The New Nova

[Shazam]

Anybody read this yet?

I kinda enjoyed it......But I guess the same "Nova as a Teenager" formula is something they keep going back to......

I was hoping for something different.


I do like the Nova Black ops twist! Gold Helmets and Black Helmets? Nice!

[Mr. Dent]

I wanted to enjoy it but there was just too much working against. The retocons and ignoring of continuity was bad enough, but I could live with it if it were just that. However, Loeb's writing was very uninspired to say the least and it felt like it was just going through the motions. I'm giving it two more issues and if I still don't like it I'll just stick to Guardians and Thanos Rising.

[NinjinSteve]

Coming from someone who LOVED DnA's Nova... I didn't hate it. I liked the idea of a kid finding his Dad's old Nova helmet. Other than that core concept though I thought the issue was a rehash of standard teen superhero origins. Been there done that kind of stuff. Also absolutely hate how continuity is (seemingly) being ignored (Rocket Raccoon and Gamora showing up TOGETHER 17 years before they form the Guardians?).

I miss and wish they would bring Richard Rider back. For the life of me I don't understand why Marvel would spend years revitalizing, developing and building the Richard Rider Nova into such an awesome and badass character to just replace him. Especially since they did the same with Star-Lord, Drax, and Thanos who "died" in the very same event as Rich Rider. Yet they are all back. Argh! Change!! Why!?

[THANOSRULES]

It was decent.

A bit too decompressed to judge at this point..but in general well written aside from the cliche teen hero at high school moments.

It excelled when it tried to be a new Nova book and was at it's worst when it tried to be spider man.

Marvel needs to stop being so "old" when evaluating what "young" readers want. The stuff with his father and family was great...the high school stuff just comes off as out of touch and cliche.

I guess the book was #14 in diamond sales...which is about as good as one could hope for...let's hope this is Loeb's ticket back to relevance and not another dissapointment.

..and please let's see some historical Nova/ DnA stuff sooner rather than later (such as Rider)

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I wanted to enjoy it but there was just too much working against. The retocons and ignoring of continuity was bad enough, but I could live with it if it were just that. However, Loeb's writing was very uninspired to say the least and it felt like it was just going through the motions. I'm giving it two more issues and if I still don't like it I'll just stick to Guardians and Thanos Rising.

Maybe they will tie everything together. I'll give it 10 issues....

[TheCorpulent1]

I f***ing hate the Nova black ops thing. It sickens me that literally no altruistic fantasy organization can exist at this point without a seedy underbelly.

[Artistsean]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

I f***ing hate the Nova black ops thing. It sickens me that literally no altruistic fantasy organization can exist at this point without a seedy underbelly.

It does make for some interesting situations like in New Avengers, where Captain America is Fonda from 12 Angry Men. But I agree, most superheroes are now in the gray area while the ones that aren't stand out more like Spider-Man, Barry Allen, and Captain America.
Reading the recent All New X-Men I thought at the end, THIS is how it all starts. You make a compromise like that and you end up like Cyclops.
It also seems like if there is ever the leader of some organizastion he/she has usually (always) made serious compromises in the line of duty that woulds cripple anyone else. Nick Fury, Charles Xavier, Amanda Waller, the Gaurdians from Green Lantern, (I think) Dumbledoor (spelling?) from Harry Potter, Batman as head of the Bat-Family, Cyclops as head of the X-Men/Mutants, etc.

I never read the old Nova Corps (spelling?) books, wanted to and now it seems pointless, but I like this new series. It looks really fun. I love the whole set up. Feels like a great character already. I love the relationship with his father and mother and sister. No one is really at fault there, sort of.

[THANOSRULES]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

I f***ing hate the Nova black ops thing. It sickens me that literally no altruistic fantasy organization can exist at this point without a seedy underbelly.

I think your overreacting a bit...and I'm a huge "hater" on the grim and gritty-ization of Marvel.

