The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 10

[Marvolo]

Crappy poster but the final TDKR poster was far worse. Still can't believe that POS ended up the cover of the blu-ray.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

Here's my problem with it:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

First of all, we still don't *know* that Killian is the big bad. It's still just a rumor.

Anyway, Feige and Black's comments about Mandarin don't do anything but justify his change in image. He went from the racist Fu Manchu to a more believable modern day villain. It's wrong to assume that making him the lead villain means recycling Middle Eastern terrorist cliches. First of all, we don't know where he's supposed to be from. He could be from Mongolia for all we know. Second, having your non-Western villain outsmarted by whitey and his tech gadgets has already been done in IM1. Do they really need to repeat that scenario? I hope they don't. It's lazy.

My biggest problem with the whole rumored bait and switch is that it absolutely destroys Iron Man's greatest nemesis. I don't care if he's a badass for MOST of the movie. This is his introduction, much like CA:TFA was Red Skull's and Thor was Loki's. If he's outsmarted, manipulated, or otherwise controlled by a villain like Killian, it kills any future threat level. He's no longer nemesis status and goes straight down to B-level hood. THAT'S my main worry. People would scream bloody murder if Joker or Lex or Loki got used in such a way their first time out. Mandarin is Iron Man's most well-known villain. Treat him that way.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

And, like I said, those of you who are mad about Mandarin getting nerfed and "INO'ed" in this movie are pretty well justified. But again, Mandarin was never going to work "as is." Not a chance in hell, and Marvel knew it. Not only would you piss off all the Asian-Americans in the audience ---- and pretty much anybody else who'd see a Fu Manchu stereotype as a very bad idea for 21st century Hollywood --- but trying to bring him into a movie that's supposed to be a genuine trailblazer in Hollywood-Chinese film relations? China obviously never would've allowed that.

I'm all for comic book canon and authenticity and all that jazz (probably far moreso than a lot of people even on these boards), but I really can't bring myself to shed a tear over a character like Mandarin getting the INO treatment. In the comic books, he's a character who should've been buried in the dustbin of Bad Ol' Day history many decades ago and forgotten about, and the attempts to modernize his image over the years have only served to pander to new Asian stereotypes instead.

And as for his status as being Tony's "archenemy": that's overblown, too. Fact is, Iron Man has always had one of the crappiest rogues' gallery of any Marvel character, and it's always been an in-joke even with Stan Lee and us die-hard Marvelphiles. Mandarin might have more appearances than any of the other Iron Man enemies, but that's not nearly the same thing as saying he was an iconic Marvel villain. Nobody ever picked Mandarin for "all-star" villain teams like Masters of Evil; he's practically non-existent in Marvel Comics outside the pages of Iron Man titles. Trying to put Mandy in the same boat as truly iconic supervillains as Lex Luthor or Loki or The Joker ain't even close.

[DyeLorean]

So, apparently I'm watching this on April 25th. Almost a month away!

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

And, like I said, those of you who are mad about Mandarin getting nerfed and "INO'ed" in this movie are pretty well justified. But again, Mandarin was never going to work "as is." Not a chance in hell, and Marvel knew it. Not only would you piss off all the Asian-Americans in the audience ---- and pretty much anybody else who'd see a Fu Manchu stereotype as a very bad idea for 21st century Hollywood --- but trying to bring him into a movie that's supposed to be a genuine trailblazer in Hollywood-Chinese film relations? China obviously never would've allowed that.

I'm all for comic book canon and authenticity and all that jazz (probably far moreso than a lot of people even on these boards), but I really can't bring myself to shed a tear over a character like Mandarin getting the INO treatment. In the comic books, he's a character who should've been buried in the dustbin of Bad Ol' Day history many decades ago and forgotten about, and the attempts to modernize his image over the years have only served to pander to new Asian stereotypes instead.

