The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[Mulholland '49]

Yeah, you guys really burned me.

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

- Director of two of the most successful films in the MCU so far, producer of Avengers and Iron Man 3, acted in all Iron Man films so far...has had nothing but good things to say about Marvel Studios

I wonder why he wouldn't bad mouth a major Hollywood studio... hmm...

- Had a disagreement with Marvel Studios on the final cut of the film (note he is not editor or director, but only a co-writer and actor in the film), refused to promote The Incredible Hulk in a juvenile form of protest and ended up not being asked to return in The Avengers.

Yep, he wanted the better quality film, and Marvel said screw you and heavily edited it. Figure you guys would side with Norton. But, whatever.

- By all acounts was a prima donna on the set of Iron Man 1 and was very difficult to work with. Also, he refused to make less money per picture than Robert Downey Jr., who was playing IRON MAN!! Howard was subsequently dropped for any further films.

Yeah, Marvel promised him 8 million dollars on the contract he signed for the sequel and once the movie was a hit they said "Screw You" and only offered 1 million. What a prima donna b****.

- Much like Norton, was unhappy with the final product of the film and how his role was treated in it. Before being cast, Rourke apparently balked at the amount Marvel offered him but ended up taking the role anyway. Rourke, by all accounts, appears to be yet another actor that is notoriously difficult to work with.

Damn, those actors who want a better quality film for the fans and general audience! Seriously though, if this was Fox you all would go into conniptions. The hypocrisy is astounding.

- Left the Thor sequel project based on creative differences with Marvel. By all accounts, she split on very good terms and even said that she would like to direct another Marvel Studios film someday.

The unknown director didn't bad mouth a major hollywood studio? Huh, you don't say.

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

The unknown director didn't bad mouth a major hollywood studio? Huh, you don't say.

So if former colleagues badmouth Marvel, Marvel Studios sucks. And if they have only nice things to say, Marvel Studios sucks even worse. Seems fair.

Marvel Studios certainly had their share of issues during the first three years founding a mid-major studio, though the problems seem to have diminished greatly since 2010. I admit, I give the studio a pass to a large degree because they are putting the connected universe on film that I never thought would be possible when I was a child.

But back to the topic at hand - it's easy to question FOX's motive regarding the reboot when they fund 4 big budget X-Men films subsequent to ROTSS with minimal forward progress on the FF. And the challenges facing the reboot makes it unlikely that a fiscally prudent studio head will commit the hundreds of millions required to wipe the bad taste in fans mouth from the original horrid duology. I think we're looking at a high stakes game of chicken between the studios, and I am hoping it ends up with the First Family in the MCU where they belong.

[Mulholland '49]

Originally Posted by Zarex

So if former colleagues badmouth Marvel, Marvel Studios sucks. And if they have only nice things to say, Marvel Studios sucks even worse. Seems fair.

They were both fired under shady circumstances that are still unclear and the fact that none of their original directors are returning either suggests some funny business is going on.

Marvel Studios certainly had their share of issues during the first three years founding a mid-major studio, though the problems seem to have diminished greatly since 2010. I admit, I give the studio a pass to a large degree because they are putting the connected universe on film that I never thought would be possible when I was a child.

You'll turn a blind eye because of a gimmicky shared universe? That's pretty pedantic.

But back to the topic at hand - it's easy to question FOX's motive regarding the reboot when they fund 4 big budget X-Men films subsequent to ROTSS with minimal forward progress on the FF. And the challenges facing the reboot makes it unlikely that a fiscally prudent studio head will commit the hundreds of millions required to wipe the bad taste in fans mouth from the original horrid duology. I think we're looking at a high stakes game of chicken between the studios, and I am hoping it ends up with the First Family in the MCU where they belong.

Minimal progress? They've already announced a release date for 2015, a director, a writer, and a creative consultant who are putting the film together as we speak.

And they announced it will also employ a gimmicky shared universe with the X-Men universe, so will you turn a blind eye toward that?

