The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Spider-Man > Spider-Man 1, 2 & 3

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2013, 12:20 PM   #576
SpideyVille
Walking out the Desert
 
SpideyVille's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The little part of the Big Apple
Posts: 20,714
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

I wonder how different things would have been had SM3 actually been a success.

__________________
SpideyVille is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:23 PM   #577
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Well, I wouldn't say it was a failure, persay. It wasn't loved, but it didn't flop and got average reviews.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:25 PM   #578
SpideyVille
Walking out the Desert
 
SpideyVille's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The little part of the Big Apple
Posts: 20,714
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Well that's what I mean. What would have happened everyone loved SM3? Would we have seen some of the same issues ultimately leading to the decision to reboot it, or would they have given Raimi more creative freedom to make his movie his way.

__________________
SpideyVille is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #579
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by henzINNIT View Post
I'm sure Malkovich confirmed that he was cast as Vulture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
It's not really that complex. There were certain characters that Raimi historically wanted in the series. Vulture (We know he wanted Vulture since Spidey 3) Black Cat and Lizard both of whom were considered since Spidey 2. If Venom, a character he was vocal about NOT wanting to use weren't forced down his throat, Raimi would've produced the series he wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post
Malckovich confirmed he was going to play the Vulture. I think..then a day or two later, the reboot was announced.
But my question is that in the same article confirming Malkovich to be Vulture, it states Hathaway to be the "Vulturess", so why would someone be right with one and not with the other?

http://whatculture.com/film/john-mal...ider-man-4.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpideyVille View Post
I wonder how different things would have been had SM3 actually been a success.
We would have had a Spider-Man 4. But I would rather think of this: if Spider-Man 3 had Vulture instead of Venom, who would have been the villain in a fourth installment if S-M 3 was as big of a hit with critics as Raimi's first two Spidey films?

Lizard maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post
Well, I wouldn't say it was a failure, persay. It wasn't loved, but it didn't flop and got average reviews.
The box office didn't mean a thing apparently as that didn't keep a fourth film from being made and Sony still had eyes on rebooting it, and as average as anyone wants to call it, it's a 63% on RT compared to a 89% for Spider-Man and a 93% for Spider-Man 2. That RT score right there shows me that yes, S-M 3 was a failure.

And for all the comparisons some try to make with S-M 3 and TDKR, at least TDKR can be viewed to be right in the middle of the TDK trilogy with BB being 85%, TDK being 94% and TDKR being 87%.

Anno_Domini is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:51 PM   #580
SpideyVille
Walking out the Desert
 
SpideyVille's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The little part of the Big Apple
Posts: 20,714
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
We would have had a Spider-Man 4. But I would rather think of this: if Spider-Man 3 had Vulture instead of Venom, who would have been the villain in a fourth installment if S-M 3 was as big of a hit with critics as Raimi's first two Spidey films?

Lizard maybe?
Going back to my original question, I think it depended on how much studio involvement was in that film. I mean if they did do Vulture (which I think now would have much more sense in terms of teaming up villains) instead of Venom, then Sam would have had his way and would have gain the trusted of TPTB had that film been a success.

But then again, you have to wonder if they would have tried to force Venom into SM4 and if the results would have been the same. But I think Lizard was definitely next on the list. I really can't seem Sam promoting a movie with someone like Shocker or Rhino before doing someone with a more personal attachment with Peter.

__________________
SpideyVille is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #581
Dragon
No Way as Way
 
Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: New York, NY USA
Posts: 9,989
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
But my question is that in the same article confirming Malkovich to be Vulture, it states Hathaway to be the "Vulturess", so why would someone be right with one and not with the other?
What my recollection is of the events was that Raimi wanted the film to feature the Lizard. The studio nixed the Lizard because they felt it was too bizarre. Then as plan B Raimi wanted the Vulture. In either case, he apparently wanted Black Cat.

But the studio wanted a connection between the Cat and Vulture (One of the scripts that Raimi was unhappy with) and wanted Felicia to be the Vulture's daughter. Thus, Black Cat would be Vultress.

Again, Raimi was the one who didn't like any of the scripts Sony was tossing at him, didn't think he could make the deadline, so he opted out.

__________________
Kwai Cheng: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

Kung-Fu, 1972
Dragon is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:31 PM   #582
Dragon
No Way as Way
 
Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: New York, NY USA
Posts: 9,989
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpideyVille View Post
Well that's what I mean. What would have happened everyone loved SM3? Would we have seen some of the same issues ultimately leading to the decision to reboot it, or would they have given Raimi more creative freedom to make his movie his way.
I'm sure they would have. Look at the Carte Blanche that Nolan got for TDKR.
The studio started second guessing Raimi again, so rather than have another SM3 fiasco, he pulled out. As he's been saying, his love for the character is too deep to do two films he was unhappy with.

