Rumor: Bale may be back as Batman in JL

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Yeah I feel the same. That's my main wish. Bring Bruce back as Batman sure, but not in Gotham. And maybe Bruce shouldn't come back to Gotham unless a tragedy takes place, even then I would have him return in disguise.

I think a better thing to do would be to have Bruce already thinking of joining Superman. Then Bruce hears from Blake that Lucius has died. So he goes back to Gotham to honor him and guess what Fox left behind? Perhaps Fox created this for a new Batman but Blake encourages him to use the toys. Maybe a modified Batwing, a new suit. Could be a bunch of ****. Blake then serves as Batmans oracle and when Bats is finished with the Justice League mission/s, he moves back to Gotham and trains Blake.

When I think about it now, this could be a good thing to write into the story.

Blake encourages Bruce because he doesn't have the training yet and there's no time to learn everything. He was only set-up as a successor in Gotham, he would be out of his league out in the world flying around with super-powered beings.

I like the idea of Lucius Fox leaving all this advanced tech, helping from beyond the grave.
I'm just not keen on the idea of having a Blake who isn't trained when the problems arise.

It seems to go against the end of TDKR that Blake becomes Batman, but...he actually doesn't yet because he isn't ready, and Bruce has to be Batman a little longer. It turns the triumphant ending of TDKR into a mistake by Bruce.

I know it makes sense that Blake has training to do, but for narrative purposes, I'd rather just have the conflict in JL take place a few years later after Blake is trained, so there isn't that...regression in the narrative.

Perhaps there's a different reason why Bruce decides to step in the cowl (maybe he doesn't want Blake to leave Gotham unprotected, so Bruce himself, who has the idea to set up the league, sets out to recruit the members using the symbol/disguise of Batman)

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

I like the idea of Lucius Fox leaving all this advanced tech, helping from beyond the grave.
I'm just not keen on the idea of having a Blake who isn't trained when the problems arise.

It seems to go against the end of TDKR that Blake becomes Batman, but...he actually doesn't yet because he isn't ready, and Bruce has to be Batman a little longer. It turns the triumphant ending of TDKR into a mistake by Bruce.

I know it makes sense that Blake has training to do, but for narrative purposes, I'd rather just have the conflict in JL take place a few years later after Blake is trained, so there isn't that...regression in the narrative.

Perhaps there's a different reason why Bruce decides to step in the cowl (maybe he doesn't want Blake to leave Gotham unprotected, so Bruce himself, who has the idea to set up the league, sets out to recruit the members using the symbol/disguise of Batman)

OK fair enough. You do have a point. I'll go with what you said because ur right, it's more logical.

Blake serves as Nightwing with his own training (or even a new version of Batman) but Bruce tells him he needs him in Gotham while he is out there with Superman.

That solves it. And they'll probably write it that way too. It's the most simple.

I'm loving my suggestion though (not to pat myself on the back ) of Lucius dying, Bruce hearing the news from Blake, heads to Gotham to find new toys that Fox worked on before he kicked the bucket. Write it that Fox got sick, and did his best to get Wayne Enterprises back on its feet and modified "The Bat" and created a couple of different suits/cowls.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

That would be the perfect send off for Fox. Infinitely useful, even after death.

And yes, I do think Blake should have become 'Batman'. Again, it would ruin the end of TDKR if Blake didn't become Batman, ruining the resurrection/rise of this christ-like symbol.

[shauner111]

Not if the resurrection/rise of the Christ-like symbol is Bruce's Batman .

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Not if the resurrection/rise of the Christ-like symbol is Bruce's Batman .

nevermind

[Sub-Zero]

Ugh. Lets leave jesus out of this. With Every single comicbook character some one always compares him to jesus in the most ridiculous way. Bruce Wayne never died. Superman never died(the comics proved that as long as there's a yellow sun he can't die). Both characters were created by Jews, so I highly doubt it was their intentions to make their characters allegories for jesus

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by Sub-Zero

Ugh. Lets leave jesus out of this. With Every single comicbook character some one always compares him to jesus in the most ridiculous way. Bruce Wayne never died. Superman never died(the comics proved that as long as there's a yellow sun he can't die). Both characters were created by Jews, so I highly doubt it was their intentions to make their characters allegories for jesus

I know Bruce Wayne never died. But Batman is believed to be dead at the end of TDKR. Bruce Wayne isn't this Christ-like symbol, Batman is.