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

They were both fired under shady circumstances that are still unclear and the fact that none of their original directors are returning either suggests some funny business is going on.

Or just business - nothing "funny" about it.

Minimal progress? They've already announced a release date for 2015, a director, a writer, and a creative consultant who are putting the film together as we speak.

Money talks, and as far as we know very little has been spent moving this project forward.

And they announced it will also employ a gimmicky shared universe with the X-Men universe, so will you turn a blind eye toward that?

That "gimmick" led to a film that finished in the top three of all time. FOX has made no such announcement regarding a shared universe. And as for the silly "blind eye" comments, I hope FOX continues to put out quality X-Men films and comes to an agreement with Disney/Marvel on the FF.

[Mulholland '49]

Originally Posted by Zarex

Money talks, and as far as we know very little has been spent moving this project forward.

Didn't realize you were a movie executive, much less employed by Fox.

That "gimmick" led to a film that finished in the top three of all time.

That precludes the fact that it's a gimmick?

FOX has made no such announcement regarding a shared universe.

Emma Watts and Mark Millar both confirmed it.

And as for the silly "blind eye" comments, I hope FOX continues to put out quality X-Men films and comes to an agreement with Disney/Marvel on the FF.

Yeah, Fox is going to release Days of Future Past in 2014 and Fantastic Four in 2015, while Marvel will continue to release their films. Not that complicated.

[Mulholland '49]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

not to mention, Marvel also has a franchise there building. It's there films, they should have it their way.

Yeah it's not like Marvel sold those rights to Fox or anything, Just like how they sold the company to Disney. lol you guys make no sense.

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

Didn't realize you were a movie executive, much less employed by Fox.

I implied nothing of the sort, hence the use of the words "as far as we know". But if a layman such as myself can see that this project faces some extraordinary, and perhaps insurmountable challenges, I have to believe a FOX veteran could see that as well.

That precludes the fact that it's a gimmick?

Not at all - but it's a great gimmick.

Emma Watts and Mark Millar both confirmed it.

What exactly does the quote from Ms Watts "we look for fresh opportunities to innovate within our shared Marvel universe" confirm? It certainly doesn't appear as though Singer is on board with any plans to combine the FF and X-Men.

Yeah, Fox is going to release Days of Future Past in 2014 and Fantastic Four in 2015, while Marvel will continue to release their films. Not that complicated.

Days of Future Past? No question, and I am looking forward to seeing it. Fantastic Four? That remains to be seen. If you can provide some insight as to why you think this reboot could be a financial success for the people at FOX, I would love to hear it.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

They were both fired under shady circumstances that are still unclear and the fact that none of their original directors are returning either suggests some funny business is going on.

Favreau wasn't "fired" at all. He took a pass on Iron Man 3 in favor of doing Cowboys & Aliens. C&A was crap, but it was his choice. Favs not only plays Happy Hogan in IM3 but also produced the film and consulted with Shane Black. As he's still working with Marvel and Disney, it's fair to conclude that he doesn't have issues with either.

And they announced it will also employ a gimmicky shared universe with the X-Men universe, so will you turn a blind eye toward that?

You find a shared universe gimicky, but for Marvel it worked out very well. I highly doubt that the same will be true of Fox's copycat efforts, but they're greedy and stingy so they gotta chase the money. Fox has had the X-films and the FF for many years but hasn't been able to turn out films as lucrative at the box office as Marvel's Avengers franchise. Marvel has only been making films since 2008 and already racked up $3.8 Billion at the global box office, compared to Fox's $1.8 B for the X-Men franchise. X-fans like to boast that the X-universe is bigger than the rest of Marvel combined, so why has it done so poorly, comparatively speaking? No wonder Fox wants to mimic Marvel's "gimmick."

[Mulholland '49]

Originally Posted by xeno000

You find a shared universe gimicky, but for Marvel it worked out very well.

Again, how does that not make it a gimmick?

