MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by blalex620

Why does everyone say they were only trolling?
I mean the call from Star-Lord fits with what everyone's been saying about the spacesuit and how it's going to be used. The Janet cameo also fits because we still don't know who Stephanie is playing and I remember someone tweeting when she's revealed the crowd will go crazy or something like that

The only thing we can say with certainty is that IM has a deep space suit. The rumors about a post-cred scene featuring him going into space to answer a distress call from the GOTG makes sense on some levels, and not so much on others. Personally, I believe that rumor, but I've still got my grain of salt handy.

Stephanie as Wasp doesn't make sense on plenty of levels which I've already *****ed about on tons of different threads over the past year, but I'll just state the biggest and most obvious one as the coffin-nail for that particular rumor: Feige (and nearly everyone else associated with IM3) have said specifically that there are NO Avengers appearing in IM3 (other than Tony, of course).

[blalex620]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

The only thing we can say with certainty is that IM has a deep space suit. The rumors about a post-cred scene featuring him going into space to answer a distress call from the GOTG makes sense on some levels, and not so much on others. Personally, I believe that rumor, but I've still got my grain of salt handy.

Stephanie as Wasp doesn't make sense on plenty of levels which I've already *****ed about on tons of different threads over the past year, but I'll just state the biggest and most obvious one as the coffin-nail for that particular rumor: Feige (and nearly everyone else associated with IM3) have said specifically that there are NO Avengers appearing in IM3 (other than Tony, of course).

As in no one from the Avengers movie. But he also said that IM3 definitely kicks off Phase 3 and that there will be easter eggs in it that you could miss on the first viewing. The GA doesn't know who Janet is. Us comic bookers do but as for everyone else no. I mean it just makes sense with A.I.M. being in the movie and the ties between Janet and Hank and A.I.M.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by blalex620

As in no one from the Avengers movie. But he also said that IM3 definitely kicks off Phase 3 and that there will be easter eggs in it that you could miss on the first viewing. The GA doesn't know who Janet is. Us comic bookers do but as for everyone else no. I mean it just makes sense with A.I.M. being in the movie and the ties between Janet and Hank and A.I.M.

What ties between Janet and Hank and AIM?
I've read the Avengers since the 1970s, and I assure you that Janet and Hank and AIM have never had "ties," other than the usual run-ins with them as part of the whole Avenger team.

Plus, "easter eggs" aren't the same thing as "cameos." Could we see a SHIELD file or something that mentions Pym or Janet? Sure. A full-fledged cameo? No. I strongly doubt Feige was prevaricating when he said there'd be NO Avengers in IM3. Past, present, or future. IM3 is supposed to be Tony's time to shine, and will focus on *his* mythos only, not the Avenger mythos.

[pr0xyt0xin]

pure speculation, but this armor description:
"An armor is built in response to the villain, Firepower. The "Particle Radiation Cannon Attachment" absorbs and channels Taggert's heat against him."

makes me think that maybe Firepower will be an amalgamation of the actual Firepower and Firebrand, Iron Man's other villain. Firepower didn't really have powers/weapons dedicated to heat or fire in the comics did he?

In that regard they may do the same with the villain Coldblood, and combine his character with Iron Man's villain Blizzard. It would make him more flashy on screen and allow them to use the dichotomous nature of the two villains in conjunction.

This would fit in pretty well with the Extremis story as they could gain powers like the villain did in the Extremis arc.

I wouldnt be surprised and I wouldnt mind something like that, as they already did similar things with Whiplash, giving him ties to both Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo.

[blalex620]

If that's the case what do you make of this:
In the meantime, Feige said that Marvelites can expect the groundwork for "Avengers 2" to start as early as "Iron Man 3," even if they won't quite know what to look for.
"I would say that the exercise of this film is very much standalone, more so than any 'Iron Man' film since the first one. But because we are in Phase Two and we're heading towards another 'Avengers' movie, there's certainly a road that's being paved — you just might not notice it," he said regarding how much "Avengers" teasing we'll see in the "Iron Man" threequel. "While you're driving on the road, not knowing where it's going, you might not realize that there are road signs and signals and lane changes that we're setting up now — they might not be readily apparent the first time you see them

I could be wrong about their connection I thought I saw somewhere that Hank worked for A.I.M.