Why would Bruce fake Batman's death just to have him appear again (as Blake)?
Because he wants people to believe he died, and then resurrect/rise, solidifying him as this everlasting symbol. Not unlike Jesus.

Many Gothamites (like audience members) will not be able to comprehend that a regular man could survive a nuclear explosion, and when he returns, they'll believe that he is 'more than a man', the stuff of legends.

Also, I'm not talking about what Batman's creators intended; they didn't write TDKR.

[Rodrigo90]

But my beef with Nolan primarily is

He attempted to portray a real man being Batman.
In his realistic sense, Nolan posed a realistic event in the attempt to show us that Batman is just a man and cannot continue on forever. Bruce getting old and rusty, was part of that realism. The cartilage gone from his knees was also part of it.

All that was done to show us, in the real world, Bruce Wayne cannot last forever. Physically. James Bond can break bones and age is not of any consequence. But Nolan's Batman ENDED as realistically as a normal human being could.

And if Bale comes back and they continue with the previous Bat franchise, then everything they did was for nothing.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

But my beef with Nolan primarily is

He attempted to portray a real man being Batman.
In his realistic sense, Nolan posed a realistic event in the attempt to show us that Batman is just a man and cannot continue on forever. Bruce getting old and rusty, was part of that realism. The cartilage gone from his knees was also part of it.

All that was done to show us, in the real world, Bruce Wayne cannot last forever. Physically. James Bond can break bones and age is not of any consequence. But Nolan's Batman ENDED as realistically as a normal human being could.

And if Bale comes back and they continue with the previous Bat franchise, then everything they did was for nothing.

Unless he doesn't abuse his bones. What if he doesn't fight?

I know some people wouldn't like that though.

[Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

But my beef with Nolan primarily is

He attempted to portray a real man being Batman.
In his realistic sense, Nolan posed a realistic event in the attempt to show us that Batman is just a man and cannot continue on forever. Bruce getting old and rusty, was part of that realism. The cartilage gone from his knees was also part of it.

All that was done to show us, in the real world, Bruce Wayne cannot last forever. Physically. James Bond can break bones and age is not of any consequence. But Nolan's Batman ENDED as realistically as a normal human being could.

And if Bale comes back and they continue with the previous Bat franchise, then everything they did was for nothing.

Uhhh.....nope!

[Rodrigo90]

Uhhh yeah!

I remember Nolan clearly stating that things can't go on forever. Bruce's failing health, bones and cartlidge was part of Nolan's realistic portrayal of things. He wrote it that way because that's how he wanted to end Bruce Wayne's crimefighting career as Batman. That's how it would end for anyone in that situation.

Because in the real world, which Nolan wanted to portray, that's what happens to real people. Unlike the comics, which he stated, these things can't last forever. Unlike the comics, Batman was clearly not invincible in TDK trilogy. Nolan showed that NOBODY was a superhuman in his world. They didn't last. Batman lasted. Bruce Wayne didn't, because he wouldn't and couldn't. Because realistically, he couldn't, and storywise, he wouldn't.

Extraordinary things happened to normal people. But nobody was extraordinary. That's what Nolan stated in his writing of Batman and his world.

Bringing back Bale and merging THAT world with JL, is a serious bullet in the foot lol

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Uhhh yeah!

I remember Nolan clearly stating that things can't go on forever. Bruce's failing health, bones and cartlidge was part of Nolan's realistic portrayal of things. He wrote it that way because that's how he wanted to end Bruce Wayne's crimefighting career as Batman. That's how it would end for anyone in that situation...

Yeah, Bruce Wayne's knee had no cartledge, but yet he was somehow able to walk without a limp (even without a special brace he had made for it) and climb (rise) out of a deep pit (a feat that only one person could achieve.

