Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show? - Part 1

[Son of Coul]

TUNE IN NEXT TIME, KIDs!

[metaphysician]

Sweet Jesus. We need an infusion of actual information, stat!

Also, it really doesn't matter whether RDJ et al cameo or not. No one owes anyone an apology for doubting claims presented without evidence. The fact that a prediction turns out correct doesn't change its prior "no evidence" status; it was still presented without evidence.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

It's not meaningless if the reaction of the fake out has repercussions. It shows SHIELD, Coulson, and Fury as duplicitous.

Can the Avengers maintain their bonds over being lied to in this way or would it tear them apart?

It wouldn't tear them apart because they don't report to SHIELD. Or to Nick Fury. That's the point of the Avengers: they are a superhero team formed by superheroes.

Fury might have been the one to start the "Initiative" (at least in the MCU; comics: totally different). But TA1 showed the team rebelling against his authority and coming together *in spite* of his duplicity and manipulation. I'd be willing to bet a shiny silver quarter that TA2 will take them even farther from Fury and SHIELD's aegis (pun) and work towards the self-contained democracy that the comic-book Avengers truly are. (616)

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

It wouldn't tear them apart because they don't report to SHIELD. Or to Nick Fury. That's the point of the Avengers: they are a superhero team formed by superheroes.

Fury might have been the one to start the "Initiative" (at least in the MCU; comics: totally different). But TA1 showed the team rebelling against his authority and coming together *in spite* of his duplicity and manipulation. I'd be willing to bet a shiny silver quarter that TA2 will take them even farther from Fury and SHIELD's aegis (pun) and work towards the self-contained democracy that the comic-book Avengers truly are. (616)

They put aside their differences when Coulson died. In my perspective, the Avengers came together *because* of Fury's manipulation. He, along with the rest of SHIELD, was a big part of what brought them together. It's understandable to think something like that might tear them apart or cause conflict within the team, especially if SHIELD brings them together again for TA2, and especially if Hawkeye and Widow(agents of SHIELD) are still on the team.

[jaqua99]

I am with Sam. It's different. They didn't come together because of fury. Sure, they came together because of Fury's manipulations, but was it a concious decision? No. They came together because of Coulson's death.

They decided to avenge his death and come together and fight. Yes, if you will, through manipulation, coulson died due to fury's manipulation. However, fury didn't manipulate the avengers directly at his own hand into coming together. He manipulated, and caused a series of events that he knew the Avengers would respond in a unifying way to. He didn't manipulate their decisions. He manipulated events to get a certain reaction out of them. It's indirect.

The Avengers made the decision to come together cause of coulson's death. Whether or not shield played a role in it, or manipulated things is irrelevant. The simple fact is that the avengers came together because of one thing only, Coulson's supposed death. That's what they reacted to. and as Sam said, they don't answer to shield.

So no, this won't tear them up, finding out Fury lied. Because they came togeth beccause of Coulson dying. They CHOSE to come together after Coulson dying. It was THEIR decision to come together.

get what I mean?

[psylockolussus]

I hope ABC picks up the show and air it on Sundays.

[flickchick85]

Ugh, any night but Sunday, please.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I am with Sam. It's different. They didn't come together because of fury. Sure, they came together because of Fury's manipulations, but was it a concious decision? No. They came together because of Coulson's death.

They decided to avenge his death and come together and fight. Yes, if you will, through manipulation, coulson died due to fury's manipulation. However, fury didn't manipulate the avengers directly at his own hand into coming together. He manipulated, and caused a series of events that he knew the Avengers would respond in a unifying way to. He didn't manipulate their decisions. He manipulated events to get a certain reaction out of them. It's indirect.

The Avengers made the decision to come together cause of coulson's death. Whether or not shield played a role in it, or manipulated things is irrelevant. The simple fact is that the avengers came together because of one thing only, Coulson's supposed death. That's what they reacted to. and as Sam said, they don't answer to shield.

So no, this won't tear them up, finding out Fury lied. Because they came togeth beccause of Coulson dying. They CHOSE to come together after Coulson dying. It was THEIR decision to come together.

get what I mean?

Fury using those cards was was the manipulation that I was referring to, and it did clearly work. And SHIELD is responsible for bringing the Avengers together, which has been their goal since Iron Man. They have played a direct hand in rounding the Avengers up. It is not irrelevant because Fury is in charge of SHIELD, and the members of the Avengers that are not agents of SHIELD(Hawkeye, Widow, and quite possibly Falcon). Also, yes, Coulson's death was what brought them together. If they found out that Coulson was not really dead, and Fury never told them about it knowing how much news of his death devastated them? Of course they have a right to feel betrayed by Fury and the rest of SHIELD if that is the case. So then, where do the SHIELD agents of the team go? Probably with SHIELD, and so that understandably has a strong possibility of breaking the team up(albeit, temporarily). And how does Captain America respond to this? Remember, if not for SHIELD, his body wouldn't have been found and he wouldn't be here.