And Easter eggs can be cameos if only a few people know who this person is. When Hawkeye showed up in Thor the GA had no idea who he was only we did So technically it could be an Easter Egg.

[Mr. Dent]

If the armor descriptions are true then there are plenty of easter eggs in them.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by blalex620

If that's the case what do you make of this:
In the meantime, Feige said that Marvelites can expect the groundwork for "Avengers 2" to start as early as "Iron Man 3," even if they won't quite know what to look for.
"I would say that the exercise of this film is very much standalone, more so than any 'Iron Man' film since the first one. But because we are in Phase Two and we're heading towards another 'Avengers' movie, there's certainly a road that's being paved — you just might not notice it," he said regarding how much "Avengers" teasing we'll see in the "Iron Man" threequel. "While you're driving on the road, not knowing where it's going, you might not realize that there are road signs and signals and lane changes that we're setting up now — they might not be readily apparent the first time you see them

I could be wrong about their connection I thought I saw somewhere that Hank worked for A.I.M.

And Easter eggs can be cameos if only a few people know who this person is. When Hawkeye showed up in Thor the GA had no idea who he was only we did So technically it could be an Easter Egg.

Hawkeye's appearance was a cameo, though, not an easter egg. Easter eggs would be, for instance, Selvig in Thor talking about a colleague he was going to contact who'd had run-ins with SHIELD before (i.e., Banner; and originally, that scene was supposed to say Pym's name outright); or the SHIELD world map with dots marking the location of Wakanda, Atlantis, and other Marvel U staples.

Feige's quote describes a subtle approach to Avengers 2. From that description, none of us --- fanboys included --- will even pick up on the Avengers 2 connections until after that movie comes out in 2015. Kinda hindsight 20-20 "oh yeah....now I see" thing. An outright cameo by Janet Van Dyne or Hank or T'Challa or anybody else would be as unsubtle as they come, in contrast.

[blalex620]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Hawkeye's appearance was a cameo, though, not an easter egg. Easter eggs would be, for instance, Selvig in Thor talking about a colleague he was going to contact who'd had run-ins with SHIELD before (i.e., Banner; and originally, that scene was supposed to say Pym's name outright); or the SHIELD world map with dots marking the location of Wakanda, Atlantis, and other Marvel U staples.

Feige's quote describes a subtle approach to Avengers 2. From that description, none of us --- fanboys included --- will even pick up on the Avengers 2 connections until after that movie comes out in 2015. Kinda hindsight 20-20 "oh yeah....now I see" thing. An outright cameo by Janet Van Dyne or Hank or T'Challa or anybody else would be as unsubtle as they come, in contrast.

I wouldn't say it could take that long. More like it'd take multiple viewings to find them all. But like he said this is definitely the beginning of Phase 2.

[Son of Coul]

Someone'll start putting some pieces together a little early, like the fans who caught onto the alleged Tesseract/new element connection in IM2 and CA: TFA (still never confirmed, though). But nothing will be definite till A2 of course.

[pr0xyt0xin]

I could see Stephanie being Jan. Even with that "nail in the coffin" cherokee is so adamant about. Kevin Feige may have said the following:

Iron Man 3 doesn’t feature any of the other Avengers, or Nick Fury showing up, or any of those world-blending conceits that the Phase One films had.

but what does that really mean? As stated above, "any of the other Avengers" only includes Hulk, Thor, Cap, BW and Hawkeye at this point. So that rules them out. And Nick Fury is out. But about those "world-blending conceits" ... ?
IM2 blended Cap, IM and Thor (alluding to Tesseract, Caps shield, New Mexico)
Thor blended TIH and IM (with Coulson and Selvigs lines about Banner)
CA:TFA blended Cap, IM and Thor (with Norway, Howard Stark etc.)
TIH mentioned Stark-tech and cameo'd RDJ, not to mention the Super Soldier program.

