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Old 03-03-2013, 01:54 AM   #101
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Imo, it did make up for an entertaining film, so...there's that.
Plus, y'know...cinema goers between the age of 14 and 30 who don't really care about the deeper aspects of it and just want to be entertained, an audience that was clearly captured by the films.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:40 AM   #102
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The one big problem I have with Nolan's films, is that they over-intellectualise the material to the point of ridiculousness. By doing so, in reality they are dumbing it down. You cannot cover a subject as complex as Anarchy Vs law and order in a 2 hour film. You can deconstruct the superhero in an essay, but it's not going to make for an entertaining film. I actually thought Watchmen did that in a much more entertaining and satisfying way. Showing what would it be like if superheroes actually existed. Instead we get endless monologues over-explaining everything.
The movies never tried to "cover" these subjects. That is to say they aren't designed to educate or inform the audience in the 2 hour timespan. They're meant to entertain you while leaving you some food for thought when you think back on the movie afterwards. All of Nolan's movies have that aspect of being able to live on in your mind after you see the film. But as films they are built to thrill and entertain. I was never taken out of the film by the monologues because they were always well placed and well acted. It never felt like Heath Ledger was preaching to the audience about chaos. It made total sense because he was trying to twist Harvey's point of view. It enhanced the movie because he raised some good points and you could believe that Harvey in his state might be susceptible to Joker's rhetoric.

It'd be one thing if the movie took an aside to talk about chaos but it didn't advance the plot or characters. But the seamlessness with which they integrated all the various elements just makes the movie fire on all cylinders.

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:21 AM   #103
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I simply expected better from Nolan. The film lacked focus, it was trying to do too much and as a result it's muddled. The film lacks genuine surprises, feels labourious at times, is bogged down by McGuffins and flat out lacks logic in some instances. I don't know quite what i was hoping for but it wasn't what we ended up with. Still haven't bought the DVD yet and I'm in no rush to do so.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:05 AM   #104
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I thought it was just as good, if not better, than Begins. Most of what I see pointed out as flaws are either nitpicks or things I can defend from attack, but ultimately, in art, all is subjective. One man's nitpick is another man's unforgivable sin. One man's "that plot twist moved me" is another man's "that plot twist left me cold". None the less, 8/10 film for me.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:13 AM   #105
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Because it wasn't as iconic as TDK people jump to the conclusion that it's trash.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:33 AM   #106
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Lobby, you're a saint. Enjoyed your last two posts.

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Plus, y'know...cinema goers between the age of 14 and 30 who don't really care about the deeper aspects of it and just want to be entertained, an audience that was clearly captured by the films.
Suddenly ashamed of my generation again. Thanks a lot.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:54 AM   #107
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Suddenly ashamed of my generation again. Thanks a lot.
I'm 23 years old.

I mean casual film goers. Not Batman fans, not film buffs etc. Just the people that go to movies that look cool to kill a couple of hours with friends, who aren't looking for anything 'deep'.

Better?

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Old 03-03-2013, 08:44 AM   #108
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I'm 23 years old.

I mean casual film goers. Not Batman fans, not film buffs etc. Just the people that go to movies that look cool to kill a couple of hours with friends, who aren't looking for anything 'deep'.

Better?

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Old 03-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #109
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Because it wasn't as iconic as TDK people jump to the conclusion that it's trash.
Sadly, yah....

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Old 03-03-2013, 01:55 PM   #110
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - I simply expected better from Nolan. The film lacked focus, it was trying to do too much and as a result it's muddled. The film lacks genuine surprises, feels labourious at times, is bogged down by McGuffins and flat out lacks logic in some instances. I don't know quite what i was hoping for but it wasn't what we ended up with. Still haven't bought the DVD yet and I'm in no rush to do so.
This.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:18 PM   #111
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I would argue that this film was more focused than its predecessors.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:21 PM   #112
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Not just the scope. The city evolved as the story progressed from film to film. It's kind of hard to sell that Batman is making a difference if the city remained bleak like it was in BB. This isn't the comics where Gotham City and Batman are in limbo, just so DC can keep making a profit.
There is a more intereting way to progress the city visually than to just switch to generic cityscapes though.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:33 PM   #113
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I would argue that this film was more focused than its predecessors.
Yeah, if there's one thing the film didn't lack, it was focus. The focus was on Bruce Wayne and the end of his journey. That could not have been more clear.

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Old 03-03-2013, 03:07 PM   #114
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I would argue that this film was more focused than its predecessors.
Agreed. This film focused more on the characters than the past two films that tried to cover all of Gotham. While some can view it as a "bad thing", the third film felt the most like a character piece and it worked with it being the ending of the series as it had to bring closure to Bruce Wayne's story and build up the "newcomer", Robin John Blake.

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Old 03-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #115
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Yeah that's why there was numerous complaints about too much Blake, not enough Catwoman, too much Bruce and too little Batman, Tate/Talia being under developed, wasting time on bad characters like Foley etc because TDKR was so successful at being more focused on the characters.

It was the least successful one at handling it's characters, IMO. BB and TDK had a much stronger and more focused narrative.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #116
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

I seriously liked Blake, but I agree that less focus on him would've given them time to better flesh out the Catwoman/Batman chemistry (I wanted at least one fight/chase between them!), Talia, Bane, etcetera.

But when I step back and think about how it would have gone... the less we saw of Batman in TDKR.. the better. They just didn't know how to portray him very well anymore at that point, and the voice had degraded. Bruce was a better Batman than Batman was in a lot of ways, so I was happy with just that.

