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Old 03-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #201
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

I'm REALLY hoping they're gonna support the MP for this game.... First of all, bringing back Horde mode.

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Old 03-20-2013, 12:12 PM   #202
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Nope. It's a deliberate change and I actually like it to be honest. It forces you to choose one weapon instead of fall back on something and the inevitable shotgun. You can still pick up other weapons instead of your pistol, you just only have one main starting weapon.
I havent played it yet, but no, i wont be able to tolerate that. I want my Gnasher AND my Lancer. I use both MULTIPLE times per match depending on the situation and i cant fathom not being able to fall back and rely on one of the two. Thats just an absolute deal breaker for me. I wont pick the game up until thats either fixed or they add a "classic" game mode. Guess ill just end up waiting for the real Gears dev to take this series back.

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Old 03-20-2013, 12:13 PM   #203
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Played a few hours if mp last night. My impression? Simply underwhelmed...
Did you enjoy the MP from 3? Whats underwhelming about it?

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Old 03-20-2013, 01:48 PM   #204
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

Its not as good as 3 imho...feels very bare bones... Kind of lazy...if that makes sense.

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Old 03-20-2013, 02:11 PM   #205
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

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Nope. It's a deliberate change and I actually like it to be honest. It forces you to choose one weapon instead of fall back on something and the inevitable shotgun. You can still pick up other weapons instead of your pistol, you just only have one main starting weapon.

The main problem I'm having is I REALLY think DBNO needs to be back in Team Deathmatch. I get why it's not in free for all but otherwise it needs to come back.

Also, I don't know why they stripped down the customisation so much. Where are all the playable locust characters? Where are all the main Gears characters? Why are there onlye like 10 characters to choose from?
A few of the changes they've made have been good but they've taken so much out of the game in one go that it might be too much change at once for many. And also they've replaced a lot of stuff with new features that aren't as extensive as what was available before.

Introducing Survival & Overrun are great ideas but not if you are taking out Horde which is a defining and much imitated part of the series. Overrun will probably be a superior mode to Beast so replacing Beast with it is ok.

Dropping Execution was a crazy idea (glad it's back). I can understand droppping Warzone due to numbers played and the emergence of Team Deathmatch. And as long as there is 1 elimination mode it at least gives that area some coverage. Also I can understand changing KOTH (my favourite mode in Gears 3) for Domination & taking out Wingman, CTL, Guardian (my favourite in Gears 2) & all the other more specific multiplayer modes due to numbers playing them.

DBNO is a miss as revives are a big part of the fun and teamwork although they justify this in a simlar way to the merits of a quick spawn system in that people who are on the floor and not getting revived or killed would rather get back into the action quicker. COG vs COG is also nowhere near as cool or differentiating for Gears as a game as COG Vs Locust. But I'm happy with taking out grenade wall tagging, stopping power & active reload damage boosts from multiplayer.

I think the technical campaign changes will be much more popular though.

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Old 03-20-2013, 02:14 PM   #206
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

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I havent played it yet, but no, i wont be able to tolerate that. I want my Gnasher AND my Lancer. I use both MULTIPLE times per match depending on the situation and i cant fathom not being able to fall back and rely on one of the two. Thats just an absolute deal breaker for me. I wont pick the game up until thats either fixed or they add a "classic" game mode. Guess ill just end up waiting for the real Gears dev to take this series back.
It's the main thing I don't like. I'm not asking for a tonne of weapons but a Gears game without being able to use both lancer and shotgun is just ..weird. I can't imagine going into battle with just one or the other. It becomes more a game of trump cards or Rock Paper Scissors with one guy being the massive favourite depending on the range the 2 players find themselves at when they see each other. No chance to adapt and play them at their own game to see who is more skilful on that occasion.

Also on active reloads I didn't make clear in earlier posts that the thing that is being taken out is the active reload damage boost, not the active reload itself. Not sure if that would have made a difference to the discussion but just wanted to clarify.

