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Old 03-10-2013, 01:15 PM   #51
milost
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

"If I take that off will you die?"


"It'd be extremely painful!"



I thought they were actually going to go there at the end of the film. Not just a couple of loose tubes that can easily be put back into place like a cheap erector set. Would have been great to see Batman smash that dope's face in, then rip off the mask for this great reveal after he's had enough.


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Old 03-10-2013, 01:20 PM   #52
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Oh, I thought that was going to happen as well, but I had no problem with what happened with Batman just breaking off the tubes and what not.

Plus, I can't really think of an area to have Talia's speech anyways if Bane just dies with nothing for Talia to do in helping her protector.

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Old 03-10-2013, 01:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

I could see it working if you cut Talia/Miranda Tate out of the picture entirely.

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Old 03-10-2013, 01:35 PM   #54
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Ehh, I wouldn't want that to happen, lol.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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I've loved almost everyone of the villain endings (Except Scarecrow's in BB and Talia's lame death). And Bane's especially I love. I don't get the dislike towards it at all. He ends with a badass line and is about to blow Batman's head off, just to be stopped and literally blown away by a classic save the day comeback from Selina. Her comeback always puts a big smile on my face, like Han Solo coming back a shooting Vader away in Star Wars.

And getting a frikkin cannon shot to the chest is a pretty hard way to go out isn't it? It's not like he pussied out or got lamely taken down (like Scarecrow with a teaser). The moment was brilliantly edited and executed too, I love that it was not treated as some big ceremonial thing. The quick thing was more surprising and refreshing in a way, and Bane wanted some big ceremonial martyr-esque death, and I'm glad he didn't get it.
I completely agree. Bane's death was sudden, non-chalant and brutal- just like the every single person he killed in the movie. You're right, both him and Talia were suicidal terrorists who were planning to go out in a giant blaze of glory. I actually think both of their rather pathetic demises were well-deserved. And what's even better is they both died thinking they had succeeded in the mission.

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I guess to explain why I didn't care for Bane's send off is kinda answered in your posting. Being a fan or the original Star Wars Trilogy, I would have been pretty disappointed had Leia blown away Vader in a similar style to Catwoman blowing away Bane. Just my opinion though.
Ah, if we're talking Episode IV, Selena is so much closer to the Han Solo character than she is to Leia, no? Her archetype is that of the rogue only looking out for herself who ends up having a heart of gold which is so Han Solo when you really think about it. I think 747's analogy is perfect.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:08 PM   #56
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

To be honest, I wouldn't have liked it if Han Solo had killed off Vader either if that helps...lol.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:10 PM   #57
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

I don't think he killed Ra's at all, the plan with blowing up the monorail was to stop the train and destroy the microwave emitter to stop the whole city being poisoned. I think knowing Ra's would fight to the death and that he couldnt really overpower him to save him, Bruce made the decision to let him die since thats what Ra's was willing to do to see his plan succeed anyways. It wasnt premeditated to kill him, more of a last minute decision to let him die because thats what he wanted either in success or failure. Thats how i saw it anyway.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:23 PM   #58
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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To be honest, I wouldn't have liked it if Han Solo had killed off Vader either if that helps...lol.
Fair enough. But for all intents and purposes of Episode IV, Han is the one who "beat" or "dealt with" Vader. If there had never been a sequel than that shot of his Tie Advanced rolling out of control would be have the last we saw of Vader. Whereas in TDKR, Batman had already handily defeated Bane in the way that mattered.

Anyway, I know this won't change your mind about Bane's death- just trying to put it in a different context so you can maybe see where I and others are coming from.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:32 PM   #59
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

I appreciate the civility. Its always nice to have around. When I was talking about Vader's ending, I was thinking of Episode 6 actually..so I think there was some miscommunication on my part. What I meant has Leia or Han been the final person to have offed Vader, I wouldn't have liked it.
Bane was a great character and I thought his send off was pretty anticlimatic. But hey, that's me. If others think it was great, I'm totally cool with that too and do appreciate differing opinions other then my own.

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Old 03-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #60
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Batman is the one who stabbed the controls, actually. I was confused by this but if you watch closely it's Bats. That was his back up plan, "who said anything about stopping it?"
I'm almost positive what happens is that Ra's stabs the controls to prevent Batman from stopping the train (because he thinks that's Bruce's plan), but Bruce's real plan is to derail the train, so all he did was do Bruce a favor.


On topic, the only issue I ever had with a villain ending was Bane's on my first viewing, only because I didn't realize he was dead until he never showed up again, haha. Now it's fine though.

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Old 03-10-2013, 03:42 PM   #61
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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I knew it was always Ra's myself. Didn't think that'd be something Batman would have done anyways since he already has a Plan B with Gordon in the Tumbler.
Yeah, I just re-watched that scene on youtube, and yes it is Ra's who damages the controls. That part of the scene is cut really fast. Funny how I finally noticed it now, years later.

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Old 03-10-2013, 05:13 PM   #62
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I guess in terms of a rating system, I'd go with Bane having the worst ending out of all of them....by far. While I love Scarecrow he never really came across as a big threat, and as for Talia, I didn't much care for the character anyways. Bane was builit up to be such an intimidating huge pressence of power, and to be blown away with suck lackluster and then followed up with a cheesy one liner by Catwoman really was lousy. Soon to be quoted.
I actually like it was Catwoman who did it and her line was spot on. It is just executed with such abruptness that it feels odd. Part of me felt that was intentional because Nolan likes undercutting the image.