Thing is, Janet and Hank... don't have a world to blend yet. Their solo film doesnt come until 2015. They aren't Avengers, they aren't a part of SHIELD (so far as we know) and Jan could very well be introduced as an Iron Man character until further notice.

At that, perhaps Hank will be introduced as a Captain America or Thor character long before he gets his solo film.

I'm not really concerned with the world blending seen in IM2. Black Widow fit pretty well in my opinion and her original first appearance was in an Iron Man comic anyway. And in the same vein she may someday get her own solo movie.

[Mr. Dent]

I really wish someone would just ask her or Feige who she's playing. That alone makes me believe she's not Wasp because if she were I'm sure we'd have a more definitive source telling us she was by now. I'm going to stick with Bethany Cabe for now.

[blalex620]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I could see Stephanie being Jan. Even with that "nail in the coffin" cherokee is so adamant about. Kevin Feige may have said the following:


but what does that really mean? As stated above, "any of the other Avengers" only includes Hulk, Thor, Cap, BW and Hawkeye at this point. So that rules them out. And Nick Fury is out. But about those "world-blending conceits" ... ?
IM2 blended Cap, IM and Thor (alluding to Tesseract, Caps shield, New Mexico)
Thor blended TIH and IM (with Coulson and Selvigs lines about Banner)
CA:TFA blended Cap, IM and Thor (with Norway, Howard Stark etc.)
TIH mentioned Stark-tech and cameo'd RDJ, not to mention the Super Soldier program.

Thing is, Janet and Hank... don't have a world to blend yet. Their solo film doesnt come until 2015. They aren't Avengers, they aren't a part of SHIELD (so far as we know) and Jan could very well be introduced as an Iron Man character until further notice.

At that, perhaps Hank will be introduced as a Captain America or Thor character long before he gets his solo film.

I'm not really concerned with the world blending seen in IM2. Black Widow fit pretty well in my opinion and her original first appearance was in an Iron Man comic anyway. And in the same vein she may someday get her own solo movie.

I agree with everything here. Janet and Stark have a history(even though it came after her and Pym were together) but still that's easy to rectify so having her appear in IM3 is easy enough.

And Dent maybe they want to keep her character a secret until the movie comes out.

[Mr. Dent]

Like I said, if she were really Janet we would have definitely had a more reputable leak by now.

[cherokeesam]

Yes, I'm adamant as hell that Szostak isn't playing Janet, and it's because (as I've stated numerous times) she's all wrong for Janet, Janet has no real mythos connection with Stark other than Avengers (including a brief fling with him in Avengers when she was a divorcee), and because it makes no sense.

But let's play devil's advocate for a moment and pretend the Szostak-Janet supporters are right. My questions are simple:

1) Why on earth would you introduce her in an Iron Man movie?
2) Why on earth would you dilute an Iron Man movie with an extraneous character who won't be fleshed out even remotely for another 2 years?
3) Why on earth would you introduce her in a movie before you even introduced Hank Pym?
4) Why on earth would you introduce her in a pointless cameo in IM3 in 2013 when she's got a *proper* introduction coming in 2015, either in Avengers 2 and/or Ant-Man?
5) Why on earth would Marvel try to cast a shroud of secrecy over letting fanboys know that Szostak is really Janet, when she is not even remotely a major Marvel figure whose introduction into the MCU would take the fanboy nation by storm? (More like: Wasp....? Really? So ****in' what....?)

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yes, I'm adamant as hell that Szostak isn't playing Janet, and it's because (as I've stated numerous times) she's all wrong for Janet, Janet has no real mythos connection with Stark other than Avengers (including a brief fling with him in Avengers when she was a divorcee), and because it makes no sense.