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Old 03-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #207
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

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Its not as good as 3 imho...feels very bare bones... Kind of lazy...if that makes sense.
Yea i got that sense immediately after hearing peoples impressions. Like i thought it was just a quick attempt to get one more Gears in before this generation ends. Its also why im assuming theyd give it to People Can Fly, EPIC is prob working on a Gears for the next gen console.

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Old 03-20-2013, 04:17 PM   #208
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It's the main thing I don't like. I'm not asking for a tonne of weapons but a Gears game without being able to use both lancer and shotgun is just ..weird. I can't imagine going into battle with just one or the other. It becomes more a game of trump cards or Rock Paper Scissors with one guy being the massive favourite depending on the range the 2 players find themselves at when they see each other. No chance to adapt and play them at their own game to see who is more skilful on that occasion.

Also on active reloads I didn't make clear in earlier posts that the thing that is being taken out is the active reload damage boost, not the active reload itself. Not sure if that would have made a difference to the discussion but just wanted to clarify.

Yea to me thats an unacceptable change. The half ass amount of maps, the no DBNO, the removal of the active, the removal of core game modes. Its just too much. Unless there are some major DLC's planned to add in EVERYTHING that PCF stripped out, then i am going to pass on this. Maybe ill go buy it used from gamestop just to play it, but ill take it back for the full refund prior to the 7 days being up.

Hah then whats the point of even using the active reload if theres no damage boost? Again i think it was a stupid thing to omit and was omitted just so PCF can say they changed something.

The cards were stacked against PCF for me tho, i mean i think Gears 3 has been the pinnacle of MP gaming this gen. I thought it was as close to perfect as you could get. I really, really loved that MP.

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:44 PM   #209
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

The point is you have a faster reload. There's no stupid damage boost which should have been taken out years ago but the fact that you have the ability to reload faster can still turn the tides in a battle.

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Old 03-20-2013, 08:04 PM   #210
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But you CAN use shotgun and lancer at the same time, just not as starting weapons. You only start with one and then pick any other weapon up as your second. It's no different to Halo giving you a primary and a pistol or something. That's not a bad change, it forces everyone to kind of be on the move instead of just hunkering down.

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:29 AM   #211
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Plus everyone just uses the gnasher anyways

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:34 AM   #212
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Yeah, that's a change I don't mind. It makes you think more about what your starting weapon will be and more keen to try out map weapons.

But yeah, SORELY missing DBNO, Horde and any sort of MP incentive in terms of characters, skins, rewards. I mean, there are 3 achievements that involve you leveling up 3 times but there's barely enough unlockables to get you to level 30.... I mean, not even anything for re-upping?

It just makes me want to play Gears 3 again. Also, I still miss some of the Gears 3 style of MP games that I think there was still room for.

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Old 03-23-2013, 12:17 AM   #213
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Default Re: Gears Of War: Judgment

The multiplayer is improved in about 5 or 6 ways and worse in about 15. A bit disappointing. The shotgun is really good now, less range & wider spread as it should have.
No wall-planting of grenades makes it possible to move around the map quickly without being forced to check every corner. And I also like the removal of stopping power (although not everyone deos).

Taking out DBNO makes deaths look pretty stupid when a player is rifled down but I think I will eventually get used to not having it any more. Quite poor though is COG Vs COG rather than CoG Vs Locust. It takes a chunk of the personality and mood out of the game. And on (just) a few occasions in the wrong lighting I got confused by which player were my teammates & which were enemies. Add to that the lack of playable characters and it gets visually a bit boring compared to Gears 3 & all the available options.