I just think not enough is ironed out about what these black Nova corps are it's a bit quick to judge.

In fact they may have just been for "tough" missions and/or sorta like our military SF and or Vietnam LuRPs/army Rangers who worked independent of the main army in small tight units and trained especially to be embedded deep in enemy territory...it doesnt mean they have to be some nefarious hit squad. In units like these...a high espirit de corps tend to develop of Us Vs them (and an ego) and Loeb captured a bit of this in issue #1.

I actually think it could be a great idea...we shall see though. I really think it makes sense the Nova Corps would have something like them.

[NinjinSteve]

I am currently re-reading the first Annihilation series. (It's really good). But I noticed that in it, MULTIPLE times I might add, it is clearly stated that Richard Rider is the FIRST and ONLY human to have ever been in the NOVA Corps AND that he has only been a NOVA for 5 years (at the time).

So this whole business with Sam's dad being a Nova 17 flipping years prior doesn't work with continuity. And again Gamora and Rocket Raccoon being there as well.

[Themanofbat]

I have a friend who absolutely loved the issue...

[JewishHobbit]

Strange friend.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by NinjinSteve

I am currently re-reading the first Annihilation series. (It's really good). But I noticed that in it, MULTIPLE times I might add, it is clearly stated that Richard Rider is the FIRST and ONLY human to have ever been in the NOVA Corps AND that he has only been a NOVA for 5 years (at the time).

So this whole business with Sam's dad being a Nova 17 flipping years prior doesn't work with continuity. And again Gamora and Rocket Raccoon being there as well.

The black Nova Corps in general does not work in continuity. But, just ignoring that, since the black Nova Corps was a secret devision then no one would have known about another human having been a Nova. And I guess, since we're dealing with space time, you could say that 17 Earth years is different from how much time actually passes by in space, so Gamora and Rocket could be there 17 Earth years ago as their intergalactic travel is based in light years and such.

...just trying to make it work.

[JewishHobbit]

One of my biggest pet peeves. It isn't the readers' job to make the story work, it's the writer's.

[Themanofbat]

Originally Posted by JewishHobbit

Strange friend.

Well, he has no prior knowledge of Annihilation, or anything else in the Marvel space comics... so he read it for what it was, and he really dug it.

You liked Bendis' New Avengers, and I don't call you strange... :cmad;

In this jaded pissy world, I'm glad someone can still pick up a book and just enjoy it for what it is...

[JewishHobbit]

Originally Posted by Themanofbat

Well, he has no prior knowledge of Annihilation, or anything else in the Marvel space comics... so he read it for what it was, and he really dug it.

Well, if he has no prior knowledge of the cosmic landscape, I suppose it'd be alright.

You liked Bendis' New Avengers, and I don't call you strange... :cmad;

Likewise, you enjoyed BND

In this jaded pissy world, I'm glad someone can still pick up a book and just enjoy it for what it is...

Jaded is right. I miss those unjaded days, back before I knew anything about what happened behind the scenes, or before I cared what happened outside of the main X-titles and 90s Spidey. Back when I used to lay out all my comics and read them over and over again. Maybe that's why I still have those books memorized to this day and can barely remember what happened in the issues that came out last week. I loved it back when numbering meant something.

Those were my favorite days as a comic fan. I didn't know a single writer, nor realized when a book changed hands. For me, it was just an ongoing narrative that "Marvel" wrote (as if Marvel was a single entity). I remember being impressed by how well "Marvel" played the traitor to the X-Men storyline, believing that they had it all planned out since day one. I remember thinking, "If I ever get cancer or something, I'm going to have to write "Marvel" and ask them who the traitor is so I don't die without knowing."

I was very naive back then, but it made for a better reading experience.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by Themanofbat

Well, he has no prior knowledge of Annihilation, or anything else in the Marvel space comics... so he read it for what it was, and he really dug it.

You liked Bendis' New Avengers, and I don't call you strange... :cmad;

In this jaded pissy world, I'm glad someone can still pick up a book and just enjoy it for what it is...