And as for his status as being Tony's "archenemy": that's overblown, too. Fact is, Iron Man has always had one of the crappiest rogues' gallery of any Marvel character, and it's always been an in-joke even with Stan Lee and us die-hard Marvelphiles. Mandarin might have more appearances than any of the other Iron Man enemies, but that's not nearly the same thing as saying he was an iconic Marvel villain. Nobody ever picked Mandarin for "all-star" villain teams like Masters of Evil; he's practically non-existent in Marvel Comics outside the pages of Iron Man titles. Trying to put Mandy in the same boat as truly iconic supervillains as Lex Luthor or Loki or The Joker ain't even close.

If Marvel were in step with what you're saying, why would they include him at all? You're painting a picture of a cartoonish stereotype that can't work in modern times. First of all, I totally agree that early Mandarin was horribly racist. However, if they thought he couldn't be updated, they wouldn't use him. They wouldn't tease his arrival for three movies. If they truly thought that he wasn't the iconic Iron Man enemy, then why go to all that trouble over three films just to set up a third act plot twist? It doesn't make sense.

I think we can all agree that evil China-man with the fu manchu beard wasn't going to cut it. Strip all that away, though ,and you're left with a villain of Asian decent (could be Indian, Mongolian, Afghan, Chinese...whatever) who has powerful rings that can challenge the likes of Iron Man. That's it. If you can't craft a new image for that villain in modern times, then you have no business making superhero movies.

[Loki666]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

It's funny though, because the Mandarin says "You will never see me coming" and yet by Broadcasting it on the news it seems to be what actually tips off Tony to the attack and essentially allowing Tony to "See the Mandarin coming". He's like wait that attack is here, everyone down. lol

I agree though with Crimson King (while it's possible Killian is the main bad guy in Iron Man 3), I still don't see this as proof that he is the main villian instead of Mandarin. Still hoping these rumors are not true, although I wouldn't mind if Killian thought he was playing Mandarin like a pawn in his chess game but Mandarin is aware all along what Killian is doing and planning, and Mandarin just goes along with it because it also suits his own goals, but when the time is right towards the end of the movie, Mandarin changes the parameters of there arrangement and shows that he has his own agenda and that he is no ones puppet. That is what I would like to see.

Surfer

I like this scenario. Here's a scenario I came up with, just some long speculation for now.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Maybe Mandarin fakes his own death to evade AIM when he catches on to them using him, or seems to be gone after a series of explosions but was actually able to disappear quickly and we need to pay close attention/ never see a body. It would look like Mandarin dies but Mandarin doesn't actually die. Instead maybe he does something like transferred his consciousness temporarily into one of the extremis soldiers and has been playing Killian all along, letting him think he had control, because he needs to use Killian's mind...

I think there are some clues out there and here in what I'll post from an article that talks about Extremis. Posted on the site that shall not be named on March 6th (so no link). Could paint a clearer picture as to how Mandarin could go about controlling Killian's mind after he betrays him. Or what the rings actually do if that last spoiler is not entirely true. In this scenario it could appear they do nothing.

Killian thinks he can use his thoughts to program and direct the soldiers like computers. That way they will only obey and there can be no heroes, only technologically enhanced, obedient, super soldiers. One of Mandarin's rings sort of starts to interact with Extremis and boosts Mandarin's ability to remote control telepathically,via science, and takes Mandarin further than Killian and Tony... Unfortunately this happens after Killian took Extremis and he had no idea Mandarin's mind would get a boost, allowing it to steal control from Killian and hijack his mind. The mento-intensifier ring had power locked in it that Killian didn't know about, however it took Extremis for the ring to be able to start affecting peoples' minds... Mandarin would control the Extremis soldiers remotely from very far away, and keeps guns on him for when people get close.

So in essence, Mandarin would eventually be able to completely control and program the human mind with his own thoughts, by neutralizing the nervous system and commanding it remotely, taking full control of the cyborgs after the mento-intensifier ring begins to function... He would also want to program with the news and wants the world to see his sudden attacks to create a dramatic effect. When filming the Mandarin you can't look him directly in the eye, he acts like a movie star and his whole persona has been crafted as an act, partially to play with people psychologically, according the lessons and impact he wants to make. But everything in the final battle becomes a battle of minds. And Mandarin ends up controlling the entire Extremis soldier army, remotely, while Tony has his own army... Killian may live but he may no longer be Killian and Mandarin actually achieves what Tony couldn't with Happy. He uploads his actual consciousness into Killian at the very end...

