The Joker (The Dark Knight) vs. Bane (TDKR)

[Brain Damage]

I always thought that was Talia. It's left purposefully ambiguous and I love it.

But. Anno, about your Osito/Talia comparison. While I do like that, remember, Bane throws Osito into the ocean with the prison warden when he escapes. He doesn't spend the next 10 years helping Osito get his revenge

[mandisab]

Originally Posted by The Joker

What else do you think he had in mind when he pointed the gun at Batman's face and said "You'll just have to imagine the fire".

Hmmmm that's a real puzzler.

do you really believe all of jokers words??? about not wanting to kill the batman. Buddy this is a man who cant get his story right about the scars, ohh and the whole thing about wanting to do that forever cant convice me because he wanted batman to turn himself in in the first place. why???

[Anno_Domini]

It's not Talia in the stock exchange scene

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

I always thought that was Talia. It's left purposefully ambiguous and I love it.

Still don't see it as her.

When talking about something ambiguous, I look at "Miranda Tate" talking about a plane and going anywhere she and Bruce wanted to after they slept together as a sign of Talia wanted to take Bruce to the Pit herself and Bane being only Plan B of breaking the Bat as Bane said "Ahh, yes...I was wondering what would break first...your spirit...or your body!"

But. Anno, about your Osito/Talia comparison. While I do like that, remember, Bane throws Osito into the ocean with the prison warden when he escapes. He doesn't spend the next 10 years helping Osito get his revenge

Lol, I didn't know the comparison had to be true and true where Bane would have to drown Talia

[milost]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

When talking about something ambiguous, I look at "Miranda Tate" talking about a plane and going anywhere she and Bruce wanted to after they slept together as a sign of Talia wanted to take Bruce to the Pit herself and Bane being only Plan B of breaking the Bat as Bane said "Ahh, yes...I was wondering what would break first...your spirit...or your body!"

What if Bruce never even escaped the pit. Bane and Talia didn't expect him to return or make it out of there, so how would Bruce have ever known that Miranda was Talia. Why make that a part of their plan? Why would she sleep with him and do all that stuff and never reveal herself to him?


And please don't say that the two of them were going to travel all the way back to the prison pit when they hadn't even shown signs of packing up and leaving with less than a day to go before and the fact that "Miranda Tate" was messing around and getting ready for trial before Bruce Wayne even showed back up.

OH, and the fact that outside the city, the government, army, etc. wasn't letting anyone leave.

[Anno_Domini]

Did you ask that question without reading what I said?

Talia would make her reveal with Plan A, but besides that..I don't see the reveal being made at all, and it wouldn't really matter since Talia would have sacrificed herself and Bruce only needs to know that the League of Shadows is behind it.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by mandisab

do you really believe all of jokers words??? about not wanting to kill the batman.

Yes absolutely I believe him about Batman. No question about it. He turned all of Gotham into a murderous mob after Reese just to protect Batman's identity because a world without Batman to him would be boring.

Buddy this is a man who cant get his story right about the scars

What makes you think he's not getting it right? It's taken from the comics about how he remembers his past differently:



Nolan said The Killing Joke was used as an inspiration:

"Yes. I would certainly point to The Killing Joke but I also would point very much to the first two appearances of the Joker in the comic. If you look at where the Joker comes from there's a very clear direction that fits what we're doing very well"
-Christopher Nolan

http://www.retrojunk.com/article/sho...ke-and-batman1

ohh and the whole thing about wanting to do that forever cant convice me because he wanted batman to turn himself in in the first place. why???

Batman: "You wanted me. Here I am"
Joker: "I wanted to see what you'd do. And you didn't disappoint. You let five people die. Then you let Dent take your place. Even to a guy like me that's cold"

Amazing what you learn when you pay attention

Now why don't you explain to me what you thought Bane was going to do with that shotgun pointed at Batman's face other than kill him?

[mandisab]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yes absolutely I believe him about Batman. No question about it. He turned all of Gotham into a murderous mob after Reese just to protect Batman's identity ebcause a world without Batman to him would be boring.