__________________
Kwai Cheng: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

Kung-Fu, 1972
Dragon is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:18 PM   #583
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
What my recollection is of the events was that Raimi wanted the film to feature the Lizard. The studio nixed the Lizard because they felt it was too bizarre. Then as plan B Raimi wanted the Vulture. In either case, he apparently wanted Black Cat.

But the studio wanted a connection between the Cat and Vulture (One of the scripts that Raimi was unhappy with) and wanted Felicia to be the Vulture's daughter. Thus, Black Cat would be Vultress.

Again, Raimi was the one who didn't like any of the scripts Sony was tossing at him, didn't think he could make the deadline, so he opted out.
So what Raimi is saying is if he had it his way, he would have used Black Cat even though Hathaway would probably have been The Vulturess if Sony had it their way? What Sam is trying to say is he would've used Black Cat if Sony didn't force their hand, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
I'm sure they would have. Look at the Carte Blanche that Nolan got for TDKR.
The studio started second guessing Raimi again, so rather than have another SM3 fiasco, he pulled out. As he's been saying, his love for the character is too deep to do two films he was unhappy with.
It really does seem Sony and FOX like to push their opinions and ideas into a film while Warner Brothers seem to be very open, especially with Nolan's trilogy.

Anno_Domini is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:17 PM   #584
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
The box office didn't mean a thing apparently as that didn't keep a fourth film from being made and Sony still had eyes on rebooting it, and as average as anyone wants to call it, it's a 63% on RT compared to a 89% for Spider-Man and a 93% for Spider-Man 2. That RT score right there shows me that yes, S-M 3 was a failure.
Not really lol. A fourth film was being made, however what stopped it wasn't the lack of box office success, nor mixed critical reaction. It was sony, and sony butting on on who Raimi could use again, and Sam, feeling he couldn't make a fourth movie that was both pleasing to the fans and himself, bowed out. Now, they could have continued, but then Maguire and Dunst bowed out after Raimi left, hence the reboot. Also, a critical failure is a panning, which this movie wasn't. Yeah, I know you hate it cause it butchered a crap character and yadayadayada, but it's not really as hated as you'd like (or want) to believe. It's more than likely not gonna make anyone's top ten anytime soon, yes, but it's not the absolute failure others make it out to be.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:43 PM   #585
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Yes really. If Spider-Man 3 had great critical success, you're crazy if you think Sony was still going to go ahead and reboot a very critically acclaimed franchise. One bomber and that's the reason Sony split hairs and decided for a reboot. They're not going to try and pull a Batman Forever or Superman III and spit out an even more embarrassing sequel. Sadly, I'm a realist...I know Sony blames Raimi because of S-M 3 being a stinker to the critics and they're absolutely wrong for thinking that.

Anno_Domini is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:50 PM   #586
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Uh-huh. Now, why was Spider-Man 4 in production if they had no plans to make it, exactly?

They had a set release date, actors confirmed for parts, and scripts (that were being re-written, naturally.)

Sony didn't cancel SM4 because SM3. Sony ended SM4 because Raimi left, Tobey left, and Dunst left.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:53 PM   #587
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 36,550
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Anno, Spider-Man 4 was a go. Raimi was even happy that Sony had given him full creative control: http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/t...al-creati.html

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:54 PM   #588
AF3619
WOOO!
 
AF3619's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: México
Posts: 6,098
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
We would have had a Spider-Man 4. But I would rather think of this: if Spider-Man 3 had Vulture instead of Venom, who would have been the villain in a fourth installment if S-M 3 was as big of a hit with critics as Raimi's first two Spidey films?

Lizard maybe?
i donīt think so ,we were going to get SM4 but aside the fact that Sam couldnīt make it for 2011 and the cast left, imho , Tobey was not in shape to be Spider-man , maybe he couldīve get in shape for SM4 but imagine maybe the possibility of SM4 beeing as good as SM2 , Spiderman 5 wouldīve released arround this year and the next but Tobey wouldīve been too old for the role , donīt you think?

Andrew may be in his 30īs but he seems young and if they are still playing it as a trilogy he can leave without looking too old...idk

__________________
avvy by Kane52630
"-On belif of the fair people of New York city and real rhinos everywhere i ask you to put your mechanized paws in the air

-[Over the top russian accent] NEVER!, I CRUSH YOU, I KILL YOU, I DESTROY YOU

-You want me to come there so you can kill me?
-YES
-Iīll be right there"
AF3619 is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:57 PM   #589
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Anno, Spider-Man 4 was a go. Raimi was even happy that Sony had given him full creative control: http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/t...al-creati.html

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:00 AM   #590
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by AF3619 View Post
i donīt think so ,we were going to get SM4 but aside the fact that Sam couldnīt make it for 2011 and the cast left, imho , Tobey was not in shape to be Spider-man , maybe he couldīve get in shape for SM4 but imagine maybe the possibility of SM4 beeing as good as SM2 , Spiderman 5 wouldīve released arround this year and the next but Tobey wouldīve been too old for the role , donīt you think?