No matter how this goes down, there is a strong possibility this may break the team up for the points I have just mentioned.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

Fury using those cards was was the manipulation that I was referring to, and it did clearly work. And SHIELD is responsible for bringing the Avengers together, which has been their goal since Iron Man. They have played a direct hand in rounding the Avengers up. It is not irrelevant because Fury is in charge of SHIELD, and the members of the Avengers that are not agents of SHIELD(Hawkeye, Widow, and quite possibly Falcon). Also, yes, Coulson's death was what brought them together. If they found out that Coulson was not really dead, and Fury never told them about it knowing how much news of his death devastated them? Of course they have a right to feel betrayed by Fury and the rest of SHIELD if that is the case. So then, where do the SHIELD agents of the team go? Probably with SHIELD, and so that understandably has a strong possibility of breaking the team up(albeit, temporarily). And how does Captain America respond to this? Remember, if not for SHIELD, his body wouldn't have been found and he wouldn't be here.

No matter how this goes down, there is a strong possibility this may break the team up for the points I have just mentioned.

It's definitely not going to affect Tony, Bruce, or Thor; those three are operating outside the bounds of SHIELD and/or Fury for sure, and always will. ("Tony Stark: Director of SHIELD" from the comic books these days notwithstanding.) The "SHIELD half" presumably constitutes Widow, Hawkeye, Cap, and Falcon. But how long they remain loyal to SHIELD is anybody's guess; could well be that events in CATWS cause them to lose faith in Fury/SHIELD altogether and break off, essentially letting the Avengers become their own thing.

There's a way the whole "Coulson is alive!" thing can still be kept quiet from the Avengers, to prevent a team crisis like you're describing: simply keep Coulson in the shadows. He can be a "shadow director" of the agents in the TV show, and still answer in secret to Fury or Hill, but have it such that he is not allowed to reveal himself to the Avengers under any circumstances.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

It's definitely not going to affect Tony, Bruce, or Thor; those three are operating outside the bounds of SHIELD and/or Fury for sure, and always will. ("Tony Stark: Director of SHIELD" from the comic books these days notwithstanding.) The "SHIELD half" presumably constitutes Widow, Hawkeye, Cap, and Falcon. But how long they remain loyal to SHIELD is anybody's guess; could well be that events in CATWS cause them to lose faith in Fury/SHIELD altogether and break off, essentially letting the Avengers become their own thing.

There's a way the whole "Coulson is alive!" thing can still be kept quiet from the Avengers, to prevent a team crisis like you're describing: simply keep Coulson in the shadows. He can be a "shadow director" of the agents in the TV show, and still answer in secret to Fury or Hill, but have it such that he is not allowed to reveal himself to the Avengers under any circumstances.

My point is that it has a strong chance of affecting the Avengers as a team. I'm not saying Tony, Bruce, or Thor will leave the team, but this is something that could potentially break up the team. Although those three would be left, that doesn't change the fact that the team has been broken up.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

My point is that it has a strong chance of affecting the Avengers as a team. I'm not saying Tony, Bruce, or Thor will leave the team, but this is something that could potentially break up the team. Although those three would be left, that doesn't change the fact that the team has been broken up.

Maybe. I see it as actually bringing the team closer *together*: if even the "SHIELD half" feels like they've been betrayed by Fury, they're likely to revolt against him and SHIELD and form a tighter unit as Avengers, operating almost in defiance and opposition to SHIELD and the WSC.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Maybe. I see it as actually bringing the team closer *together*: if even the "SHIELD half" feels like they've been betrayed by Fury, they're likely to revolt against him and SHIELD and form a tighter unit as Avengers, operating almost in defiance and opposition to SHIELD and the WSC.

Yes, it would bring the team closer together ultimately. But not before it causes them to go through a break up.

You can't say the SHIELD half is likely to revolt against Fury because neither Hawkeye nor Widow have shown that they would possibly revolt against Fury or SHIELD at this point. If you remember, Widow defended SHIELD when the Avengers were all arguing in the wishbone lab on the helicarrier. She knew Fury was keeping that from The Avengers, and if not, she had just found out. Yet she didn't back down from defending SHIELD in that situation.

