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Old 03-20-2013, 02:48 PM   #326
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Also, to answer someone else's question earlier about why Cyborg and Vixen probably weren't on the show....I'm guessing they figured BB and Cyborg would be too similar given that they both have power suits or whatever and that Cyborg would come off as an amalgamation of BB and Mal Duncan/Guardian. As for Vixen there were quite a couple of young black characters already and her powers would probably be considered too similar to Beast Boy's (assuming she was a teenager). Personally, I think Vixen and Black Canary would have made an awesome 20s/30s something duo. She could have been a mentor for Beast Boy though
That would be a real suck ass reason not to include them...

Speaking of, I think Empress is the only comic book YJ member to not appear in some way.

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Old 03-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #327
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Well there was subtle differences between the two, but they still fit the exact same role on the Team from a personality point.
Yeah, I see what you mean.

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But he didn't want out of the hero game according to the part of the script that was cut for time. That suggests he missed the hero life just as much as Artemis did.

And it's fairly obvious that the story behind Wally's death was all about Artemis. Their entire relationship was portrayed that way. He was never really important to the show, but just her character. In the first season the romantic angle served as a buffer to keep her distant from the team for most of the season. He was the reason she was afraid to tell the team about her family ("Disordered") and played a big role in why she did what she did in "Insecurity". Then they get together at the end and Wally becomes her anchor during the time-skip and lets her evolve into the character we saw her become in S2. Then she mentions multiple times during the undercover mission that she's not really sure who she is anymore, and the moment she gets her life as "Artemis" back, they take her anchor away from her.

So he didn't die because he wanted retirement or because he was inferior to the Allen's. He simply had to be killed so they could give the far more important character in the series even more to do the next season. His death {or even his presence on the show in general) had absolutely nothing to do with him or his story.
Yep, I saw the lines that were taken out. Would've been better if they kept that one in.

Hmm... I never looked at it from that point of view. Interesting and sad if that was what they were going for.

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Old 03-20-2013, 04:14 PM   #328
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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I always figured they would be members of the League, not the Team, and they would just show up in the background of an episode like Blue Devil or the Hawks. And I thought it would have been cool if Cyborg became Arsenal's mentor, since real Roy doesn't trust Oliver much anymore. I never thought about Vixen being Beast Boy's mentor, but that would have made a lot of sense.

I've always wondered, is Beast Boy's powers simply limited to animals, or does he just choose to only shape shift into animals because of his mom?
I've wondered this as well.

I think that it's probable that he can shapeshift into anything since he got the ability from M'Gann... who could shapeshift into anything. To make it that he can only become animals would not make sense due to the origin they chose for the show.

Plus, he was an animal fanatic from the moment we saw him. Since that's about the only form of entertainment he seemed to have out there in Bialyan wilderness, I can see why they'd be his choice.

As far as Vixen goes, she doesn't seem like an interesting character to me at all. Throwing her in there would be 100% for racial diversity which is also a dumb reason to throw characters into the mix (if that's the only reason). You're right when you say that her powers are too similar to Beast Boy's. They're actually quite whelming due to the fact that she doesn't even change form... her body just randomly takes on the traits XD

Cyborg would have been cool as long as he's a member of the Team and not the League. But with the bloated roster we already had in S2, he'd probably be better off appearing in a (hypothetical) Season 3. I'd be up for seeing Raven and Starfire forming the new Teen Titans that could be separate but fighting alongside the main Team.

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Old 03-20-2013, 09:58 PM   #329
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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That would be a real suck ass reason not to include them...

Speaking of, I think Empress is the only comic book YJ member to not appear in some way.
True it would be a suck reason, but keep in mind that is how the world works unfortunately.

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I've wondered this as well.

I think that it's probable that he can shapeshift into anything since he got the ability from M'Gann... who could shapeshift into anything. To make it that he can only become animals would not make sense due to the origin they chose for the show.