Boggles me that they nailed it in Begins and then somehow lost touch with it over ime, but I'd rather have it rubbed in as little as possible.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #117
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

The Dark Knight Rises is, IMO, the weakest of the Nolan films. It's just not as strong from a story/character perspective as BB or TDK.

I loved Bane and Blake in the film. Joesph Gordon Levit is quickly becoming one of my favourite actors.

But it just feels like the series went out in a puff of smoke rather than a bang. After TDK, I really am disappointed by this film.

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Because it wasn't as iconic as TDK people jump to the conclusion that it's trash.
Or it just wasn't as good as the previous films. I have re-wached it many times and it just doesn't hold up as well as the other two.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:17 PM   #118
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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I seriously liked Blake, but I agree that less focus on him would've given them time to better flesh out the Catwoman/Batman chemistry (I wanted at least one fight/chase between them!), Talia, Bane, etcetera.

But when I step back and think about how it would have gone... the less we saw of Batman in TDKR.. the better. They just didn't know how to portray him very well anymore at that point, and the voice had degraded. Bruce was a better Batman than Batman was in a lot of ways, so I was happy with just that.

Boggles me that they nailed it in Begins and then somehow lost touch with it over ime, but I'd rather have it rubbed in as little as possible.
Not to argue the merits of the voice for like the umpteenth time, but I felt it was streamlined just as good as in TDKR as it was in BB - "Where is the trigger?" not withstanding, lol.

But we needed at least one more scene of Bale in the suit doing something Batman-like and an extension of some of the Batman scenes during the final battle. The characterizations of Batman in BB and TDK were perfect for me, in that we had the shadowy/creature of the night in BB and a more "on-the-go" crime-fighting Batman, in his prime, in TDK.

I liked where they were going with the whole legendary status and possible past his prime take on Batman/Bruce. I just wish we had some more of Bale in the suit, but that's probably my inner fan boy nitpicking.

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:21 PM   #119
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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The Dark Knight Rises is, IMO, the weakest of the Nolan films. It's just not as strong from a story/character perspective as BB or TDK.
Exactly.

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Or it just wasn't as good as the previous films. I have rewached it many times and it just hold up as well as the other two.
Hear hear. Getting really old hearing that same weak excuse that it's getting criticized just because it wasn't TDK 2.0

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #120
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Exactly.



Hear hear. Getting really old hearing that same weak excuse that it's getting criticized just because it wasn't TDK 2.0
Sorry. Did an edit on that second quote of mine

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #121
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

The focus of the film is Bruce Wayne. Name any element of the film and it ultimately ties back to Bruce's character, be it symbolically or literally.

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:24 PM   #122
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

It was just not a very well delivered movie when compared to the other two. The other two had me interested. Had me hooked. This one didn't. I keep drifting off in large parts. It's just not as interesting.

And it's such a shame.

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:43 PM   #123
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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Not to argue the merits of the voice for like the umpteenth time, but I felt it was streamlined just as good as in TDKR as it was in BB - "Where is the trigger?" not withstanding, lol.
I didn't mind "Where is the trigger?" like most people do (weird, I know), but I did mind the bit right after that: "WHARISZZHAT." He even does this stupid looking thing with his lips that reminds me of fan parodies before the movie came out that were vastly exaggerating the negativity of the voice for humor's sake.

It was almost like he was doing an impression of them.

The only other time I ever felt like this in the trilogy was the "Ex-communicated by a gang of psychopaths" line.

Other than those two offenses, it was shifty between fine to a little disappointing in TDK, and rocky-to-tolerable in TDKR. And 90-something% awesome in Begins.

My favorite delivery in TDK is probably his scolding Harvey the first time he flips the coin while interrogating a dude, before he becomes Two-Face. The Joker goon with the Rachel Dawes badge.

Oh, and also the "You're the one holding the gun, Harvey" bit.

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The characterizations of Batman in BB and TDK were perfect for me, in that we had the shadowy/creature of the night in BB and a more "on-the-go" crime-fighting Batman, in his prime, in TDK.
I thought TDK definitely nailed the 'on-the-go' thing. And 'prep-time'.

He was a little clumsy outside of that though, which didn't make sense to me after how efficient he was in Begins.

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I liked where they were going with the whole legendary status and possible past his prime take on Batman/Bruce. I just wish we had some more of Bale in the suit, but that's probably my inner fan boy nitpicking.
I was secretly wishing for another suit upgrade. Just to see Bale looking fresh and super cool, fix some of the aesthetic problems I had with the TDK suit.

Ohhhh well.

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:46 PM   #124
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

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The focus of the film is Bruce Wayne. Name any element of the film and it ultimately ties back to Bruce's character, be it symbolically or literally.
Is this really an issue with anybody?

I spent a lot of time defending The Dark Knight in this respect, and it was understandable how some people couldn't see it, but Rises? It seems like quiiite a stretch to say Bruce isn't the obvious focus there!

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Old 03-03-2013, 06:52 PM   #125
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Yeah that's why there was numerous complaints about too much Blake, not enough Catwoman, too much Bruce and too little Batman, Tate/Talia being under developed, wasting time on bad characters like Foley etc because TDKR was so successful at being more focused on the characters.

It was the least successful one at handling it's characters, IMO. BB and TDK had a much stronger and more focused narrative.
Numerous complaints? Lol, hardly. A few posts on here doesn't equate to numerous. If there were as you would love to believe, I would have heard some outside of these forums, but I really don't.

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