I highly doubt that the same will be true of Fox's copycat efforts, but they're greedy and stingy so they gotta chase the money.

lol Fox is greedy, but not Marvel. I wonder if the Kirby estate feels the same.

Fox has had the X-films and the FF for many years but hasn't been able to turn out films as lucrative at the box office as Marvel's Avengers franchise.

So what? As long is the new reboot is good, why should I care how it compares to the Avenger's BO earnings?

.Marvel has only been making films since 2008 and already racked up $3.8 Billion at the global box office, compared to Fox's $1.8 B for the X-Men franchise

Feel like there should be a point here, but I don't see one.

No wonder Fox wants to mimic Marvel's "gimmick."

I know, sadly people can't enjoy superhero films based on their distributor and "shared-universe" gimmick apparently.

[kaijunexus]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

Again, how does that not make it a gimmick?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

gim·mick
Noun - A trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.

This is the official definition of the word "gimmick". If you truly wish to use that word to describe the nature of the universe in which these films are based, then we could apply the word "gimmick" to just about anything. The Star Wars universe is a gimmick. The Lord of the Rings universe is a gimmick. Putting well-known actors in films is a gimmick. Any film advertising whatsoever is a gimmick. Anything that could be used to attract attention, publicity, or business to any particular film could be defined as a gimmick.

Want to apply that word to the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Then you have to apply it to everything else that even comes close to that as well.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

Yeah it's not like Marvel sold those rights to Fox or anything, Just like how they sold the company to Disney. lol you guys make no sense.

Marvel lost no control over the selling to disney. Disney agreed to let marvel keep about business in the way they have been. And so far... the deal has worked out beyond great. Marvel is in full control just like Pixar and the Muppets, and Lucas fillm all have full control still over there film houses.

get that sand out of your briefs.

[marvelrobbins]

Ask the producers of Star Wars:The Clone Wars In a couple of years If DIsney Isn't calling
the shots at Lucasfilm.And It's same as with Marvel.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Ask the producers of Star Wars:The Clone Wars In a couple of years If DIsney Isn't calling
the shots at Lucasfilm.And It's same as with Marvel.

in Star Wars case... it's a life saver.

Lucas drove his own franchise into the ground

[kaijunexus]

http://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/319479714848833536

Things are looking grim...

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

http://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/319479714848833536

Things are looking grim...

Well, it's still early. If Iron Man has a sizeable post-Avengers box office boost and The Wolverine underperforms (I think this is likely), FOX may offer Marvel the co-financing arrangement they supposedly offered for the Daredevil reboot. With Singer (apparently) unwilling to mash the X and FF franchises together, I don't see why FOX would take on the reboot risk for an expensive project with modest upside.

If Disney really wanted to put pressure on FOX, they could threaten to release a 3-D version of the Incredibles a week before the FF reboot hits the theaters. So Keep Hope Alive - at least for a little while.

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by Zarex

Well, it's still early. If Iron Man has a sizeable post-Avengers box office boost and The Wolverine underperforms (I think this is likely), FOX may offer Marvel the co-financing arrangement they supposedly offered for the Daredevil reboot. With Singer (apparently) unwilling to mash the X and FF franchises together, I don't see why FOX would take on the reboot risk for an expensive project with modest upside.

If Disney really wanted to put pressure on FOX, they could threaten to release a 3-D version of the Incredibles a week before the FF reboot hits the theaters. So Keep Hope Alive - at least for a little while.

I think Fox is so intent on keeping the FF away that they are willing to lose money to do so. Is that financially irresponsible? Yes. So, I don't really care that much anymore. Fools will be foolish no matter the voices of reason. The MCU will be just fine without the FF. Its the fans of the FF that this hurts but my advice is to, on a movie level, become fans of the other Marvel properties being made properly by Marvel/Disney. The FF as a movie franchise with Fox is a lost cause..

[Saitou Hajime]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

http://twitter.com/lemon_buzz/status/319479714848833536

Things are looking grim...