I will say that reading it without prior knowledge to Marvel comics would probably be a much better experience...continuity wise anyway. Loeb's writing in general leaves a lot to be desired for me in that first issue. Bendis' Guardians 0.1 definitely read well but he's messing with continuity by having Quill be some upstanding guy who wants to protect Earth.

That said, given that I am familiar with it, it's hard to enjoy what is basically a soft reboot of the entire cosmic line, and essentially making them lite versions of what they once were.

[Themanofbat]

Originally Posted by JewishHobbit

Jaded is right. I miss those unjaded days, back before I knew anything about what happened behind the scenes, or before I cared what happened outside of the main X-titles and 90s Spidey. Back when I used to lay out all my comics and read them over and over again. Maybe that's why I still have those books memorized to this day and can barely remember what happened in the issues that came out last week. I loved it back when numbering meant something.

Those were my favorite days as a comic fan. I didn't know a single writer, nor realized when a book changed hands. For me, it was just an ongoing narrative that "Marvel" wrote (as if Marvel was a single entity). I remember being impressed by how well "Marvel" played the traitor to the X-Men storyline, believing that they had it all planned out since day one. I remember thinking, "If I ever get cancer or something, I'm going to have to write "Marvel" and ask them who the traitor is so I don't die without knowing."

I miss those days as well... ahhh, to be a Marvel reader back in the 70's & early 80's again...

[THANOSRULES]

Go re-read "everything Nova" and "Nova Corps" and it will make you understand that there are huge chunks of the Corps history we have no clue about or have not been explained much...and there are others that make little sense.

I'm fine with a "Black Nova Corps"..in fact many here probably dont even know it's a tribute to Marv Wolfman's first primordial fanzine incarnation of the character who was called "Black Nova".

..now Raccon and Gamora active in Pre-FF#1 marvel time? That's the dumbest part of the book.

I'm spring loaded prepping to roast this book...but the bottom line was issue #1 didnt suck.

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by THANOSRULES

I think your overreacting a bit...and I'm a huge "hater" on the grim and gritty-ization of Marvel.

I just think not enough is ironed out about what these black Nova corps are it's a bit quick to judge.

In fact they may have just been for "tough" missions and/or sorta like our military SF and or Vietnam LuRPs/army Rangers who worked independent of the main army in small tight units and trained especially to be embedded deep in enemy territory...it doesnt mean they have to be some nefarious hit squad. In units like these...a high espirit de corps tend to develop of Us Vs them (and an ego) and Loeb captured a bit of this in issue #1.

I actually think it could be a great idea...we shall see though. I really think it makes sense the Nova Corps would have something like them.

I hope you're right. Secret missions already give me a bad feeling, but hopefully they turn out to be more Secret Avengers (pre-NOW version) than X-Force.

Anyway, looking back, the first issue really wasn't too bad. I see a bit of Keith Giffen and John Rogers' Blue Beetle in Sam. I may actually end up going back and reading the series, but it won't be until after I see what people are saying about the first full arc or two. Jeph Loeb's recent work has conditioned me too much to wait for the other shoe to drop.

[NinjinSteve]

I will say this... I appreciated the little history of Richard Rider given on the last page of Nova #2. And I got a little excited when it said they would delve into Rider's fate after he was left in the Cancerverse at some point in the new Nova series.

At least there is that. 2nd issue wasn't terrible. Some fun stuff with Rocket and Gamora. Things are moving a little to slow for my taste. And again it's very similar to Star-Lord's origin in Guardians of the Galaxy .01. The Nova helmet only works for Sam and his dad's DNA signature just like Star-Lord's gun only works for himself and his dad's DNA signature.

