mean, what card are we going to play here? "Comic book superhero Batman would beat that guy easily" or "this is a film with a human Batman that can hurt and bleed". I guarantee that the filmmakers had that in mind. It would have been quite boring if Batman dispatched of the Joker thug as easily as he did the others. Up until that fight Batman kicked everyone's ass unscathed, even the sword wielding yakuza thug.


I dunno about that. You ever been in a car accident? Your body feels destroyed in even a minor crash. Now a single pilot jet flying into a wall? Ouch. I'd take being rusty fighting wise and using my trusty magic knee brace over ****ing metal pieces in my FACE and cuts, bruises, burns and abrasions everywhere. I'm actually surprised they didn't give Keaton a scar prosthetic from the wounds that were inflicted on the character in the first film.
Turns out that you're right about that scene. I stand corrected. So there was some thought behind it. That might be a first for Burton lol.

And no, i have never been in a car accident.

Anyways i still think it's a super goofy scene. That's one thing ill always stand by, that the Burton movies and Shumacher's were equally silly. Just one version had a darker/more creative look. But of course it's fun.

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And yet the scene connected perfectly with Batman's crash and made sense.

So much so that when Batman got into the cathedral he stumbled on the benches. So yes, they were, in fact thinking about the crash after it happened.



I seriously doubt Nolan's writers were even thinking of Batman's previous scene where he puts on a special device so he can walk normally again. If they did, Bane would have removed it and he would have been limping again. It's all suspension of disbelief.
I wasn't saying that it was different from Rises in that sense. Im only talking about Batman 89 and the suspension of disbelief.

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Old 01-12-2014, 05:25 PM   #72
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I wasn't saying that it was different from Rises in that sense. Im only talking about Batman 89 and the suspension of disbelief.
And it was obvious they did consider the Batwing crash in subsequent scenes.

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Old 01-12-2014, 06:07 PM   #73
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Anyways i still think it's a super goofy scene. That's one thing ill always stand by, that the Burton movies and Shumacher's were equally silly. Just one version had a darker/more creative look. But of course it's fun.

Nothing about the first Batman is as silly as Forever and Robin. Batman '89 introduced audiences to a darker and more serious Batman. Even in my most cynical, I don't think there's a single quality about Batman himself that is "silly". Not the look, not the mannerisms, not the voice, not the acting.

Now there are Joker gags in the film that are fun and silly, especially the museum scene (which suits the character), but I don't think the first film ever presented Batman or his world being absurd or foolish. It's a great mix of everything we love about the character. He's the most serious and darkest of the bunch. He doesn't say "I'll get drive thru" or whip out bat-credit cards. He doesn't quip, refer to himself as "Wayne's powerful friend" and he doesn't talk to himself in an hysterical over the top voice.


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Old 01-12-2014, 06:25 PM   #74
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That shows how human Batman really is. I always liked scene after he crashes he still has the will go after the Joker.
Yes, brilliant scene. He was in a plane crash and then walked up many stairs. In the novelisation it says he flashes in and out of reality, thinking of his parent's murder. Then fighting a big guy is going to be a challenge, and is more than enough to explain things.

The first goon jumps through the floor himself, which required no effort on Batman's part. The next guy just required Bats to extend his arm gauntlet. Ray Charles wasn't going to go away quietly.

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Old 01-12-2014, 06:26 PM   #75
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Nothing about the first Batman is as silly as Forever and Robin. Batman '89 introduced audiences to a darker and more serious Batman. Even in my most cynical, I don't think there's a single quality about Batman himself that is "silly". Not the look, not the mannerisms, not the voice, not the acting.

Now there are Joker gags in the film that are fun and silly, especially the museum scene (which suits the character), but I don't think the first film ever presented Batman or his world being absurd or foolish. It's a great mix of everything we love about the character. He's the most serious and darkest of the bunch. He doesn't say "I'll get drive thru" or whip out bat-credit cards. He doesn't quip, refer to himself as "Wayne's powerful friend" and he doesn't talk to himself in an hysterical over the top voice.
Returns has things that are just as silly as Batman and Robin and 89 has things that are just as silly as Forever.

It's more serious, only in comparison to the Adam West version or a Reeve Superman, but it's far from "serious". It's still full of gags, and is still a pretty goofy movie. Tim Burton's Batman is still a great popcorn movie. Yes, it's a popcorn movie, just with a gothic look.

No he doesn't whip out a credit card. And of course he's darker and more serious than Kilmer or Clooney. But there are plenty of scenes that tell the audience that it's practically a dark comedy. Keaton's Wayne in or out of the public is still a quirkball, very awkward and always really funny. With the exception of 1 or 2 scenes that he has with Alfred/Vale. Those are minimal. You can say the same about the couple of scenes Kilmer's Bruce has with Dick/Chase.

The movie knows its genre, and doesn't try to hide from it. The thugs, the cops, they all act hammy and cartoony. Almost every word out of Knox's mouth is a one-liner or bad pick-up line, or a joke about bats. He's their attempt at a comic relief character. Nicholson's Joker is hysterical all the way through, in a very dark way at times. Like i said, the movie is a dark comedy.

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