But let's play devil's advocate for a moment and pretend the Szostak-Janet supporters are right. My questions are simple:

1) Why on earth would you introduce her in an Iron Man movie?
2) Why on earth would you dilute an Iron Man movie with an extraneous character who won't be fleshed out even remotely for another 2 years?
3) Why on earth would you introduce her in a movie before you even introduced Hank Pym?
4) Why on earth would you introduce her in a pointless cameo in IM3 in 2013 when she's got a *proper* introduction coming in 2015, either in Avengers 2 and/or Ant-Man?
5) Why on earth would Marvel try to cast a shroud of secrecy over letting fanboys know that Szostak is really Janet, when she is not even remotely a major Marvel figure whose introduction into the MCU would take the fanboy nation by storm? (More like: Wasp....? Really? So ****in' what....?)

I appreciate you playing with me. Good to keep an open mind, in case the movie comes out and it turns out you are wrong.

1. to lead up to Ant-Man without the protagonist (Hank) stealing the show.
2. I'll answer this with a question. Why do you believe its diluting a film that is one installment in a film universe that is supposed to be 100% cohesive? In other words, why is Wasp any less of a Marvel Universe (aka Iron Man universe) character than Pepper or Rhodey?
3. See answer #1. Ant-Man appearing in Iron Man is a teamup. Wasp appearing in Iron Man is a cameo. Not to mention, we don't know if Hank will or won't show up in any Phase 2 film.
4. idk. ask Hawkeye.
5. The shroud of secrecy is for us, the fanboys. So we talk about it and get hyped about it. As we are doing right this second. The character itself, might (wait for it...) JUST might actually be relevant to the story. omg... relevant to the story? you don't say!

A better way to word your fifth question would be "Why would someone like Bethany Cabe or Madame Masque or Justine Hammer (or whoever you think she's playing) be shrouded in secrecy?"

[blalex620]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I appreciate you playing with me. Good to keep an open mind, in case the movie comes out and it turns out you are wrong.

1. to lead up to Ant-Man without the protagonist (Hank) stealing the show.
2. I'll answer this with a question. Why do you believe its diluting a film that is one installment in a film universe that is supposed to be 100% cohesive? In other words, why is Wasp any less of a Marvel Universe (aka Iron Man universe) character than Pepper or Rhodey?
3. See answer #1. Ant-Man appearing in Iron Man is a teamup. Wasp appearing in Iron Man is a cameo. Not to mention, we don't know if Hank will or won't show up in any Phase 2 film.
4. idk. ask Hawkeye.
5. The shroud of secrecy is for us, the fanboys. So we talk about it and get hyped about it. As we are doing right this second. The character itself, might (wait for it...) JUST might actually be relevant to the story. omg... relevant to the story? you don't say!

A better way to word your fifth question would be "Why would someone like Bethany Cabe or Madame Masque or Justine Hammer (or whoever you think she's playing) be shrouded in secrecy?"

LMAO Greatest comeback so far!!!
And to add to it Wasp is definitely a character fanboys would go crazy over. People love her more than Pym. She's one of the most famous Marvel female heroes. So yeah her inclusion would make us go bat**** crazy.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

I appreciate you playing with me. Good to keep an open mind, in case the movie comes out and it turns out you are wrong.

1. to lead up to Ant-Man without the protagonist (Hank) stealing the show.
2. I'll answer this with a question. Why do you believe its diluting a film that is one installment in a film universe that is supposed to be 100% cohesive? In other words, why is Wasp any less of a Marvel Universe (aka Iron Man universe) character than Pepper or Rhodey?
3. See answer #1. Ant-Man appearing in Iron Man is a teamup. Wasp appearing in Iron Man is a cameo. Not to mention, we don't know if Hank will or won't show up in any Phase 2 film.
4. idk. ask Hawkeye.
5. The shroud of secrecy is for us, the fanboys. So we talk about it and get hyped about it. As we are doing right this second. The character itself, might (wait for it...) JUST might actually be relevant to the story. omg... relevant to the story? you don't say!

A better way to word your fifth question would be "Why would someone like Bethany Cabe or Madame Masque or Justine Hammer (or whoever you think she's playing) be shrouded in secrecy?"

1. Why *shouldn't* Hank Pym "steal the show," when *he's* the title character in his own movie? It's "Ant-Man," not "Ant-Man and Wasp." (And I hate to remind you, because I'm not happy about this either, but Wright so far has given no indication whatsoever that he intends to include Wasp in his story about Hank Pym and Scott Lang.)