With only 4 multiplayer maps I was hoping they would be 4 classics but they're ok, not great. The verticality is fun to see the 1st few times but I think it actually hinders gameplay & doesn't really suit Gears. Also lacking is the game modes & not just in number. Team Deathmatch without the Gears style elimination ending loses the drama. FFA is not as appealing as it might have been & Domination unfortunately is a long way short of KOTH and in fact even short of Domination in CoD due to map design and spawn points. Also factoring in map size (& the maze-like structure of 1 or 2 of them) means you are spending a lot of time moving between caps & not fighting as much as you should be. There is none of the manic 5 on 5 scenarios that can occur in KOTH so multi-kills are not as common as players are spread all over the map. It works better in CoD as each team has a capture point right near their spawn that is essentially theirs and "B" is the one to fight over. Not so structured here.

Spawning with grenades is stupid. Everyone on both teams could have frags! And the stim grenades are surely something that should have been left in Overrun/Survival where they fit well. It's a bit of a cheap tactic for multiplayer.

Also I can't believe anyone gametested this and didn't find the melee & especially scorcher to be crazily overpowered. I've died more from being melee'd tonight than in about a thousand hours of gameplay across the Gears games! It's become a new tactic which shows how the game has regressed. The 2 hit melee down & "2-piece" were finally taken out of the game after years of being complained about & now PCF put it straight back in, & actually upgrade it to a 2 hit melee kill (as no DBNO).

And when people said Survival was Overrun with bots I was sure they were exaggerating but it really is. That mode has none of the magic of Horde. Overrun is a good new mode but I think they focused on it too much as giving it 4 dedicated unrecyclable maps while the multiplayer is crying out for maps is misallocation of resources.

I'm sure the campaign will be great and that will in itself make this a more than worthy purchase for me but it looks to me like PCF tried to do too much. There are many improvements but they have unnecessarily lost a lot of the things that already worked well. All 3 games were popular, well regarded games so a revolution wasn't needed, far better to build and improve on a good foundation so that you keep your existing fans while making new ones.

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Old 03-23-2013, 07:26 PM   #214
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Anyone not want their code for the download of Gears of War? A friend of mine told me she wants to play the orig game and I was just gonna give her my code but iv decided to hold off on the game. If anyone doesn't want their code. Let me know. I can paypal someone like 5 bux for it

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Old 03-24-2013, 08:52 PM   #215
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Had high hopes, my brother picked it up so i threw it in. Went into it blind, didn't realize no horde mode. I play gears for horde mode. That's it. I looked for it, didn't see it and got anxious. I then played some other mode called survivor or something. It sucked, only one gun everyone jammed into one area, etc. Horde was so fun in 3, build defenses and whatnot. Why take this out? Game is a total fail, very disappointed. Campaign may be fun but i was too sad to even look. Threw 3 back in

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Old 03-24-2013, 09:10 PM   #216
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Dude, play the campaign. It's basically Horde mode anyway.

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Old 03-24-2013, 10:08 PM   #217
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Yeah i saw some of those aspects when my brother was playing campaign but i just felt so put off by not having horde available that it left a sour taste in my mouth. Like i said i thought 3 introduced some cool things to horde and it was a shame it was sort of discarded.

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Old 03-24-2013, 10:39 PM   #218
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Had high hopes, my brother picked it up so i threw it in. Went into it blind, didn't realize no horde mode. I play gears for horde mode. That's it. I looked for it, didn't see it and got anxious. I then played some other mode called survivor or something. It sucked, only one gun everyone jammed into one area, etc. Horde was so fun in 3, build defenses and whatnot. Why take this out? Game is a total fail, very disappointed. Campaign may be fun but i was too sad to even look. Threw 3 back in
Man i feel ya. NO excuse for removing a CLASSIC game mode like Horde. I mean hell Gears 1 introduced that mode which started a huge fad within the industry. More examples of PCF not knowing a damn thing about what they are doing and just trying to alter s**t for the sake of it.