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Old 03-10-2013, 06:46 PM   #63
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Yes, he does. Usually I don't really mind it, as I like that it forces you to pay strict attention, but I remember it took me like 3 viewings of Begins to realize what the "leverage" Batman gave Rachel by the subway was.

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Old 03-10-2013, 06:48 PM   #64
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

What was the leverage in begins?

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Old 03-10-2013, 06:53 PM   #65
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

The pictures of Judge Faden with young prostitutes.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:07 PM   #66
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Yes, he does. Usually I don't really mind it, as I like that it forces you to pay strict attention, but I remember it took me like 3 viewings of Begins to realize what the "leverage" Batman gave Rachel by the subway was.
And they say Nolan-Bats does zero detective work.


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Old 03-10-2013, 08:11 PM   #67
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Because he doesn't!

lol.

Plus, the way Catwoman kills Bane...it's as if "beauty kills the beast" in a way. But, I mostly saw it as Bane getting a cheap ending the way he wanted to kill Batman: cheap and not the way Bane was perceived to be the entire film beforehand.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:12 PM   #68
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The pictures of Judge Faden with young prostitutes.
I completely missed that. Thanks.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:19 PM   #69
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Because he doesn't!

lol.

Plus, the way Catwoman kills Bane...it's as if "beauty kills the beast" in a way. But, I mostly saw it as Bane getting a cheap ending the way he wanted to kill Batman: cheap and not the way Bane was perceived to be the entire film beforehand.
But he's the WGD, dammit!


I never had a problem with Catwoman killing Bane, It's just Catwoman's quip at the expense of Bane's importance as a villain. Had Batman chastised her about taking a life I think it would have went a lot better.

Hell, had we seen Selina and Bane in more than one scene, showing her reluctance to work with Bane; knowing his plans for Gotham's "revolution" were far too extreme for what she had thought she bargained for, would have made Bane's conclusion a lot better.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:27 PM   #70
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Hell, had we seen Selina and Bane in more than one scene, showing her reluctance to work with Bane; knowing his plans for Gotham's "revolution" were far too extreme for what she had thought she bargained for, would have made Bane's conclusion a lot better.
I have a feeling that if IMAX length limitations and the fact the general audience probably couldn't sit though a 400 minute movie, we'd have gotten that and a lot more.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:29 PM   #71
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But he's the WGD, dammit!


I never had a problem with Catwoman killing Bane, It's just Catwoman's quip at the expense of Bane's importance as a villain. Had Batman chastised her about taking a life I think it would have went a lot better.

Hell, had we seen Selina and Bane in more than one scene, showing her reluctance to work with Bane; knowing his plans for Gotham's "revolution" were far too extreme for what she had thought she bargained for, would have made Bane's conclusion a lot better.
I think that quick idea of Catwoman bringing Batman into the sewers for Bane was fine enough without any real scene of the two being in cohorts because it adds to this mystery of Bane and Selina just gets her payback for having to send Bruce to that misery.

BUT...I will say the line from Selina could've been cut out though.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:31 PM   #72
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I have a feeling that if IMAX length limitations and the fact the general audience probably couldn't sit though a 400 minute movie, we'd have gotten that and a lot more.
It seems that way. But I'm not really sure a longer cut, without IMAX limitations, would have given us a significantly different or better film. But it's fairly obvious some of the breathing room was cut out of the film because of IMAX.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:34 PM   #73
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It seems that way. But I'm not really sure a longer cut, without IMAX limitations, would have given us a significantly different or better film. But it's fairly obvious some of the breathing room was cut out of the film because of IMAX.
A fact that greatly saddens me. It seems, rather than cut whole scenes out, Nolan opted to cut out little bits from almost every scene. The result, as you said, is a distinct lack of breathing room.

I still haven't forgiven him for the things he cut out of the scene where Alfred confesses about the letter

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:36 PM   #74
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I think that quick idea of Catwoman bringing Batman into the sewers for Bane was fine enough without any real scene of the two being in cohorts because it adds to this mystery of Bane and Selina just gets her payback for having to send Bruce to that misery.

BUT...I will say the line from Selina could've been cut out though.
I expected Bane and Selina to have a few scenes together. This could have happened if the second act was restructured. Selina was extremely non-existent there.

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Old 03-10-2013, 08:42 PM   #75
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A fact that greatly saddens me. It seems, rather than cut whole scenes out, Nolan opted to cut out little bits from almost every scene. The result, as you said, is a distinct lack of breathing room.

I still haven't forgiven him for the things he cut out of the scene where Alfred confesses about the letter
Dude, while I love those scenes with Bruce and Alfred, the scenes where Bruce puts the leg brace on, and the scene where Alfred leaves, you just know that the IMAX limitations hindered those scenes, even if it were the slightest.

I remember a few lines that were cut out - Bruce mentioning he failed as Bruce and Alfred replying with you can afford to fail as Bruce Wayne, but as Batman you can't afford to.

I still love Nolan, but I'm almost wondering if he's letting, or let; his love for IMAX ruin his films. Classic case of style vs substance.

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