Andrew may be in his 30īs but he seems young and if they are still playing it as a trilogy he can leave without looking too old...idk
I remember seeing a set photo of tobey filming something else around 2009, and he looked really slim and much younger than he did in SM3. I'll see if I can find it.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:03 AM   #591
AF3619
WOOO!
 
AF3619's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: México
Posts: 6,098
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post
I remember seeing a set photo of tobey filming something else around 2009, and he looked really slim and much younger than he did in SM3. I'll see if I can find it.
i think it was Brothers isnīt it?

imagine in a parallel universe were Spider-man 4 released with Sam directing but with the bad script that they proposed?
also wasnīt James Vanderbilt working on SM 4 before TASM?

__________________
avvy by Kane52630
"-On belif of the fair people of New York city and real rhinos everywhere i ask you to put your mechanized paws in the air

-[Over the top russian accent] NEVER!, I CRUSH YOU, I KILL YOU, I DESTROY YOU

-You want me to come there so you can kill me?
-YES
-Iīll be right there"

Last edited by AF3619; 03-16-2013 at 12:11 AM.
AF3619 is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:04 AM   #592
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Nah, he had a red collared shirt, and I think a tan overcoat. Couldn't have been brothers. Though he looked good in that too.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:07 AM   #593
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post
Uh-huh. Now, why was Spider-Man 4 in production if they had no plans to make it, exactly?

They had a set release date, actors confirmed for parts, and scripts (that were being re-written, naturally.)

Sony didn't cancel SM4 because SM3. Sony ended SM4 because Raimi left, Tobey left, and Dunst left.
Raimi knew Sony was already planning on making the reboot, he even mentioned it on an article posted earlier in this thread. There HAD to be a reason Sony was working on a reboot in the backburner just waiting for Raimi to leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Anno, Spider-Man 4 was a go. Raimi was even happy that Sony had given him full creative control: http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/t...al-creati.html
Going out of topic, but I have to ask this now.

So what does that mean now? Did Raimi plan on using "The Vulturess"?

Anno_Domini is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:09 AM   #594
A Necessary Evil
You're Afraid
 
A Necessary Evil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,194
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

The original plan was to make SM4+SM5 back to back, then reboot.

So yeah, they renewed contracts, brought in new actors, set a release date...all so they could reboot. Right.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden Smith
Green White And Blue Make Dreams Come True.
#wtF

#IbelieveinBatfleck2k16
A Necessary Evil is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:13 AM   #595
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 36,550
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Going out of topic, but I have to ask this now.

So what does that mean now? Did Raimi plan on using "The Vulturess"?
I thought this Vulturess stuff was debunked when he said he wanted Anne Hathaway for Black Cat.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:14 AM   #596
SpideyVille
Walking out the Desert
 
SpideyVille's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The little part of the Big Apple
Posts: 20,714
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

I thought the original original plan was to make 6 films in total. The shooting of SM4 and SM5 together was something that came later on to fight the fact that Tobey was aging and wouldn't be the same in three years for another sequel.

__________________
SpideyVille is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:19 AM   #597
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post
The original plan was to make SM4+SM5 back to back, then reboot.

So yeah, they renewed contracts, brought in new actors, set a release date...all so they could reboot. Right.
So was Raimi just being paranoid saying he knew Sony had plans to make a reboot anyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
I thought this Vulturess stuff was debunked when he said he wanted Anne Hathaway for Black Cat.
Dragon made a mention of how Raimi wanted to use Black Cat but Sony was forcing their hand again and that could be something that went wrong, BUT...if Raimi said he has full control in that article in '09, then Hathaway being chimed in as Vulturess in 2010 raises more questions, don't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpideyVille View Post
I thought the original original plan was to make 6 films in total. The shooting of SM4 and SM5 together was something that came later on to fight the fact that Tobey was aging and wouldn't be the same in three years for another sequel.
I know there was a lot of talk from both Raimi and Arad about six films.

Anno_Domini is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:33 AM   #598
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 36,550
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Dragon made a mention of how Raimi wanted to use Black Cat but Sony was forcing their hand again and that could be something that went wrong, BUT...if Raimi said he has full control in that article in '09, then Hathaway being chimed in as Vulturess in 2010 raises more questions, don't you think?
What questions though? The Vulturess stuff was obviously false rumors. It happens.

Remember JGL was being touted as Alberto Falcone for TDKR: http://www.slashfilm.com/joseph-gord...-knight-rises/

Unless you've seen someone credible associated with these movies say Vulturess was going to be done at one point, it's all unconfirmed rumor.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:38 AM   #599
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

The article that states who's going to be Vulture and Vulturess and the former ends up being right...know of any article that gets one thing right and the other wrong?

Anno_Domini is offline  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:45 AM   #600
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 36,550
Default Re: The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
The article that states who's going to be Vulture and Vulturess and the former ends up being right...know of any article that gets one thing right and the other wrong?
I sure do: http://collider.com/the-dark-knight-...gordon-levitt/

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2014 All Rights Reserved.