Favorite Spider-Man film so far.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by def28

I'm sure thats true to an extent, I still think there are alot more cases were people would choose Spidey 1 over it if Spidey 2 wasn't an option. TBH that board is about the only place I really hear a positive attitude for ASM on the net or just in general. I have seen quite a bit more praise for the first two Raimi films over ASM. With Spidey 3 getting the most hate of them all. Not saying that speaks for everyone in anyway, just what I have personally seen.

Funny how that works, because everyone I've either talked in real life to or saw TASM with preferred that one over SM1. We all have different experiences, making it impossible to gauge what "the majority" thinks from personal experience, but the impartial audiences polled by CinemaScore gave TASM an "A-" and an "A" from the younger crowd, so I don't think it's looked at nearly as unfavorably by general audiences as you seem to think.

I'm not out to bash Raimi's movies. I never cared for his casting or take on the characters in general, but he and Singer pretty much ushered in the modern CBM era we're living in today, and I respect his craftsmanship a great deal. I just don't see the need to make a definitive statement that one incarnation is superior when both are generally well-liked by critics and audiences and financially successful, and one of them is only just getting started. You prefer Raimi's version. A lot of people do. That's great. I prefer Webb's. A lot of other people prefer that version as well. That means they both did something right. Which is awesome. IMO, we should be thankful that we have two well-made incarnations of this character that appeal to people of different tastes. It just speaks to Spidey's versatile appeal as a character.

[def28]

I agree Flickchick. Not trying to change any opinons here. What I hear and read from friends and the net in no way reflects fact. It's just what Im around. So alot of my opinion on how these films played to an audience comes from that.Did not know about that cinema score. Im sure theres a solid chance my perception is off, and I'm glad that both films have been a hit regardless of my opinons. I want a future with tons of Spidey films.

Personally I have gave the film enough chances on my own, paid for it twice in theatres and picked up the blu ray. From the script to editing I just felt the film had some legit problems. More so then the first two Raimi pictures as a whole, style and creative choices aside. While I love 1 and 2, I never gave 3 any passes so I treat this film the same. Ultimately there really wasnt much for me to like. Really wanted to dig ASM, and hope the sequel plays stronger for me. I think Webb is alot more capable of telling a stronger narrative, and the cast is just as solid if not better then the first tril. I also believe much like studio issues prevented Spider-Man 3 from being stronger this happened with ASM as well. Not 100% sure Webb was able to make the film he wanted since the film was developed before he was on.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by def28

When its that big of a difference in votes/year of release and coming from Rotten Tomatoes users, yeah it does. X3 and X men Origins have high fan reviews there. So I wouldnt exactly go there for accurate info.

ASM is probably gonna drop in the nest 5 years. Its a new film with barely any votes. Maybe it will go up, who knows. Point is its gonna change more then likely, its still new on there. Comparing the percentage to a film that has had an audience for a decade is hardly fair.

Bingo.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

ASM has a much higher user rating on RottenTomatoes than SM1.

So I'm not sure where people get the idea that SM1 is more well liked by the public.

Part of that is because nerd squabbles result in people signing up to new accounts just for the sole purpose of voting negatively for one over the other. When TDK came out, a whole bunch of Batman fans voted 1 out of 10 for Return of the King and The Godfather. In turn, fans of those films voted 1's for TDK. Stupid things like this call public opinion polls, like RT or IMDB into question.

TASM has a fan in the new generation of Spider-Man fans. SM1 still has many whom prefer it vastly over Webb's vision. Wake me up in 10 more years, and we'll see which stands the test of time. I predict it will be SM1 because it was a game changer for its time. TASM wasn't. It was just another decent superhero film.

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't understand the double standard.

People have no problem saying SM1 is much more liked by the public based on a few friends or hype members.

But when there's a database that collects hundreds of thousands of people's votes, we have to ignore it because it's not enough votes or because it has to be due to one-sided spamming that ASM is winning.

I'm sorry but if RT's hundreds of thousand of votes are useless then so is whatever method you use to determine SM1 is more popular than ASM.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Here's the top 8 CBM based on RT user ratings:

1) The Avengers - 96%

2) The Dark Knight - 96%

3) The Dark Knight Rises - 93%

4) Iron Man - 91%

5) Batman Begins - 90%

6) X-men First Class - 88%

7) X2 - 84%

8) X-men - 83%

That doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

If it was so inaccurate due to spamming or low voting then why aren't any crappy movies on the list?