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Because in the real world, which Nolan wanted to portray, that's what happens to real people. Unlike the comics, which he stated, these things can't last forever. Unlike the comics, Batman was clearly not invincible in TDK trilogy. Nolan showed that NOBODY was a superhuman in his world. They didn't last. Batman lasted. Bruce Wayne didn't, because he wouldn't and couldn't. Because realistically, he couldn't, and storywise, he wouldn't.

Extraordinary things happened to normal people. But nobody was extraordinary. That's what Nolan stated in his writing of Batman and his world.

I remember back in the Golden and Silver Age of comics, Batman had been shot multiple times and was treated by his butler, Alfred. He had his back broken to the point where he was crippled, but somehow was able to make a recovery. Now, he is able to recover from injuries that would normally make a person retire from service. So much for being normal.

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Bringing back Bale and merging THAT world with JL, is a serious bullet in the foot lol

I think that bringing back Christian Bale with the potential of another billion dollar franchise outweighs some silly notion that it would ruin a series of films that has already made it's money.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by dnno1

Yeah, Bruce Wayne's knee had no cartledge, but yet he was somehow able to walk without a limp (even without a special brace he had made for it) and climb (rise) out of a deep pit (a feat that only one person could achieve

I think the idea isn't that he isn't capable, but rather that extreme physical trauma is doing permanent damage to his body.

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by dnno1

Yeah, Bruce Wayne's knee had no cartledge, but yet he was somehow able to walk without a limp (even without a special brace he had made for it) and climb (rise) out of a deep pit (a feat that only one person could achieve.

But what they were getting at, is that if Bruce continued, he would only deteriorate. He wasn't going to last forever. Despite what he managed to do. Bruce and Talia was about maintaing the right mental attitude as opposed to physicality.

How long could Bruce suffer more broken backs and weakening kness before good fortune ran out? Despite what he achieved, he knew he was never going to last, physically. That was why he retired. He could have easily returned upon the bomb going off. Why stay "dead"?
Because he wouldn't and couldn't last forever as Batman.

I remember back in the Golden and Silver Age of comics, Batman had been shot multiple times and was treated by his butler, Alfred. He had his back broken to the point where he was crippled, but somehow was able to make a recovery. Now, he is able to recover from injuries that would normally make a person retire from service. So much for being normal.

That's the comics. Batman HAS to be almost superhuman. Real world rules are bended. Nolan chose, at that point, to say
"Unlike the comics, these things can't go on forever"

I think that bringing back Christian Bale with the potential of another billion dollar franchise outweighs some silly notion that it would ruin a series of films that has already made it's money.

Probably. But it just affects Nolan's ethics. One minute he says Bruce can't last forever in his world, now he can. He wanted his world realistic as possible, now he doesn't care. Tsk tsk.

I can understand WB wanting all the success. But it makes Nolan seem like bit of a sellout, to himself mainly. He would be going against himself and everything he had done. But never mind.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

But what they were getting at, is that if Bruce continued, he would only deteriorate. He wasn't going to last forever. Despite what he managed to do. Bruce and Talia was about maintaing the right mental attitude as opposed to physicality...

I don't believe that is true, since he was able to recover (without medical treatment, mind you) in less than a year from injuries that would normally put world class athletes out of commission for a year and a half (with medical aid).

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

..How long could Bruce suffer more broken backs and weakening kness before good fortune ran out? Despite what he achieved, he knew he was never going to last, physically. That was why he retired. He could have easily returned upon the bomb going off. Why stay "dead"?
Because he wouldn't and couldn't last forever as Batman...

How long he could suffer depends on what the next writer wants to do with the character. Once again by the end of the story, Bruce Wayne wasn't walking with a cane and was rock climbing out of a deep pit even though he had suffered a severe back injury (that wasn't treated properly) and had no cartilage in his knee.

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

..That's the comics. Batman HAS to be almost superhuman. Real world rules are bended. Nolan chose, at that point, to say
"Unlike the comics, these things can't go on forever"...