Plus, he was an animal fanatic from the moment we saw him. Since that's about the only form of entertainment he seemed to have out there in Bialyan wilderness, I can see why they'd be his choice.

As far as Vixen goes, she doesn't seem like an interesting character to me at all. Throwing her in there would be 100% for racial diversity which is also a dumb reason to throw characters into the mix (if that's the only reason). You're right when you say that her powers are too similar to Beast Boy's. They're actually quite whelming due to the fact that she doesn't even change form... her body just randomly takes on the traits XD

Cyborg would have been cool as long as he's a member of the Team and not the League. But with the bloated roster we already had in S2, he'd probably be better off appearing in a (hypothetical) Season 3. I'd be up for seeing Raven and Starfire forming the new Teen Titans that could be separate but fighting alongside the main Team.
How is Vixen an uninteresting character??? She can be made to be as interesting as any of the Team or lesser known League members. Throwing her in there would not be solely for racial diversity...wtf? If she served the purpose of the story then she would be interesting. There were a bunch of lesser known characters that were given the spotlight on YJ, that were probably considered "uninteresting" until they were on this show. It all comes down to how they are written and used.

Also her powers are not "whelming" ...another wtf? Her powers would be very useful given the situation. For instance if she was in a confined space with others and needed the strength of an elephant that power would be useful, rather than turning into an elephant and crushing those around her. Or if she needed to run fast and had to carry someone to safety away from danger then the speed of a cheetah without turning into a cheetah would also be useful. Bottom line you have no clue what you are talking about and just cause you can't imagine what to do with a character like Vixen doesn't mean she or her powers are less interesting or "whelming."

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I LOVED it. And that's why I think the five year jump worked. They were able to throw in several new characters and, if it had worked out, they would've been able to tell the other stories in comics or flashback episodes. I know some were not were not happy with the comics not being super easily accessible but it's not hard to find them at all.

As for Wally... If Vietti specifically said "gone", not dead, I don't take that as definitive at all.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:53 PM   #330
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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His death {or even his presence on the show in general) had absolutely nothing to do with him or his story.
Considering how his main issue early on was how he had a selfish streak early on and cared more about the thrill of adventure rather than just doing the right thing, I'd say his death showed just how much he has grown up since "Coldhearted".

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I can say the biggest difference between this show [YOUNG JUSTICE] and "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is showcased in one detail; this show expects their audience to know who H.G. Welles is, while "USM" assumes kids have never done anything but play video games in their room or watch MTV.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:44 PM   #331
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Considering how his main issue early on was how he had a selfish streak early on and cared more about the thrill of adventure rather than just doing the right thing, I'd say his death showed just how much he has grown up since "Coldhearted".
That would imply that Wally of Season One would have allowed the world to be destroyed and I don't see that. He always ended up doing the right thing when push came to shove. So I think Wally at 15/16 would have done the same exact thing he did at 21.

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Old 03-21-2013, 12:28 AM   #332
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I finally saw the series finally so I feel like I should share my thoughts. I only read Marvel comics, and I haven't even seen the Justice League cartoon or any other DC cartoons, but I decided to start watching this because I liked the premise. I thought the first season was fantastic. I was so unfamiliar with all the characters so I loved learning about them, and it felt like a show I've never seen before. And while it focused on the sidekicks, it made the Justice League look so awesome, classy, and prestigious, something I feel like the Avengers lack.

But the second season lost me a little bit. I suddenly stopped caring about Superboy and Miss Martian. Any story momentum those two had completely vanished for me. My favourite character from the first season was Zatanna, who really seemed like she was going to have bigger part later, but she basically vanished from the show. Dr Fate played a large role in the first season, and only really cameo'd in the second. There were just too many characters, and a lot of them I didn't care about; I couldn't even tell you which ones because there were so many that were poorly introduced and developed.