Killian's mind is strong enough to fight it for a long time, but he screws himself over in the end by taking Extremis. Not knowing that Mandarin figured out how to use the mento-intensifier ring to make his mind temporarily stronger than Killian's and steal control of the programmed soldiers, programming Killian like a computer, traveling through his nervous system and spinal cord into the brain. Killian didn't know Mandarin wanted complete control of the Extremis army with his thoughts + one of the rings that begins to function near the end. A lot of it would be subtext.

This is from an interview with Shane Black (originally from SFX):

“In the Extremis comic book, there’s a type of thing that takes over and basically upgrades DNA. Sometimes you die. But if you live through the experience then you come out this changed thing. But the way they do it is the guy that does it is not some man chosen to be the super soldier -he’s just a militia guy. There’s an element of realism to it as well. So what we’ve tried to do is take this very science-fictiony concept of super people, and ground it in the type of people who volunteer for this being not necessarily super villains, but just people who upgrade. I love the idea of a super villain that doesn’t wear a cape, that doesn’t wear a super suit. That goes around dressed as you are right now. As for the science of it, once again we’ve gone back to the comic books, and I think pretty much lifted the Maya Hensen idea, that she met [Tony] long ago and had the germ of an idea, which now has come to fruition full circle, but she’s afraid because it’s gotten out there. And we go from there. I think you’ll be interested in the effect that we generate to demonstrate what Extremis does to a human being. It’s a pretty interesting special effect. But we’ve deliberately stayed away from defining, ‘Oh it’s nanites.’ What we do keep from the comic is the idea that there’s a slot in the brain that seems to have been dormant, but exists in human beings, almost as though it’s waiting for human beings to find a way to fill it. It’s been there forever.”

[R_Hythlodeus]

ugly. just.... ugly.
is this the final poster?

[T"Challa]

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

ugly. just.... ugly.
is this the final poster?

Its just the IMAX poster..i think the one with just RDJ and Paltrow is the final poster for all locations

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Loki666

I like this scenario. Here's a scenario I came up with, just some long speculation for now.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Maybe Mandarin fakes his own death to evade AIM when he catches on to them using him, or seems to be gone after a series of explosions but was actually able to disappear quickly and we need to pay close attention/ never see a body. It would look like Mandarin dies but Mandarin doesn't actually die. Instead maybe he does something like transferred his consciousness temporarily into one of the extremis soldiers and has been playing Killian all along, letting him think he had control, because he needs to use Killian's mind...

I think there are some clues out there and here in what I'll post from an article that talks about Extremis. Posted on the site that shall not be named on March 6th (so no link). Could paint a clearer picture as to how Mandarin could go about controlling Killian's mind after he betrays him. Or what the rings actually do if that last spoiler is not entirely true. In this scenario it could appear they do nothing.

Killian thinks he can use his thoughts to program and direct the soldiers like computers. That way they will only obey and there can be no heroes, only technologically enhanced, obedient, super soldiers. One of Mandarin's rings sort of starts to interact with Extremis and boosts Mandarin's ability to remote control telepathically,via science, and takes Mandarin further than Killian and Tony... Unfortunately this happens after Killian took Extremis and he had no idea Mandarin's mind would get a boost, allowing it to steal control from Killian and hijack his mind. The mento-intensifier ring had power locked in it that Killian didn't know about, however it took Extremis for the ring to be able to start affecting peoples' minds... Mandarin would control the Extremis soldiers remotely from very far away, and keeps guns on him for when people get close.