See my previous post. That version of Batman will last until the next reboot.

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

..Probably. But it just affects Nolan's ethics. One minute he says Bruce can't last forever in his world, now he can. He wanted his world realistic as possible, now he doesn't care. Tsk tsk...

As a consolation, he could argue that he is only producing and that it would be whomever is directing's version of the Caped Crusader. Look money can make people say anything regardless of their ethics.

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

..I can understand WB wanting all the success. But it makes Nolan seem like bit of a sellout, to himself mainly. He would be going against himself and everything he had done. But never mind...

Well, I wouldn't' say that the suits at the WB want all the success, but they do want their pictures to be successful. That is why part of their mission is to attract and develop the worlds best talent and right now in this genre, Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, David Goyer, and Christian bale are some of the best talent in the business. It would behoove them to at least make an attempt (in spite of what they may have said in the media) to get them to work together on another tent-pole.

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by dnno1

I don't believe that is true, since he was able to recover (without medical treatment, mind you) in less than a year from injuries that would normally put world class athletes out of commission for a year and a half (with medical aid).

How long he could suffer depends on what the next writer wants to do with the character. Once again by the end of the story, Bruce Wayne wasn't walking with a cane and was rock climbing out of a deep pit even though he had suffered a severe back injury (that wasn't treated properly) and had no cartilage in his knee.

He preserved with his injuries forever present. But as time goes on, he would have deteriorated. He was deteriorating with his knee, his back would certainly follow.
Nolan wrote all that for a reason. Batman pushed through his physical alignments long enough for his final battle. His mind did play a part in him getting out of the pit. We could seehe was in pain climbing out and we could see how bad he was upon being stabbed. Physically, while not there, he was nearing the end.

As a consolation, he could argue that he is only producing and that it would be whomever is directing's version of the Caped Crusader. Look money can make people say anything regardless of their ethics.

And there was a time when people genuinely believed Nolan wasn't like that

[IamtheBatman]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

He preserved with his injuries forever present. But as time goes on, he would have deteriorated. He was deteriorating with his knee, his back would certainly follow.
Nolan wrote all that for a reason. Batman pushed through his physical alignments long enough for his final battle. His mind did play a part in him getting out of the pit. We could seehe was in pain climbing out and we could see how bad he was upon being stabbed. Physically, while not there, he was nearing the end.


And there was a time when people genuinely believed Nolan wasn't like that

Have you ever read Kingdom Come look how old he is in that and he's still suiting for his age.

[Rodrigo90]

But that is the comics.

If Nolan wasn't so caught up in his realism, and trying to realistically portray Batman and realistically end his career with real world ethics that people who try to do all that Batman does can't stay in perfect shape and last forever, I would have been lenient.

[IamtheBatman]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

But that is the comics.

If Nolan wasn't so caught up in his realism, and trying to realistically portray Batman and realistically end his career with real world ethics that people who try to do all that Batman does can't stay in perfect shape and last forever, I would have been lenient.

I always hated the realism factor!

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by IamtheBatman

I always hated the realism factor!

I know, me too.

It spoiled things and now it more or less contradicts his future work with Batman and JL. It's ironic in a way.

[AntMan]

Originally Posted by IamtheBatman

I always hated the realism factor!

Yeah well, it was Nolan's creative choice and if he doesn't stick with it, then all his character changes are called into question.

[Rodrigo90]

[IamtheBatman]

I know ElMayimbe is credible but WB has to confirm it and I don't think they will till maybe Comic-Con

[AntMan]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Seriously , I mean you're going to tell me Nolan couldn't find a scientific way to explain Ra's al Ghul's regeneration process, (Such as stem cells) and yet Superman is okay in this world? Please.

[IamtheBatman]

Originally Posted by AntMan

Seriously , I mean your going to tell me Nolan couldn't find a scientific way to explain Ra's al Ghul's regeneration process, (Such as stem cells) and yet Superman is okay in this world? Please.

How hard would it have been to fill a lazarus pit with green water!