The Reach was way to cute for me to take seriously. They looked like Dr Seuss characters. I didn't care for any of the Beatles, and I thought Blue Beatle's stapler attack to be really silly. The Reach's meta humans amounted to very little and were all very meh. So all the actual Invasion stuff from the Invasion storyline fell flat for me.

The best part of season 2 was Nightwing, though he didn't have enough to do, and the plot where Miss Martian had to repair Aqualad's mind. Those episodes were completely stellar. It's a shame this show didn't get another season so it could have taken things slower and be more consistent. The Invasion didn't work for me, but the show introduced characters and stories that were brand new to me and I really fell in love with them.

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Old 03-21-2013, 02:07 AM   #333
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Well there was subtle differences between the two, but they still fit the exact same role on the Team from a personality point.

And it's fairly obvious that the story behind Wally's death was all about Artemis. Their entire relationship was portrayed that way. He was never really important to the show, but just her character. In the first season the romantic angle served as a buffer to keep her distant from the team for most of the season. He was the reason she was afraid to tell the team about her family ("Disordered") and played a big role in why she did what she did in "Insecurity". Then they get together at the end and Wally becomes her anchor during the time-skip and lets her evolve into the character we saw her become in S2. Then she mentions multiple times during the undercover mission that she's not really sure who she is anymore, and the moment she gets her life as "Artemis" back, they take her anchor away from her.

So he didn't die because he wanted retirement or because he was inferior to the Allen's. He simply had to be killed so they could give the far more important character in the series even more to do the next season. His death {or even his presence on the show in general) had absolutely nothing to do with him or his story.
In hindsight I agree with this to some extent. The irony is that they created a character that I considered to be the most interesting on the show, when he was seemingly only meant to be foil for some characters.

Of all the characters that were a part of the team, I can count on one hand the ones that I loved, they were Kid Flash, Artemis, Dick Grayson, and Zatanna. And two of those characters had ties to my favorite character (Wally West), that I just can't see them being anywhere near as fun without him. The other characters on the team I just simply liked, didn't care for, or was indifferent to because they were underdeveloped (with the possible exception of Beast Boy who I feel was much less annoying than his Teen Titans counterpart).

I also think Sarcastic Fan's comment about killing off Wally and the reasons behind it don't really ring true, since he had been absent and they were subtly phasing him out of the show this season. His death reeked of them wanting an emotional death BUT not wanthing him there all season. They honestly were trying to have their cake and eat it.

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:26 AM   #334
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Dread, you have no idea how depressed your post made me. Truer words haven't been spoken, but I was not ready for it.
Naturally it wasn't my intention to depress anyone. I usually feel that false hope is usually not as good as some cold reality. Not that I know for sure of course; stranger things have happened. "SUPERMAN: BRAINIAC ATTACKS" seemed to come out of nowhere in 2006 (the year "SUPERMAN RETURNS" hit) and is even getting a blu-ray treatment. It isn't impossible for "YOUNG JUSTICE" to get a TV or DTV film, it simply would be reverse course on WB Home Video's strategy of the past 5 years. And given how long production takes, even a rapidly ordered special likely wouldn't be ready for a year.

As time has gone on, however, I did find some of my theories and instincts about Wally/Kid-Flash proven true. Not all of course; I didn't believe the show would do what it did with him. However, I did see the writing on the wall for some time that he was a supporting character this season in many ways. Going back further, it does seem that he was defined more by his romantic tension and ultimately romance with Artemis more than anything he seemed to do or be by himself. While that may be a bit limiting to the kid who once was Flash, it is something which has happened to many a female character in fiction. Julia Carpenter/Spider-Woman is a perfectly fine super heroine, yet in the 90's "IRON MAN" series she's at best Tony Stark's girlfriend. Even a heroine as iconic as Wonder Woman couldn't overshadow Batman in "JL/U" when they had some romantic tension (he's the one who has to save her in "The Little Piggy", after all). So it could be argued that what "YJ" did with Wally was essentially equal time. That still doesn't make it ideal, however. In addition, having once been a major character within the DC Universe, there was little expectation of him ultimately serving as a supporting character overall rather than an equal lead among a team of six. That is in contrast to a character like, say, Casey Jones, who is cool but is always expected and accepted as a supporting character in TMNT productions.