2. Wasp *is* a Marvel Universe character; she *isn't* an Iron Man Universe character.

3. Right, we don't know if Ant-Man will show up as a cameo in another Phase II movie. But a title superhero's casting is going to be something that's a bit of a public exhibition, not something they're going to keep quiet. So until we start hearing some actual official casting news for Ant-Man, we can't expect to see any surprise cameos from him.

4. Hawkeye's inexplicable appearance in Thor is exactly what Feige has said they want to avoid. He caught the heat from the fans for that scene. Fanboys wanted to see a meaningful cameo, or none at all; not a meaningless cameo that didn't even illustrate or mention who the guy was. Don't think they'd try to do that for Janet Van Dyne, either.

5. Goes back to #2. Madam Masque, Bethany Cabe, and Justine Hammer ARE characters who are part of Iron Man's mythos. It could very well be that they want to keep another potential IM4 villain(ess) under wraps.

Or: another possibility is simply that Szostak is nobody "famous." And there's no "secrecy" involved; just no hype surrounding a "Face In the Crowd #2" walk-on.

Originally Posted by blalex620

LMAO Greatest comeback so far!!!
And to add to it Wasp is definitely a character fanboys would go crazy over. People love her more than Pym. She's one of the most famous Marvel female heroes. So yeah her inclusion would make us go bat**** crazy.

Absolutely unequivocally false.
Wasp is famous ONLY to fans of the Avenger comics, like me. The rest of Marvel fandom basically don't even know who she is. She has had almost no appearances/team-ups with any Marvel hero outside of Avengers business, and outside of recent animated fare like the cancelled AEMH and two Ultimate Avengers DVDs, she has had NO exposure to the general public in movies, TV, or video games.

I love Jan. I want Wasp to be in the Avengers. I want her to be a major part of the team. But I want her to be introduced the *right* way, through Hank Pym's story; not Tony Stark's.

[Cagefighterkip]

Phase III:

Planet Hulk/World War Hulk
Captain America 3
Black Panther
Doctor Strange
Avengers 3
Daredevil

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

1. Why *shouldn't* Hank Pym "steal the show," when *he's* the title character in his own movie? It's "Ant-Man," not "Ant-Man and Wasp." (And I hate to remind you, because I'm not happy about this either, but Wright so far has given no indication whatsoever that he intends to include Wasp in his story about Hank Pym and Scott Lang.)

This is lame. Your arguments are lame. Do you actually think Wasp will be excluded from the MCU? Or are you just that incapable of thinking for yourself? Just because no indication has been made that Jan will be in Ant-Man, you think Jan won't be in the MCU? Or are you just attempting to use that as a part of your weaksauce lame argument? Well I don't deem that as valid logic, therefore I refuse to refute it.

2. Wasp *is* a Marvel Universe character; she *isn't* an Iron Man Universe character.

*They* *are* *the* *same* *universe*

4. Hawkeye's inexplicable appearance in Thor is exactly what Feige has said they want to avoid. He caught the heat from the fans for that scene. Fanboys wanted to see a meaningful cameo, or none at all; not a meaningless cameo that didn't even illustrate or mention who the guy was. Don't think they'd try to do that for Janet Van Dyne, either.

people didn't like Hawkeyes cameo? wtf. Thats the first I'm hearing of this. I thought it was great! Hawkeye = awesome, Thor = awesome, Hawkeye in Thor = awesome.

5. Goes back to #2. Madam Masque, Bethany Cabe, and Justine Hammer ARE characters who are part of Iron Man's mythos. It could very well be that they want to keep another potential IM4 villain(ess) under wraps.

Or: another possibility is simply that Szostak is nobody "famous." And there's no "secrecy" involved; just no hype surrounding a "Face In the Crowd #2" walk-on.

