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#926 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,888
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If anything it would have been great to see more of the Batcave. It was too briefly used. The so called improvements in it were nothing to get excited about.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#927 | |
2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 19,337
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Yeah, the batcave was a bit disappointing. After two films of buildup, they shouldn't have taken the minimalist approach.
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#928 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,469
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I thought the rising platforms were cool. Felt like a natural hybrid of the Begins cave and the TDK bunker.
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#929 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2010
Location: P
Posts: 1,813
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I hear that complaint a lot , so that's why im asking. I always think the space of action in film is supposed to be minimalist so...i never really understand it. More time there ? More scenes ? Is that it ? |
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#930 | |
2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 19,337
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I would have liked the cave to be more useful. A nicer batcomputer would have been a start. Instead of keeping his "arsenal" under Lucius' roof, Bruce could have kept the spare Tumblers in the batcave (a Bane assault on the batcave would give Bane access to those Tumblers). Maybe some sort of detective lab set up in one place, with equipment ready to be used. A physical training area to keep Batman up to peak condition.
Having all this stuff would have also indicated Bruce's inability to fully let the Batman persona go, despite "resigning". He has all this detective / workout / transportation etc. equipment out and ready to go, so that at the first sign of real trouble he can return to crimefighting.
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#931 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19,612
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I'm not just saying let's kill alfred cause it's neat. I'm suggesting they go the route of having someone in the bat family outside of that one damsel in cliched distress, go down. Why Alfred and not the other 3 members? 1. Cause it would hurt Bruce the most(and this is a story about bruce's loss), and it's perfectly set up with all those tired rants Alfred spewed about retiring in the first act. 2. Care to explain where Alfred is for 2 and a half thirds of the film? Essentially months...not using the bat family's vast resources to find bruce, what's more, not being hunted down like a dog by the league, just.....noooothinnng. 3. When bruce is lying in the prison for months, hows much more "tragic" would it be if he had a thought as to how alone he now is, Alfred died, isn't buried and bruce is the one in a hole. ....of course not, this is Nolan's movie and everything from the drama to the action to the ninja's is said but not fully dramatized. I say Alfred goes down in the first act and the tone is set from there. Nolan had him disappear for almost the entire film anyways. And get this, he can still end it in the silly cafe in France, only Alfred isn't there...kinda tragic. Considering what we actually got, in particular Alfred taking a 3 month vacation and Batman seemingly walking into a bs trap with guns aimed at him whilst he got into a drunken brawl....I say the home invasion direction would have been leaps better. Cliche or no. However the one down side is it might mean nolan would have to shoot more action. ...batman sitting in his house for 8months cause he lost a girl and "all the crime in gotham is now gone" isn't my idea of tragic, it's bad direction. How many kids families have been gunned down in gotham over this 8 years Bruce? Bane takes him out at the beginning and then you can have your long break. This way you don't have batman come out of retirement only to take another long break only to come back again... Streamlined.
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#932 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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If I had to guess, I'd say none since the mobs create guys like Joe Chill and there is nothing of a hint of any mob action.
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#933 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2010
Location: P
Posts: 1,813
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With that , let's say , narrowed simplification of Bruce's reaction to his duality...i kinda understand why you dont think its tragic. Gladly i think the movie shows much more than that.
But hey , maybe your fan-fic is a masterpiece . Or leaps better as you said. Quote:
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#934 | ||
2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 19,337
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#935 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,469
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As I've said before, first we see Batman rising from the ashes of a broken Bruce Wayne. Then we see Bruce Wayne rising from the ashes of a broken Batman. It's the whole point of Bruce's arc. He becomes human again. Just because something is simpler or more streamlined doesn't make it more compelling. |
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#936 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19,612
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Poverty, fuels crime. Greed fuels crime. Corruption...in his own company no less fuels crime. All these things aren't gone. But again let's say they are... What of the (inter)national scene, this insane state(city) law has been passed and Gotham is a utopia, what about the next city over, does Bruce literally not care(what about the kids ![]() If anything Gotham crime would simply move to the next town, in fact it's more than likely. I know Nolan doesn't like the idea of a cinematic universe but even he must be aware that there are more cities in the US than just Gotham. No, the real reason Bruce is taking the 8 month hiatus isn't because he's supposedly "beaten crime" by way of municipal policy, it's because of the trauma he faced in TDK. I can see why this "eager to quit" batman has hit a sore spot on many a batman fan's face. Almost any other superhero in comicdom(with the exception of maybe Nick Fury) is more in character to quit than Batman...but that's just me.
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"I care because filmmakers now make films under crippling security because of parasitic gossip. makes movies worse" -James Mangold. |
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#937 | |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,568
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But really this is something you either like or don't like. I remember hearing some people not wanting Bruce to fake his death because they felt another film ending with a lie would not be appropriate, because all truths should come to light by the end of TDKR. |
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#938 | |
2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 19,337
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I don't like the idea of Bats quitting unless he is physically incapable of being Batman (as in Batman Beyond).
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#939 |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,568
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Forced into retirement does not equate quitting. I can understand people not liking the idea, it's even a stretch for me, but don't bastardize the concept.
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#940 |
4AF
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,143
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I find it funny that some people find it hard to accept Batman's 8 year retirement in TDKRises but are fine with it in TDKReturns. What are the differences? Dent Act instead of the government forcing superheroes into hiding and Rachel gets killed by the Joker instead of Jason.
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#941 | |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,568
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If you look at Nolan's trilogy as a sort of condensed short story, it's not really off-putting. |
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#942 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19,612
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I don't think it's all that equivalent but....Nolan has that effect on people.
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"I care because filmmakers now make films under crippling security because of parasitic gossip. makes movies worse" -James Mangold. |
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#943 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
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As far as I'm concerned, Nolan's trilogy is the only truly complete beginning to end version of the mythos that exists. So by nature some things will be condensed, but the payoff is so worth it. I don't know if we'll ever get a movie series where Batman and The Joker have this rivalry that spans years, unless they reboot in a universe that's already in play with everything established. Most comic book films deal with relatively short timespans. |
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#944 | |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,568
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I think a lot of us got lost in that world that TDK setup and began to explore, Bruce in his prime, already on the fly as a fully established Batman, finishing off the old guard of the mob, only to battle the bigger problem - escalation. The rise of the freaks which gave us the Joker, who then spawned Two-Face. I'll admit that TDK is my favorite "angle" that the trilogy tackles, but I'm very glad that Nolan was bold enough to tell a definitive end to Bruce's journey. |
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#945 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19,612
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Being happy with what we got, and it being the best, amazing as I hear often around here, are different things. I'd be happy if the 3rd Nolan film only had organized mob crime and a well told story. That doesn't mean I'm going to champion the vision/direction(not with Scott Snyder doing his damndest to make Batman awesome again).
I just think it could have been (alot) better. As for closure, I personally "would have been happy" with TDK ending. But that's me.
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"I care because filmmakers now make films under crippling security because of parasitic gossip. makes movies worse" -James Mangold. Last edited by Marvin; 03-26-2013 at 06:51 PM. |
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#946 | |
4AF
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,143
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#947 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19,612
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I'll browse on over there.
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"I care because filmmakers now make films under crippling security because of parasitic gossip. makes movies worse" -James Mangold. Last edited by Marvin; 03-26-2013 at 08:02 PM. |
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#948 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,469
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Yeah Snyder is taking a bit of an unfair beating. Imo, if Morrison had done some of the same exact things people would be calling it genius.
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#949 | ||
2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 19,337
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#950 | |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,888
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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