I don't think there are any "maybes" when something like this is perfectly logical and what should be expected to happen in this case.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

I hope ABC picks up the show and air it on Sundays.

I am so looking forward to the day when this, The Walking Dead, and Arrow are all airing.

Originally Posted by flickchick85

Ugh, any night but Sunday, please.

I can see them possibly giving it Wednesday's at 9.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I can see them possibly giving it Wednesday's at 9.

That would certainly be preferable for me. It seems like Sunday night is where the top cable networks (HBO, Showtime & AMC) put their heavy hitters. My DVR doesn't need a broadcast network throwing their hat into that ring as well. And considering some of those cable shows are geek favorites, I don't think ABC needs that kind of competition from these shows with well-established audiences in the same demo either.

[Sawyer]

Just not Thursdays at 8.

[Whiskey Tango]

I couldn't even begin to guess a good airtime. What few shows I watch get DVR'd for six weeks then watched in batches.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

That would certainly be preferable for me. It seems like Sunday night is where the top cable networks (HBO, Showtime & AMC) put their heavy hitters. My DVR doesn't need a broadcast network throwing their hat into that ring as well. And considering some of those cable shows are geek favorites, I don't think ABC needs that kind of competition from these shows with well-established audiences in the same demo either.

Yeah. During Fall, Boardwalk Empire, Dexter, Homeland, and The Walking Dead all air between 8 and 9...although Dexter is airing in June this year.

Anyway, yeah, Sunday is a pretty live-action drama heavy day. Wednesdays at 9 would also be nice for me because it would mean Arrow/SHIELD back-to-back.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Just not Thursdays at 8.

Because of BBT?

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Yeah. During Fall, Boardwalk Empire, Dexter, Homeland, and The Walking Dead all air between 8 and 9...although Dexter is airing in June this year.

Anyway, yeah, Sunday is a pretty live-action drama heavy day. Wednesdays at 9 would also be nice for me because it would mean Arrow/SHIELD back-to-back.

Yep, and even though it's not in the fall, Game of Thrones generally begins airing before the end of the standard broadcast season as well. Just way too much competition on that night throughout the year, imo.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Because of BBT?

That and it's generally just an awful timeslot for the network. New shows in particular.

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

Now that would be awesome.

And then Avengers can split from SHIELD finally .

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

I couldn't even begin to guess a good airtime. What few shows I watch get DVR'd for six weeks then watched in batches.

I'm with you. I don't care when it's scheduled because I don't watch network TV as a general rule. It will have to be DVR'd because otherwise I would just forget to watch it. I thought people were through letting networks dictate the times they watch shows (and the 20-odd minutes of commercials crammed into each hour). I'm certainly over it.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by xeno000

I'm with you. I don't care when it's scheduled because I don't watch network TV as a general rule. It will have to be DVR'd because otherwise I would just forget to watch it. I thought people were through letting networks dictate the times they watch shows (and the 20-odd minutes of commercials crammed into each hour). I'm certainly over it.

I DVR everything too, but the problem is that many DVR's like mine are only able to record 2 programs at the same time, so crowded time slots (like Sunday nights around 9 and 10 o'clock) are still an issue for me.

[blalex620]

I watch everything online now

[Guerrilla]

On Avengers being pissed at SHIELD and Fury: Coulson would have to share a good portion of this blame as well. Would they all be like "You're alive!! Woohoo!" Hugs.?? Maybe for a second. Then they would be all like "WTF Coulson? Not cool." The whole Avengers as a completely separate thing from SHIELD except when they pretty much HAVE to work together is going to rock, if it goes that way. Hell, that may be a base theme for the show.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Guerrilla

On Avengers being pissed at SHIELD and Fury: Coulson would have to share a good portion of this blame as well. Would they all be like "You're alive!! Woohoo!" Hugs.?? Maybe for a second. Then they would be all like "WTF Coulson? Not cool." The whole Avengers as a completely separate thing from SHIELD except when they pretty much HAVE to work together is going to rock, if it goes that way. Hell, that may be a base theme for the show.

Yeah, actually, after I posted it, I realized that might be *exactly* the way they'll explain Coulson, as well as the reason this show will never (and *can* never) cross paths with the Avenger movies. Might even be part of Coulson's emotional arc, that it pains him to be forever separated from his true heroes.

And Coulson need not be an actual "guilty party." Everything we saw of him and his "death" in the Avengers could be taken at face value; it's just that instead of being taken away for a funeral (which, btw, was never shown or even implied), he's taken to a secret medical facility at Fury's orders, and when he finally recovers from his wounds, Fury tells him about the charade he created that they both have to maintain now.