[Dread]

I really enjoyed the original Richard Rider version of Nova, especially from the ANNHILATION era afterward when Keith Giffen, Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning had him grow up and become more of a space bad ass. He went from needing a hand taking down the Rhino in Robert Kirkman's MARVEL TEAM-UP to ripping Annihilus inside out and saving the universe. After that, "DnA" did a 3 year run on NOVA which was probably some of the best stuff of their career, at least in recent memory. His sacrifice in THANOS IMPERATIVE I thought was fair, even if I doubted it'd be the end.

Now? The first taste I got of the Sam Washington character was on "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN", which is only the first cartoon Jeph Loeb produced from start to finish as TV czar, and it's rubbish (at best). The fact that he's negating prior continuity to do whatever he wants - like Bendis did with Star-Lord and the rest of the GOTG - doesn't surprise me. Loeb's been a hack of the highest order for some time now, at least to me. The last work anyone considers to have been above average have been his collaborations with Tim Sale - and considering Loeb tells us again and again and again and again and again that he "writes for his artists", I think I'll take him for his word and attribute at least partial or halfway success for those stories on Sale. His best works for DC since "Long Halloween" were often mindless action romps made to have as many villains show up as possible, such as BATMAN: HUSH or his run on WORLD'S FINEST which has been immortalized into not one, but two DTV's by WB home video (a tribute saved only for Frank Miller and Dwayne McDuffie thus far). The last thing of Loeb's that I read, AVENGERS: X-SANCTION was perfectly mediocre, middle of the road action fare. Probably the most amusing part of that was seeing his "Gary Stu" character, Red Hulk, lose to Cable in as absurd a manner as Red Hulk once was allowed to deck out the Watcher. His ULTIMATUM was close to a death blow for the Ultimate imprint and sales for it still haven't recovered since. It's only in the upside down and inside out world of comic books where a producer who literally ran a hit network TV show into the ground for two seasons could then be promoted into a position where he's literally in control of every small screen adaptation which the company does. That's like someone promoting Uwe Boll to being Senior Vice President of Quality Control for, well, anything.

I'm boggled when some people tried NOVA and they're shocked, SHOCKED, that certain bits of it ignore continuity or flat out make crap up or seem to have been copied and pasted from the HACK'S REFERENCE GUIDE OF GENERIC WRITING, 101. Loeb's sort of been on that roll for a while now. Why was it a surprise? That's why I didn't bother. He once stated in an interview about many writers missing deadlines because they're perfectionists and they turn in scripts late. While I am certain this happens, there is such a thing as going too far in the other direction, and I fear Loeb has by this point in his career.

Bendis is someone who I feel may be a better editor than writer, as his ideas usually are fine, it's just his execution which made me want to strangle myself. Loeb? Unless he teams up with Tim Sale more, I don't know where his quality control is anymore. The only difference is that Bendis' ability to influence media adaptations of Marvel's legendary franchises is limited, while Loeb's in charge of a large arm of that now. His best successes have been "A:EMH" and the initial Marvel anime, both of which began production before his promotion and the former at best was diminished slightly from his meddling. In terms of comics, I wouldn't expect anything beyond middle of the road action fare which checks off every cliche on the checklist, because meeting that deadline is what counts. Maybe that's become Loeb's problem; caring more about the dotted line than genuine emotion or art.

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, I think this is the first time I've ever seen you rank someone lower than Bendis.

I'm proud of you


And for the record, I agree. I've defended Loeb at times but the only stuff of his that I've really enjoyed over the past 10 or so years were Hush and Fallen Son. I don't even think I'd rank the rest as mediocre. You obviously liked X-Sanction more than I did.

That said, I never did read that much of his "color" minis with Tim Sale. I read Spider-Man Blue years ago and remember nothing about it. I should really try them out sometime. How many were there? Spider-Man: Blue, Hulk: Gray, Daredevil: Yellow... anything else?

[Anubis]

Cap White I think.

[JewishHobbit]

Was that Loeb and Sale? I didn't think it was.

I just looked it up... there's only a 0 issue. Was it a one shot or did they just never finish the mini?

[Anubis]

I don't know.