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Here's the top 8 CBM based on RT user ratings:

1) The Avengers - 96%

2) The Dark Knight - 96%

3) The Dark Knight Rises - 93%

4) Iron Man - 91%

5) Batman Begins - 90%

6) X-men First Class - 88%

7) X2 - 84%

8) X-men - 83%

That doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

If it was so inaccurate due to spamming or low voting then why aren't any crappy movies on the list?

These films also had people register 50 times to rate them 5 stars or 10's, so yes. They have spam voting on the opposite end of the spectrum as well. Internet polling is easily corrupted because anyone can make 5 million accounts and continuously vote. So, once again...no public opinion poll on the internet is absolute, nor reliable.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I don't understand the double standard.

People have no problem saying SM1 is much more liked by the public based on a few friends or hype members.

But when there's a database that collects hundreds of thousands of people's votes, we have to ignore it because it's not enough votes or because it has to be due to one-sided spamming that ASM is winning.

I'm sorry but if RT's hundreds of thousand of votes are useless then so is whatever method you use to determine SM1 is more popular than ASM.

Fact is, there is no great way to determine which is more popular. When it comes to online polling, much of it is very inaccurate. Most newer films have higher scores than older films for long periods of time on IMDB, etc. That is because they're new. That is when everyone votes the 10s, etc.

But, my post wasn't about which film people liked more (which like I said, I feel people 24ish and younger prob prefer TASM, and 25+ prob SM1 in most cases). Mine was about 20 years from now, which film will still be discussed. SM1 was an event. TASM, whether you love it or hate it, wasn't. It did well at the BO, but it wasn't the record breaking box office juggernaut SM1 was at the time. The entire city of NY sold out for the entire 3 day weeked on SM1's first day of release. I could get a ticket to see TASM opening day an hour before the showtime. That is why in 20 years, I don't see it being remembered like SM1 was.

[elsewhere]

I don't really like any of the Spider-Man films. But I suppose Spider-Man 2 would be the least flawed.

Spider-Man 2
The Amazing Spider-Man
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 3

In that order, I guess.

[def28]

Something is def up with the Spidey 1 RT fan votes. 32 mill user ratings is insane. Non of the other comic films even have 5 mil or 1 for that matter. Including Super Man, Batman and X-men. Dark KNight is like the second highest with like 1.2. Spidey 2 is barely over 1.

Only other film Ive seen with that high of votes is Titanic with 35 mil. And its percentage is in the 60's.

[ChukNoris]

I didn't really enjoy TASM. It was just Spider-man (1) with a different actor (besides the Lizard villain change of course).

Spider-man 2
Spider-man
TASM
Spider-man 3

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Fact is, there is no great way to determine which is more popular. When it comes to online polling, much of it is very inaccurate. Most newer films have higher scores than older films for long periods of time on IMDB, etc. That is because they're new. That is when everyone votes the 10s, etc.

But, my post wasn't about which film people liked more (which like I said, I feel people 24ish and younger prob prefer TASM, and 25+ prob SM1 in most cases). Mine was about 20 years from now, which film will still be discussed. SM1 was an event. TASM, whether you love it or hate it, wasn't. It did well at the BO, but it wasn't the record breaking box office juggernaut SM1 was at the time. The entire city of NY sold out for the entire 3 day weeked on SM1's first day of release. I could get a ticket to see TASM opening day an hour before the showtime. That is why in 20 years, I don't see it being remembered like SM1 was.

SM1 was an event because it was the first Spider-man movie, which was a big deal at the time.

It was the biggest superhero to have a debut movie since Batman (89).

Speaking of Batman (89) is was a much bigger event than Batman Begins but that has nothing to do with quality.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

SM1 was an event because it was the first Spider-man movie, which was a big deal at the time.

It was the biggest superhero to have a debut movie since Batman (89).

Speaking of Batman (89) is was a much bigger event than Batman Begins but that has nothing to do with quality.

Batman Begins was A - much better than TASM was, and B - followed up by TDK, which was a MASSIVE event. So, unless TASM2 does something similar, TASM won't benefit like BB did. further more, when it comes to Nolan's Batman films, TDK is the one most people remember. Sure, BB is there and well regarded, but TDK is the one people will talk about for 20 years.

[kedrell]

I don't think BB was all that much better than TASM. Sure it was better plotted and the villain made more sense but at the same time it also totally screwed up the love interest and had way weaker action scenes(too much shaky cam).

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Batman Begins was A - much better than TASM was, and B - followed up by TDK, which was a MASSIVE event. So, unless TASM2 does something similar, TASM won't benefit like BB did. further more, when it comes to Nolan's Batman films, TDK is the one most people remember. Sure, BB is there and well regarded, but TDK is the one people will talk about for 20 years.