It seems there seems to be a consensus that the lack of Wally in Season 2 did undermine the effect his finale had, and I do agree on that. Having him appear only in the final 2 episodes out of the last half of the season wasn't the wisest move. That isn't to say that his sacrifice didn't have an effect regardless, I just think it'd have been better had the show not written him off for so long.

As I stated in my review of the finale and the show, having the burden of being the only place where certain DC characters were allowed to still exist was something that "YOUNG JUSTICE" didn't ask for but it was a weight nevertheless. I do think in hindsight Season 2 did have a lot of flaws, among them being cramming so many characters into fewer episodes. There needed to be more tough love with paring down that cast, and I don't think it happened enough. The show was overly ambitious, to a fault. It's a better fault to have than, well, all the faults "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" has, but too much of anything can be counter productive. It refused to play things safe, which can always polarize an audience.

"YOUNG JUSTICE" was a good show and a better show than many which should be fondly remembered, but perhaps not as fondly remembered as some others.

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Old 03-21-2013, 07:43 AM   #335
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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I finally saw the series finally so I feel like I should share my thoughts. I only read Marvel comics, and I haven't even seen the Justice League cartoon or any other DC cartoons, but I decided to start watching this because I liked the premise. I thought the first season was fantastic. I was so unfamiliar with all the characters so I loved learning about them, and it felt like a show I've never seen before. And while it focused on the sidekicks, it made the Justice League look so awesome, classy, and prestigious, something I feel like the Avengers lack.

But the second season lost me a little bit. I suddenly stopped caring about Superboy and Miss Martian. Any story momentum those two had completely vanished for me. My favourite character from the first season was Zatanna, who really seemed like she was going to have bigger part later, but she basically vanished from the show. Dr Fate played a large role in the first season, and only really cameo'd in the second. There were just too many characters, and a lot of them I didn't care about; I couldn't even tell you which ones because there were so many that were poorly introduced and developed.

The Reach was way to cute for me to take seriously. They looked like Dr Seuss characters. I didn't care for any of the Beatles, and I thought Blue Beatle's stapler attack to be really silly. The Reach's meta humans amounted to very little and were all very meh. So all the actual Invasion stuff from the Invasion storyline fell flat for me.

The best part of season 2 was Nightwing, though he didn't have enough to do, and the plot where Miss Martian had to repair Aqualad's mind. Those episodes were completely stellar. It's a shame this show didn't get another season so it could have taken things slower and be more consistent. The Invasion didn't work for me, but the show introduced characters and stories that were brand new to me and I really fell in love with them.
I totally get that. I feel like the second season was easier to like for people who were already into DC and knew about all of the new Team members beforehand while newcomers or fans of the show only would be kind of lost. I feel like they put decent effort into trying to get you to care about at least Blue Beetle though as they explored a bit of his personal life, but for the rest of them it seemed like they just showed up and expected you to care.

If you enjoyed this, I'd highly recommend watching the Justice League and JLU show of the early 00s. It's a completely different tone and style of show but it'll give you more information on these characters while telling a fun, (more) lighthearted story.

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Old 03-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #336
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

just a pic i put together from the first episode. i really enjoyed the aesthetics of the show's animation. so many cool wallpapers you could make from the show.


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Old 03-22-2013, 12:08 AM   #337
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I agree here you go.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 03-22-2013, 08:03 AM   #338
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Did I miss that Flash Family pic during 'Endgame'? The one with Jay looking kinda young. I don't remember it at all.