Quote:
Yeah i saw some of those aspects when my brother was playing campaign but i just felt so put off by not having horde available that it left a sour taste in my mouth. Like i said i thought 3 introduced some cool things to horde and it was a shame it was sort of discarded.
Agreed again. I really wanted to pick this up, to at least try it, but PCF's meddling has just put me off. I may purchase the game used at some point(as i do really want to experience the campaign), or rent it, but for now, im deff not buying new. I mean the Horde mode and MP are HUUUGE reasons why i play Gears and i just cant dig the changes or complete omissions.

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Old 03-24-2013, 10:48 PM   #219
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I agree but that's why you should play the campaign. It's about the only good thing about the game. No sense in dismissing it entirely until you've at least tried it's best feature.
That's what I'm doing. I'm going to fully complete it on Insane and then just go back to Gears 3 for the mp.

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Old 03-24-2013, 11:00 PM   #220
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I don't think you'd like it Pat. The one weapon loadout means nearly everyone spawns with a shotgun (which I don't personally mind) and rifles are kind of useless. The funny thing is I hardly get ever get killed by a shotgun, it's always a melee or power weapon (of which there are way too many). I don't think I get so angry playing any other game.

As big a Gears fan as I am the multiplayer on this is only as appealing as a Call of Duty to me as it is now (play for a month & then move on). And even if they make the required changes, I'm getting sick of every Gears game's multiplayer having fundamental problems at launch that would have been obvious to anyone who plays the game. Hire some staff who understand basic multiplayer gaming. I won't be around 6 title updates later for them to get it right.


Do have to say though that the Campaign looks like it will be really good from what little I've played of it. Also I'm (unexpectedly) beginning to enjoy Overrun & Survival grows on you a bit after a while. Although I'd prefer the freedom of a Horde 3.0 with every enemy & final boss character from all 4 games thrown in. The 10 waves isn't a problem but the class based restriction makes Survival too different. Would have been fine if they'd included both modes but PCF like to give with one hand and take back with the othe.... err both hands.

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Old 03-24-2013, 11:03 PM   #221
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What I find bizarre is that the campaign has clearly borrowed elements from Horde 2.0. The segments where you have 30 seconds to place turrets, grenades etc before the next wave? That's great. Why the hell don't we have a mode just for that?

I mean, when you think about it, campaign is just extended, loosely story based Horde rounds and the declassifieds are essentially just the bonus objectives.

The biggest kick in the pants for me was Aftermath... The story pacing and cinematic elements were consistent, not broken up every 5 minutes by a jarring section cut... THAT'S the game I wanted.

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Old 03-25-2013, 12:34 AM   #222
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I agree but that's why you should play the campaign. It's about the only good thing about the game. No sense in dismissing it entirely until you've at least tried it's best feature.
That's what I'm doing. I'm going to fully complete it on Insane and then just go back to Gears 3 for the mp.
Yea you make a good point. I'll deff play it for the campaign at some point

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Old 03-25-2013, 12:43 AM   #223
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The thing about the campaign is, I find it has a much weaker story and it's missing all the great, incidental dialogue from the previous games. So many parts where you're just trekking from point A to point B and there's no story or character development to fill the gaps so it feels a little hollow from a narrative perspective.

That said, the gameplay scenarios are great. The map designs, objectives, enemies, weapons etc feel great and a lot more refined that the usual Gears courtyard with symmetrical cover fare. There's a bit that's like storming the beach on D-Day, a great bit in a dust filled room when you're fighting only Cleaver wielding Therons... It just feels fun.

With that regard, I'd be happy with PCF taking the Gears reigns from now on as long as they respect a few design choices. Like 343 Industries or Ninja Theory or anyone else who takes over a franchise, it's fine to innovate and push the envelope but you can't completely forget where a franchise had come from.

Epic had worked SO hard leading up to Gears of War 3 to make it the strongest and most enjoyable multiplayer possible. They undid the MP from 1 and 2 and succeeded in gaming a MP that rivalled the big MP games of this generation.