Well it's completely subjective whether Begins is "much" better than ASM. I personally don't like Begins and I'm a huge Batman fan.

My point is that Batman (89) being a much bigger event than Batman Begins says nothing about the quality just like SM1 being a huge event says nothing.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Well it's completely subjective whether Begins is "much" better than ASM. I personally don't like Begins and I'm a huge Batman fan.

My point is that Batman (89) being a much bigger event than Batman Begins says nothing about the quality just like SM1 being a huge event says nothing.

Like I said, you have a preference and that is fine (everyone is entitled to their opinion). But, at same time, all your attempts to prove TASM was a better recieved film essentially add up to nothing as well because you can't.

Originally Posted by kedrell

I don't think BB was all that much better than TASM. Sure it was better plotted and the villain made more sense but at the same time it also totally screwed up the love interest and had way weaker action scenes(too much shaky cam).

I think it was much better plotted conceptually and had a much better overall story. I agree, the love story wasn't good, but the film wasn't about the love story. It was about Bruce Wayne becoming the symbol of Gotham, and since that wasn't the prime focus, it worked. However, several core elements of TASM's story I found very flawed. Thus, BB is just a much better film.

[kedrell]

The only weak link in TASM that I saw was having a mediocre villain. He looked great and the fight scenes were very well done but cutting the family angle out and not really connecting why turning into a lizard suddenly made him want to take over the world pretty much counteract those good points about him so it was just a wash to me. But then, that's been pretty much the high bar for any of Spidey's villains in film so far(matched only by Molina's Ock). The rest haven't even fared that well, IMO.

[Spider-Fan]

Having a mediocre villain really hurt TASM, and the way the film ended really rubbed me the wrong way. I think it undermined the script. Also, BB didn't have any WTF type moments like the whole cranes thing in TASM, which I can't give a pass because it becomes a major point of the film just before the final battle.

Once again, I don't hate TASM. I just thought it was only good and could have been much better.

[kedrell]

I agree that BB is the better film. I just don't think it's a very wide gap in quality.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Fact is, there is no great way to determine which is more popular. When it comes to online polling, much of it is very inaccurate. Most newer films have higher scores than older films for long periods of time on IMDB, etc. That is because they're new. That is when everyone votes the 10s, etc.

But, my post wasn't about which film people liked more (which like I said, I feel people 24ish and younger prob prefer TASM, and 25+ prob SM1 in most cases). Mine was about 20 years from now, which film will still be discussed. SM1 was an event. TASM, whether you love it or hate it, wasn't. It did well at the BO, but it wasn't the record breaking box office juggernaut SM1 was at the time. The entire city of NY sold out for the entire 3 day weeked on SM1's first day of release. I could get a ticket to see TASM opening day an hour before the showtime. That is why in 20 years, I don't see it being remembered like SM1 was.

I agree that SM1 will always be seen as more of a milestone, because it was. But I don't think 20 years from now that will make it universally favored over Webb's. I think 20 years from now, people will still be just as divided over which version they prefer as they are now, even as they acknowledge SM1's significance in the superhero genre.

Just as there are people like myself who acknowledge and appreciate Superman: The Movie's significance in cinematic history but never cared for that incarnation (that will never be my Superman...and there hasn't even been a new cinematic incarnation for me to prefer over it yet), so will be the way with Raimi's Spider-Man, imo. TASM won't be remembered like SM1 because the circumstances surrounding its release were entirely different, but it certainly won't be forgotten, either. Especially since we already know its getting sequels and therefore marked the beginning of its own big-budget franchise, a franchise which will inevitably be the Spider-Man trilogy for a whole new generation.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

I agree that SM1 will always be seen as more of a milestone, because it was. But I don't think 20 years from now that will make it universally favored over Webb's. I think 20 years from now, people will still be just as divided over which version they prefer as they are now, even as they acknowledge SM1's significance in the superhero genre.

Just as there are people like myself who acknowledge and appreciate Superman: The Movie's significance in cinematic history but never cared for that incarnation (that will never be my Superman...and there hasn't even been a new cinematic incarnation to replace it yet), so will be the way with Raimi's Spider-Man, imo. TASM won't be remembered like SM1 because the circumstances surrounding its release were entirely different, but it certainly won't be forgotten, either. Especially since we already know its getting sequels and therefore marked the beginning of its own big-budget franchise, a franchise which will inevitably be the Spider-Man trilogy for a whole new generation.