So in essence, Mandarin would eventually be able to completely control and program the human mind with his own thoughts, by neutralizing the nervous system and commanding it remotely, taking full control of the cyborgs after the mento-intensifier ring begins to function... He would also want to program with the news and wants the world to see his sudden attacks to create a dramatic effect. When filming the Mandarin you can't look him directly in the eye, he acts like a movie star and his whole persona has been crafted as an act, partially to play with people psychologically, according the lessons and impact he wants to make. But everything in the final battle becomes a battle of minds. And Mandarin ends up controlling the entire Extremis soldier army, remotely, while Tony has his own army... Killian may live but he may no longer be Killian and Mandarin actually achieves what Tony couldn't with Happy. He uploads his actual consciousness into Killian at the very end...

Killian's mind is strong enough to fight it for a long time, but he screws himself over in the end by taking Extremis. Not knowing that Mandarin figured out how to use the mento-intensifier ring to make his mind temporarily stronger than Killian's and steal control of the programmed soldiers, programming Killian like a computer, traveling through his nervous system and spinal cord into the brain. Killian didn't know Mandarin wanted complete control of the Extremis army with his thoughts + one of the rings that begins to function near the end. A lot of it would be subtext.

This is from an interview with Shane Black (originally from SFX):

“In the Extremis comic book, there’s a type of thing that takes over and basically upgrades DNA. Sometimes you die. But if you live through the experience then you come out this changed thing. But the way they do it is the guy that does it is not some man chosen to be the super soldier -he’s just a militia guy. There’s an element of realism to it as well. So what we’ve tried to do is take this very science-fictiony concept of super people, and ground it in the type of people who volunteer for this being not necessarily super villains, but just people who upgrade. I love the idea of a super villain that doesn’t wear a cape, that doesn’t wear a super suit. That goes around dressed as you are right now. As for the science of it, once again we’ve gone back to the comic books, and I think pretty much lifted the Maya Hensen idea, that she met [Tony] long ago and had the germ of an idea, which now has come to fruition full circle, but she’s afraid because it’s gotten out there. And we go from there. I think you’ll be interested in the effect that we generate to demonstrate what Extremis does to a human being. It’s a pretty interesting special effect. But we’ve deliberately stayed away from defining, ‘Oh it’s nanites.’ What we do keep from the comic is the idea that there’s a slot in the brain that seems to have been dormant, but exists in human beings, almost as though it’s waiting for human beings to find a way to fill it. It’s been there forever.”

could Loki666 be LokiD ??? i'm thinking the odds are in our favor...

[Crimson King]

^Hah! I was going to say the same thing. I think there's a minimum word count per post requirement for people with "Loki" in their names.

[protocida]

Of course he is. The "666" denounces it.

[The Caped Knight]

I expected a better final poster featuring the cast

[Ultimatehero]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

Crappy poster but the final TDKR poster was far worse. Still can't believe that POS ended up the cover of the blu-ray.

Luckily I've got this brute:



As my cover.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

If Marvel were in step with what you're saying, why would they include him at all? You're painting a picture of a cartoonish stereotype that can't work in modern times. First of all, I totally agree that early Mandarin was horribly racist. However, if they thought he couldn't be updated, they wouldn't use him. They wouldn't tease his arrival for three movies. If they truly thought that he wasn't the iconic Iron Man enemy, then why go to all that trouble over three films just to set up a third act plot twist? It doesn't make sense.

Marvel wasn't trying to "tease" Mandarin for three movies, though. We make that assumption, but the truth of the matter is that IM1 only hinted at his existence through Ten Rings (they didn't even explicitly say there was one single leader at that point); IM2 barely acknowledged Ten Rings at all, other than a blink-and-you-miss-it easter egg moment; and Shane Black started off IM3 as a spy thriller that was going to feature Ghost as the main villain. So there were never any plans to turn this into an "all roads lead to Mandarin" climax. Mandarin was only a late addition to the game for IM3.

I think we can all agree that evil China-man with the fu manchu beard wasn't going to cut it. Strip all that away, though ,and you're left with a villain of Asian decent (could be Indian, Mongolian, Afghan, Chinese...whatever) who has powerful rings that can challenge the likes of Iron Man. That's it. If you can't craft a new image for that villain in modern times, then you have no business making superhero movies.