What makes you think he's not getting it right? It's taken from the comics about how he remembers his past differently:



Nolan said The Killing Joke was used as an inspiration:

"Yes. I would certainly point to The Killing Joke but I also would point very much to the first two appearances of the Joker in the comic. If you look at where the Joker comes from there's a very clear direction that fits what we're doing very well"
-Christopher Nolan

http://www.retrojunk.com/article/sho...ke-and-batman1



Batman: "You wanted me. Here I am"
Joker: "I wanted to see what you'd do. And you didn't disappoint. You let five people die. Then you let Dent take your place. Even to a guy like me that's cold"

Amazing what you learn when you pay attention

Now why don't you explain to me what you thought Bane was going to do with that shotgun pointed at Batman's face other than kill him?

right he showed up when the joker was in a cell, and since the joker is always changing his story what makes you think he wont kill batman if he had the chance; plus once batman was revealed as bruce was it goin to be the same for joker??

[milost]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Did you ask that question without reading what I said?

Talia would make her reveal with Plan A, but besides that..I don't see the reveal being made at all, and it wouldn't really matter since Talia would have sacrificed herself and Bruce only needs to know that the League of Shadows is behind it.

Seems sort of odd though. She slept with and made love to the person she seemingly hated? She already took over, she already has everything she needs.


Eh, Talia (and Bane's plan) is nuts and doesn't make much sense anyway. Mustn't look too far into it I guess. Talia should have thanked Bruce considering she didn't know her real father until she was like 10 (how come Ra's didn't come looking for her in that time), Bane was her "protectah", and the two of them were cast out for being weirdos.

Oh that's right, she never got a chance to "truly forgive" her father. I forgot. Still, that romantic/love making session was an odd one. That was another one of those instances (along with the statue, Robin Blake, magic situations, Alfred leaving and crying in every scene) that this was a departure from what came before.

[milost]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yes absolutely I believe him about Batman. No question about it. He turned all of Gotham into a murderous mob after Reese just to protect Batman's identity because a world without Batman to him would be boring.

Yup.

He wanted to kill Batman before, but as soon as he sees that Dent and Batman aren't one in the same (when he sees the Batmobile flying down the tunnel), he makes it a point for the rest of the film to not kill him. The interrogation scene reveals this.

He saw he wasn't ordinary, that he was a "freak" just like him.


Before he wanted Batman's blood, sure, but not after the "hmmph?" in the tunnel.

[mandisab]

SURE you just take out the mask and show us who you really are!!!

[milost]

That's when he thinks he's Dent though. LOL


"I thought you really were Dent, the way you through yourself after her. Hahaha"

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by milost

Seems sort of odd though. She slept with and made love to the person she seemingly hated? She already took over, she already has everything she needs.


Eh, Talia (and Bane's plan) is nuts and doesn't make much sense anyway. Mustn't look too far into it I guess. Talia should have thanked Bruce considering she didn't know her real father until she was like 10 (how come Ra's didn't come looking for her in that time), Bane was her "protectah", and the two of them were cast out for being weirdos.

Oh that's right, she never got a chance to "truly forgive" her father. I forgot. Still, that romantic/love making session was an odd one. That was another one of those instances (along with the statue, Robin Blake, magic situations, Alfred leaving and crying in every scene) that this was a departure from what came before.

Getting someone weak by sleeping with them and falsifying feelings to try and get the person to fly out of the country with her isn't an awful or odd idea at all. It's the best way for a girl to get a guy's attention with sleeping with them.

But, what's the use of trying to help you understand

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by mandisab

right he showed up when the joker was in a cell

So?

and since the joker is always changing his story what makes you think he wont kill batman if he had the chance

Joker is not always changing his story. He changes his backstory about how he got his scars. That's it. Which I've already shown you is from the comic books.

He never makes a direct attempt on Batman's life himself. He could have slit his throat when he had him trapped at the end in the Prewitt building, but he didn't. He could have been rid of Batman for good by letting Reese spill his identity on TV but he didn't. He went and protected him.

So why you think he would suddenly want to kill Batman is beyond me.

plus once batman was revealed as bruce was it goin to be the same for joker??