In the age of reboots, the people 20 years from now will probably be more interested in whatever new franchise reboot they do then, and be less concerned about SM1 vs TASM. It's a relevant debate now only because we have 2 generations growing up with different Spider-Man origin films. I don't see this debate being much of a thought 20 years from now. But, I do think whatever Spidey film comes out during that time will likely be compared more with SM1 than TASM because it was the Superman: The Movie of superhero films of our time.

But, that also brings me back to my point on this whole TASM vs SM1 thing. People are arguing over which was better. Honestly, the one people grew up with 9 times out of 10 is what they willl prefer. I grew up with SM1. I enjoy it more. Now, I do appreciate certain elements of TASM over SM1, but in general, SM1 wins with me (and for the purpose of my point, I am ignoring all the reasons I legitimately feel SM1 is a superior film). Someone like, 8 years younger than me prob likes TASM. I know this isn't a perfect system, but I think it is more accurate than many of the poll metrics people are giving. Just look at Star Wars, few people who grew up with the OT prefer the prequels. The prequels tend to be preferred only by the younger generation of Star Wars fans that feel the effects suck, etc. We like what engages us as we develop. Sure tastes mature, but in general, nostalgia/development will always come into play on issues like this.

[MessiahDecoy123]

So the crane scene in ASM is silly but there's nothing wrong with the a giant Batmobile jumping from rooftop to rooftop in a "realistic" Batman movie.

The Lizard was poorly executed but not a Ras Al Ghul who spoon-feeds a lost and confused Bruce Wayne into becoming Batman (something Bruce was supposed to be totally dedicated to since the day his parent were murdered), ends the movie with a silly city-wide microwave plot and is practically allowed to die by Batman who is never supposed to kill.

Interesting.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

So the crane scene in ASM is silly but there's nothing wrong with the a giant Batmobile jumping from rooftop to rooftop in a "realistic" Batman movie.

The Lizard was poorly executed but not a Ras Al Ghul who spoon-feeds a lost and confused Bruce Wayne into becoming Batman (something Bruce was supposed to be totally dedicated to since the day his parent were murdered), ends the movie with a silly city-wide microwave plot and is practically allowed to die by Batman who is never supposed to kill.

Interesting.

In short, yes. For many reasons. But, I'm going to opt not to go into much detail as this is not a Batman vs Spider-Man thread. You can PM me if you wish to continue this debate.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

In the age of reboots, the people 20 years from now will probably be more interested in whatever new franchise reboot they do then, and be less concerned about SM1 vs TASM. It's a relevant debate now only because we have 2 generations growing up with different Spider-Man origin films. I don't see this debate being much of a thought 20 years from now. But, I do think whatever Spidey film comes out during that time will likely be compared more with SM1 than TASM because it was the Superman: The Movie of superhero films of our time.

True, but unlike Superman: The Movie, there are TWO high profile cinematic incarnations of this hero out, so I believe both of these films/franchises will be compared with whatever the new incarnation is at the time because as I said, with this being the beginning of another major franchise which will likely be the go-to Spidey for another generation, the chances of it being left out of the conversation are slim-to-none. Which basically makes the debate the same as it is now, only with 3 contenders in the ring instead of two. Again, SM1 will always be considered the milestone one - I'm not arguing with that in the slightest, but I think it's incredibly unlikely that TASM and its forthcoming trilogy will be left out of these debates in the future.

But, that also brings me back to my point on this whole TASM vs SM1 thing. People are arguing over which was better. Honestly, the one people grew up with 9 times out of 10 is what they willl prefer. I grew up with SM1. I enjoy it more. Now, I do appreciate certain elements of TASM over SM1, but in general, SM1 wins with me (and for the purpose of my point, I am ignoring all the reasons I legitimately feel SM1 is a superior film). Someone like, 8 years younger than me prob likes TASM. I know this isn't a perfect system, but I think it is more accurate than many of the poll metrics people are giving. Just look at Star Wars, few people who grew up with the OT prefer the prequels. The prequels tend to be preferred only by the younger generation of Star Wars fans that feel the effects suck, etc. We like what engages us as we develop. Sure tastes mature, but in general, nostalgia/development will always come into play on issues like this.

I'm sure this will be the case for many, but I don't think it holds that much water as a general rule, as I grew up with Raimi's version too, and vastly prefer Webb's, while I grew up with the Star Wars prequels and see them as utter garbage next to the original trilogy.

I do agree with your last statement, though. The nostalgia factor will often play a part for many. Just not all, and not always.

[Brother Jack]

My favorite is Spider-Man 2.

I liked Amazing Spider-Man but didn't love it. The best thing I can say about it is that I think it's a launchpad for a sequel with great potential. They just have to iron out the kinks.