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it. This time last year we were getting the same Twitter "updates" on DD and alleged renewal of the rights, and look where that ended up. September also seems like an uncharacteristically early start for Fox in terms of production.

[Willie Lumpkin]

Originally Posted by Saitou Hajime

September also seems like an uncharacteristically early start for Fox in terms of production.

That's actually a silver lining I see on this gray cloud. With the first FF, Tim Story was announced as director and things actually started happening about a year before the release date. If they really are getting started with still 2 years to go, they may be taking this more seriously.

I'm willing to give Fox a chance as long as they invest, take it seiously and make a real effort to do it right. On those things, Marvel has a better track record than Fox, but that doesn't make it impossible for Fox to do it right - just less likely.

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin

That's actually a silver lining I see on this gray cloud. With the first FF, Tim Story was announced as director and things actually started happening about a year before the release date. If they really are getting started with still 2 years to go, they may be taking this more seriously.

I'm willing to give Fox a chance as long as they invest, take it seiously and make a real effort to do it right. On those things, Marvel has a better track record than Fox, but that doesn't make it impossible for Fox to do it right - just less likely.

I am somewhat confident that, if it comes to pass, the film reboot will be of higher quality than the first two. That's a fairly low barrier to hurdle. But I don't see a way this film can be a fiscal success for the studio. Perhaps FOX is willing to take a hit on the first one, and hope that positive word of mouth will eventually lead to demand for a second, more profitable, installment?

In any case, I personally refuse to support any franchise that keeps Hulk vs. Thing, Thor vs. Surfer and Galactus vs. Everybody clashes off of the big screen.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Zarex

I am somewhat confident that, if it comes to pass, the film reboot will be of higher quality than the first two. That's a fairly low barrier to hurdle. But I don't see a way this film can be a fiscal success for the studio. Perhaps FOX is willing to take a hit on the first one, and hope that positive word of mouth will eventually lead to demand for a second, more profitable, installment?

I think they did that with First Class. So, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that they're doing it with FF as well.

Though, if DoFP leads into FF that will build a lot of hype. Especially if DoFP is huge (it should be given the cast, release date, hype, and 3D price tag).

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by JP

I think they did that with First Class. So, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that they're doing it with FF as well.

Given the casting announcements, FOX seems to be moving away from the First Class Universe. Only four of the First Class cast (Lawrence, Fassbender, McAvoy, Holt) will be featured in the film, as compared to eight confirmed (Jackman, McKellen, Page, Berry, Paquin, Ashmore, Stewart, Cudmore) from the original trilogy. DOFP looks to be a reboot of a reboot.

Though, if DoFP leads into FF that will build a lot of hype. Especially if DoFP is huge (it should be given the cast, release date, hype, and 3D price tag).

DOFP is the big one for FOX, no question. Since The Last Stand, each film in the series has performed worse at the box office than the one preceding it - and I don't see The Wolverine reversing that trend.

And though a tease in DOFP may boost interest in the First Family, it certainly can't compare to an FF film featured in the Avengers 2 post credit scene, released in the early May Iron Man/Avengers slot supported by the Disney marketing machine and accompanied by stores filled with toys, clothing and other film specific merchandise. We shall see.

[marvelrobbins]

There was no way Origins was ever going to outgross the Last Stand.

Your kinda of hoping for failure If you think The Wolverine will make less money than first Class.

Can I remind people Iron Man 2 grossed In the 300 Million domesticly and Thor made 181 million domesticlly just barely beating the domestic gross of Origins.

Not every film from Disney Is going to make Avengers size money.

Many sequels do less than original.Even SPider-Man 2 did less than Spider-man.

Soon the question will be can disney put out a marvel film that does 200 Million or more than Robert DOwney JR Isn't starring In.

[Zarex]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

There was no way Origins was ever going to outgross the Last Stand.

Agreed

Your kinda of hoping for failure If you think The Wolverine will make less money than first Class.