Then PCF completely disregarded and ignored that for this game. Now, I don't think they can be entirely blamed, I think Epic should still take that responsibility. Either they didn't care, they were distracted with Cliffy B, Rod Fergusson and Mike Capps leaving or they simply wanted to give PCF the freedom and chance to do it their way for a non-number Gears title. Whatever the case is, I sure as hell hope they not only LEARN from this but come back with full force for Gears 4 on the next gen.

I still have some small hope that the Judgement MP can be improved with post launch content and patches but the simple fact is, they shouldn't have to.

EDIT: That said, Judgement has definitely given me a Gears fix so if anyone wants to play through Gears 3 again, I'd be game for it.

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Old 03-25-2013, 04:19 PM   #224
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I think PCF is just trying different things for the multiplayer. If they had followed everything Epic did than none of it would feel good or fresh. I absolutely love the multiplayer in this. They took what Gears 3 did and made it better. Wall bouncing never felt so good, the gnasher is finally back to all its glory, the lancer is still viable, the sawed off is no longer broken though rather useless. They got rid of the stupid and annoying powered up ammo when you do a good active reload though you can still do active reloading which has saved my life once or twice in a firefight as well as screwing me over. Haven't once thought oh man I miss the down but not out. I really like overrun but the cog are just plain boring to play as. Which in turn is the reason why I don't like Survival. I don't miss Horde since I never played it but Survival is definitely inferior to it. Liked the campaign, sad that Baird's smart assness and Cole's cockiness is gone but after playing the Aftermath campaign I understand it was a conscious decision to show how the characters change. Its a shame there are only 3 game modes but I only play team deathmatch anyways so this doesn't bug me at all. Domination is alright, it doesn't feel like Cod domination though it feels like Gears King of the Hill. Which is fine, I like that its alot less random, you know where guys are going to be at all times but I still prefer just my normal Team Deathmatch.

My complaints about this game: there are more skins for purchase than there are to unlock. That is unacceptable. 4 maps at launch, that is unacceptable. They brought back the two piecing where you elbow a guy to stun them and then you have an easy shotgun kill. It really hasn't been too relevant since number 1 but man its annoying.

Overall I really love this game and I've been playing it nonstop since I got it. I'm already a level 47. Is it the best game of the year so far? No that belongs to Bioshock Infinite, which was outstanding, but man I am having a good time playing it. 9/10

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Old 03-25-2013, 11:07 PM   #225
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I think PCF is just trying different things for the multiplayer. If they had followed everything Epic did than none of it would feel good or fresh.
But none of it does feel good or fresh!

343 succeeded in taking over a popular franchise where this game failed. Be innovative sure, but even more importantly respect the traditions of the property you've taken over. If you're only capable of doing that within a campaign (& lets face it designing a single player game doesn't require the same skills as constructing a well balanced multiplayer) then just make a single player game. Look at Tomb Raider & Battlefield 3, games which are great at one mode & crap at the other. The not so good mode(s) drags down the overall image of the game.

Edit: I agree that the shotgun is amazing now but all that hard work in getting it right is thrown away by the idiot who decided to make the melee 10 times as powerful. It's just 2 steps forward in many different areas and then 5 steps back. The stupidity of the melee decision is even worse when you consider that the developers were very open about the problems of Gears 2 multiplayer and discussed it with fans and that was why they changed the 2 hits to down someone with a melee (almost unanimously agreed on as a poorly balanced game mechanic) to 3. Now these idiots (I already used that word but it just fits really well here) upgrade the already acknowledged as a bad decision 2-hit-melee-down to a 2-hit-melee-kill (due to their own changes of no DBNO & single weapon loadouts). Further to what Wolvie says above, I know there might be patches and title up dates to fix these things but I'm getting sick of the game always having big faults at launch & we shouldn't have to rely on them EVERY time. And also there has to be some evidence of a learning process. If they are going to make positive changes and then forget about them and go back to the old idiocy in the next game game after, what's the point?

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