If he's Extremis-ized, he becomes "super"villain enough. Any of the Extremis soldiers, including Killian and possibly Mandarin, are going to be doing shore-nuff car-slinging, fire-breathing superhuman feats.

[SpideyFan866]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Marvel wasn't trying to "tease" Mandarin for three movies, though. We make that assumption, but the truth of the matter is that IM1 only hinted at his existence through Ten Rings (they didn't even explicitly say there was one single leader at that point); IM2 barely acknowledged Ten Rings at all, other than a blink-and-you-miss-it easter egg moment; and Shane Black started off IM3 as a spy thriller that was going to feature Ghost as the main villain. So there were never any plans to turn this into an "all roads lead to Mandarin" climax. Mandarin was only a late addition to the game for IM3.





If he's Extremis-ized, he becomes "super"villain enough. Any of the Extremis soldiers, including Killian and possibly Mandarin, are going to be doing shore-nuff car-slinging, fire-breathing superhuman feats.

And where did you get this information? I'm pretty sure Mandarin was in there plans from the beginning.

[SpideyFan866]

Found this over on screenrant.

If the rumors that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Stoszak is Janet Van Dyne is true, it could mean that Extremis is the cause of her powers in the MCU.

or that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

She is this Brandt character. Though, I personally feel its a cover of sorts. Think John Blake

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by SpideyFan866

Found this over on screenrant.

If the rumors that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Stoszak is Janet Van Dyne is true, it could mean that Extremis is the cause of her powers in the MCU.

or that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

She is this Brandt character. Though, I personally feel its a cover of sorts. Think John Blake

this was already posted pages back. the 2nd is much more likely than the first. if the first was true it would be the dumbest thing marvel has ever done and therefore can't possibly be true. would destroy the Ant-Man movie

[R_Hythlodeus]

Originally Posted by The Caped Knight

I expected a better final poster featuring the cast

I sure hope so

[SpideyFan866]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

this was already posted pages back. the 2nd is much more likely than the first. if the first was true it would be the dumbest thing marvel has ever done and therefore can't possibly be true. would destroy the Ant-Man movie

How? I really don't see how it would "destroy" it.

Plus, we also have to consider that along with Janet Van Dyne rumor, we also heard that Extremis gets deactivated at the end of the film.

So, any abilities Janet got from Extremis, would be gone anyways.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by SpideyFan866

How? I really don't see how it would "destroy" it.

Plus, we also have to consider that along with Janet Van Dyne rumor, we also heard that Extremis gets deactivated at the end of the film.

So, any abilities Janet got from Extremis, would be gone anyways.

then what's the point? lol

that sounds like a really bad waste of screen time

[SpideyFan866]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

then what's the point? lol

that sounds like a really bad waste of screen time

Who knows.

The Stoszak Janet rumor is vague anyways. It just says her character. But not her arc.

[darkslayer101]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

darkslayer was agreeing with henry cherokee

this^
srry if any wrong ideas were given

[darkslayer101]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yeah, I think we are. The gist of that exchange was a little confusing --- I thought darkslayer101 was saying that Mandarin wasn't live-broadcasting the attack on Malibu.

nope just agree with him...
i was only saying that Mandarin is getting more badass by live broadcasting an attack and it is feeling hard to believe that spoiler stating that he is not the main villain

[darkslayer101]

also the new poster is ugly.
hopefully they don't pull this with next phase 2 movies.

[mkilban2]

Meh, I don't have a problem with the poster, It looks bad but I doubt we see that anywhere promotional besides IMAX stuff, they can't use that over the pretty ones we've gotten already

[mkilban2]

Oh also gotta give mad props to CherokeeSam, the two items we argued about (Mandy vs. Killian relationship & Stozak's character) looks like you were correct on both accounts haha. (WHO'S YOUR SECRET INSIDE SOURCE!!! ) I'm happy with however each scenario happens, since we still haven't gotten a for sure confirmation on both. I just cannot wait for this movie to kick off this phase