Not at all. I actually don't mind if FOX keeps the X franchise. I have found most of the films entertaining and their separation from the MCU doesn't negatively impact the stories Marvel can tell. But I would be very surprised if The Wolverine outgrosses XMFC.

Can I remind people Iron Man 2 grossed In the 300 Million domesticly and Thor made 181 million domesticlly just barely beating the domestic gross of Origins.

Not every film from Disney Is going to make Avengers size money.

Many sequels do less than original.Even SPider-Man 2 did less than Spider-man.

Soon the question will be can disney put out a marvel film that does 200 Million or more than Robert DOwney JR Isn't starring In.

The X Men franchise has been very successful for FOX - but it is in decline. They wouldn't be putting a fortune into rebooting the reboot if film grosses were trending upwards.

And though the MCU films featuring Downey have been the clear winners, only one X franchise film has exceeded Thor in worldwide box office totals. And, in a clear upset, Captain America outperformed XMFC. Marvel is positioned to do very well in a post-Downey environment, though acquiring a solid though not spectacular franchise like the FF would certainly strengthen the outlook.

[marvelrobbins]

As I said In X-Men board there Is limit to X-men appeal In General audence appeal.X-Men lives In much darker world and deals with heavier themes than say The Avengers but the Iron Man and Spider-man films and by extension the Avengers are much more cwoad pleasing films that don't deal with too heavy themes.

Best case sceniros barring surprises Is The Wolverine hitting 180 Million Domesticly and 200 Million overseas and Days of future Past hitting 250 million both domesticly and overseas.

With the FF you have to treat It delicetly.It's lighter than X-Men but lighter moments should come from Interaction of characters.Like Interaction between Ben and Johnny,
Ben acts light to hide how he copes with being trapped as the thing or Ben making joke about Reed making a bunch of what Star Trek fans would call Technobabble.But you have to have elements of serious SCiFI adventre story with the lighter moments.Doom for example not treated as corporate knockoff can be one of greatest villains ever seen In
Comic Book movies.I am hoping they don't try to use alien threat In first In rebooted series.If they don't use Doom use the Mole Man.

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

As I said In X-Men board there Is limit to X-men appeal In General audence appeal.X-Men lives In much darker world and deals with heavier themes than say The Avengers but the Iron Man and Spider-man films and by extension the Avengers are much more cwoad pleasing films that don't deal with too heavy themes.

And there in lies the misguided wisdom that the FF can be in the same world as the X-Men. What they're gonna have a family movie in a dark world? The FF are better suited in the MCU on that alone. To try to make them a shared universe is to make a darker FF and that would take them out of character.

Best case sceniros barring surprises Is The Wolverine hitting 180 Million Domesticly and 200 Million overseas and Days of future Past hitting 250 million both domesticly and overseas.

I think the Wolverine will live and die on word of mouth. I don't see people lining up in drove like they most likely will with IM3 in which even if IM3 is a just a OK movie they would have made 200 mill opening weekend based on reputation of Iron Man and the MCU/ Avengers.

With the FF you have to treat It delicetly.It's lighter than X-Men but lighter moments should come from Interaction of characters.Like Interaction between Ben and Johnny,
Ben acts light to hide how he copes with being trapped as the thing or Ben making joke about Reed making a bunch of what Star Trek fans would call Technobabble.But you have to have elements of serious SCiFI adventre story with the lighter moments.Doom for example not treated as corporate knockoff can be one of greatest villains ever seen In
Comic Book movies.I am hoping they don't try to use alien threat In first In rebooted series.If they don't use Doom use the Mole Man.

Well even if they treat this movie with respect and spend the proper, at least, $150-$200 mill production budget they're still going to barely make they're budget because they gonna be over shadowed by bigger movies that year. Fox put themselves in this position to have to release this movie in 2015. What good is greed when you're losing money?? Thats always been my question about Fox being greedy.. They'd make more money giving a little with the FF in the MCU then going at it alone with this so called shared universe with the X-Men..