Batman was never revealed as Bruce to Gotham so your question is redundant. But if he was, then Bruce would be arrested and that would be the end of Batman. Obviously Joker didn't want that because Batman is just too much fun to him.

Now stop dodging my question and answer me: What do you think Bane was going to do with that shotgun pointed at Batman's face at the end other than being a coward and shooting him?

[mandisab]

Originally Posted by milost

That's when he thinks he's Dent though. LOL


"I thought you really were Dent, the way you through yourself after her. Hahaha"

LOL you trust the joker too much you would have gotten yourself killed by the joker as his henchman in a bank, you believe every little word he says.

[milost]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Getting someone weak by sleeping with them and falsifying feelings to try and get the person to fly out of the country with her isn't an awful or odd idea at all. It's the best way for a girl to get a guy's attention with sleeping with them.

But, what's the use of trying to help you understand

She had sex with the man she hated to "weaken him"? He looked pretty pumped jumping off the floor and heading down into the cave to suit up and find Bane to me.

Or do you that she really thought she'd convince Bruce to fly out somewhere (after she was practically given Wayne Enterprises/the board and the clean energy orb). LOL

[mandisab]

Originally Posted by The Joker

So?



Joker is not always changing his story. He changes his backstory about how he got his scars. That's it. Which I've already shown you is from the comic books.

He never makes a direct attempt on Batman's life himself. He could have slit his throat when he had him trapped at the end in the Prewitt building, but he didn't. He could have been rid of Batman for good by letting Reese spill his identity on TV but he didn't. He went and protected him.

So why you think he would suddenly want to kill Batman is beyond me.



Batman was never revealed as Bruce to Gotham so your question is redundant. But if he was, then Bruce would be arrested and that would be the end of Batman. Obviously Joker didn't want that because Batman is just too much fun to him.

Now stop dodging my question and answer me: What do you think Bane was going to do with that shotgun pointed at Batman's face at the end other than being a coward and shooting him?

Ill answer it when you tell me what the joker intended to do with the blade when batman was on the floor

[milost]

Originally Posted by mandisab

LOL you trust the joker too much you would have gotten yourself killed by the joker as his henchman in a bank, you believe every little word he says.

Well, no, the Joker was lying to Dent at the hospital with his "do I look like a guy with a plan" speech to turn him loose onto the city.


Or did you miss that too?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by mandisab

Ill answer it when you tell me what the joker intended to do with the blade when batman was on the floor

Carve a smile on his face.

[milost]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Carve a smile on his face.

"but dat would kill him lol" - Mandisab

[mandisab]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Carve a smile on his face.

Lol ohhh really? how do you know? this is what gets me how can you tell whe never saw that scene.

[mandisab]

Originally Posted by milost

Well, no, the Joker was lying to Dent at the hospital with his "do I look like a guy with a plan" speech to turn him loose onto the city.


Or did you miss that too?

what happened to not being personal??? i dint miss that

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by milost

"but dat would kill him lol" - Mandisab

LOL yes Dent can survive half his face burned away, but some smile shaped scars would kill you.

The Joker must be a ghost then

[milost]

Originally Posted by mandisab

Lol ohhh really? how do you know? this is what gets me how can you tell whe never saw that scene.

Douglass, Patrick Harvey, Richard Dent, maybe Gambol.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought carving smiles were Joker's signature in the movie.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by mandisab

Lol ohhh really? how do you know? this is what gets me how can you tell whe never saw that scene.

I don't know with 100% certainty since as you say we didn't see how it played out because Gordon interrupted him. You asked me what I thought he was going to do and I told you. Given Joker had a knack for cutting smiles on people's faces it's not a big stretch.

You saying Bane might not have been intending to shoot Batman with that shotgun is the height of stupidity.

[milost]

Originally Posted by The Joker

You saying Bane might not have been intending to shoot Batman with that shotgun is the height of stupidity.

Bane was clearly going to give Batman a hit, if you know what I mean.
















Nevermind him saying "we both know I have to kill you now". Hahahaha