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:10 PM   #339
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Did I miss that Flash Family pic during 'Endgame'? The one with Jay looking kinda young. I don't remember it at all.
No. It wasn't in "ENDGAME" at all, and I've watched that episode at least twice. It is possible it was a character model error and that bit was edited out, but was still part of the preview images package sent to websites.

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #340
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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I've wondered this as well.

I think that it's probable that he can shapeshift into anything since he got the ability from M'Gann... who could shapeshift into anything. To make it that he can only become animals would not make sense due to the origin they chose for the show.

Plus, he was an animal fanatic from the moment we saw him. Since that's about the only form of entertainment he seemed to have out there in Bialyan wilderness, I can see why they'd be his choice.

As far as Vixen goes, she doesn't seem like an interesting character to me at all. Throwing her in there would be 100% for racial diversity which is also a dumb reason to throw characters into the mix (if that's the only reason). You're right when you say that her powers are too similar to Beast Boy's. They're actually quite whelming due to the fact that she doesn't even change form... her body just randomly takes on the traits XD

Cyborg would have been cool as long as he's a member of the Team and not the League. But with the bloated roster we already had in S2, he'd probably be better off appearing in a (hypothetical) Season 3. I'd be up for seeing Raven and Starfire forming the new Teen Titans that could be separate but fighting alongside the main Team.
Duplicate powers doesn't seem to be an issue on a team with Kid Flash and Impulse, Robin, Nightwing and Batgirl

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:37 PM   #341
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

First Saturday in a while without YJ. Well, I can use this time to go running.


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Old 03-22-2013, 09:39 PM   #342
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

No YJ, no clone wars...might sleep in

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Old 03-23-2013, 08:51 AM   #343
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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No. It wasn't in "ENDGAME" at all, and I've watched that episode at least twice. It is possible it was a character model error and that bit was edited out, but was still part of the preview images package sent to websites.
Ah, okay. I thought I was going crazy...
Guys!!! It's Saturday! Don't care.

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Old 03-23-2013, 11:01 AM   #344
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Also: If you don't think YJ's Deathstroke is awesome I hate you.

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Old 03-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #345
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

“Young Justice” Finale Top-Rated Cartoon Network Show, “Green Lantern: The Animated Series” Cracks Top Five

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/20...acks-top-five/

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The Young Justice: Invasion series finale episode “Endgame” was the top-rated show for Cartoon Network for the week of March 11th – 17th, 2013, beating out other network stalwarts such as Regular Show, Adventure Time, and Dragons: Riders of Berk. The episode also beat a Sunday prime-time showing of the movie Dairy of a Wimpy Kid. The March 16th, 2013 Saturday, 10:30am (ET/PT) timeslot for the Young Justice: Invasion episode “Endgame” brought in an estimated 2.05 million viewers from an estimated 1.3 million households. The 10:30am (ET/PT) Sunday re-airing of “Endgame” on March 17th, 2013 brought in an additional 1.1 million viewers from 900,000 households. Click here to view exclusive content and media from this episode.
Young Justice: Invasion averaged an audience of 1.9 million viewers every Saturday since returning to Cartoon Network with new episodes in January 2013.
Anyone who said this is about ratings can kick rocks. CN very evidently did not like the shows or want them to return regardless of ratings.

Posting this in the GL thread too.

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:12 PM   #346
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Its always done good in ratings but CN dont care. They wanted stronger merch numbers even though this should be one of those shows where it shouldnt matter like some of their other shows.

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:12 PM   #347
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Yeah but would those numbers be the same had they not been the final episode in the series. No probably not

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:24 PM   #348
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Either way YJ was still doing GOOD in ratings.

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:48 PM   #349
Marvin
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I blame the fans for only showing up after the fact.
All those numbers proved is how many people failed to watch the show when it mattered.
Unlike Adventure Time...

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Old 03-23-2013, 05:02 PM   #350
terry78
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Fans take everything for granted until it's in danger of being destroyed.

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