Szostak was in the trailer. Discomposing RDJ no less. Anyone important enough to be included in the trailer, and who can shake up the wad of self-confidence that is Tony Stark (you'd better believe) is more than just "face-in the crowd #2"

I also have no problem believing its a villainess or a supporting character from IM comics, but your reasoning being "Wasp isn't big enough to keep secret" makes no sense when all of his villainesses are less big than Wasp..

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

This is lame. Your arguments are lame. Do you actually think Wasp will be excluded from the MCU? Or are you just that incapable of thinking for yourself? Just because no indication has been made that Jan will be in Ant-Man, you think Jan won't be in the MCU? Or are you just attempting to use that as a part of your weaksauce lame argument? Well I don't deem that as valid logic, therefore I refuse to refute it.

Dude, shut the **** up with the insults. I'm not trying to insult you, so don't try to insult me either, okay? I'm not trying to shoot down your arguments or saying their stupid, because they aren't; I'm just positing alternative explanations. Quit trying to take it personally.

And no, I sincerely *hope* Jan won't be excluded from the MCU. As I said, I WANT her to join. I just haven't seen any evidence that the powers-that-be are nearly as excited about her as you and I are.

*They* *are* *the* *same* *universe*

*no* *they* *are* *not.*

Look: yes, Iron Man is in the Marvel Universe. Cap is in the Marvel Universe. Hulk is in the Marvel Universe. But do the solo titles have their own smaller mythos? Yes, yes they do. Just as Avengers is one franchise in the comics, as opposed to Iron Man being another franchise, the movies work the same way. Iron Man faces *one* set of enemies and supporting cast and so on in the Avengers, and a *different* set in his solo headliner title. That's what we mean when we talk about different mythologies. *Sometimes* they overlap; but *usually* they don't. Tony's Avenger buddies rarely show up in his solo comics, and vice versa; we shouldn't expect them to in the movies, either.

[pr0xyt0xin]

hardly trying to insult you. point was that it just seems obvious Jan will be in a future MCU film. Is there any evidence Thanos will play a part in GotG? Is there any evidence The Ancient One will be in a Doctor Strange film? Is there any evidence that there will even be a villain in Avengers 2? No. It's just common sense.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

hardly trying to insult you. point was that it just seems obvious Jan will be in a future MCU film. Is there any evidence Thanos will play a part in GotG? Is there any evidence The Ancient One will be in a Doctor Strange film? Is there any evidence that there will even be a villain in Avengers 2? No. It's just common sense.

Sure, I agree it's common sense. Just tell that to Edgar Wright and Joe Cornish, who didn't include Janet Van Dyne in the first (or, so far, *any* known) draft of the Ant-Man movie.

*Now* do you understand why a lot of us are very concerned that Wright might be ****ing up Ant-Man (and a vital chunk of Avengers lore) as well?

[Hawkingbird]

I agree with those who don't believe it's Jan. She's too big a character to be just plonked in an Iron Man movie. This is supposed to be hard hitting and serious, putting Janet in would take the spotlight off Tony. I do, however, believe there's a chance that we could get a reference to Hank/Janet in IM3, as we did to them in Thor (the scientist Selvick was talking about was Hank, not Banner).

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Sure, I agree it's common sense. Just tell that to Edgar Wright and Joe Cornish, who didn't include Janet Van Dyne in the first (or, so far, *any* known) draft of the Ant-Man movie.

*Now* do you understand why a lot of us are very concerned that Wright might be ****ing up Ant-Man (and a vital chunk of Avengers lore) as well?

can you cite this? I haven't seen the first draft of the script. I'd like to.

To the best of my knowledge Edgar Wright is incapable of ruining a movie. I'd take it as a sign of the apocalypse if that happened.

[Ant-manic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

What ties between Janet and Hank and AIM?
I've read the Avengers since the 1970s, and I assure you that Janet and Hank and AIM have never had "ties," other than the usual run-ins with them as part of the whole Avenger team.

are you sure that you weren't just looking at the pictures? how did you forget about MODAM impersonating Hank's deceased ex-wife? how'd you forget Monica Rappaccini going through a lot of trouble to personally recruit Pym into A.I.M?