The Tommy Merlyn Thread

[HighFivingMF]

[Human Torch]

Has anyone seen Tommy's contact lens commercial yet?

[Syncer]

Alright.

So what does everyone think Tommy's future is heading towards?

[godisawesome]

I'm thinking they'll subvert our Smallville grown suspicions and instead use Tommy to show just how far gone his dad is. If any -cide is going to happen here, I'm figuring it won't be patricide. I think Barrowmen's a good enough actor to be a recurring arch-enemy for the rest of the show, and it would be fun to see "Lex" turn good and "Lionel" rejecting him for not being evil enough.

[greenlantern248]

I agree I think the Meryln we know from the comics is Barrowman and Tommy will be the thing that pushes either Merlyn on to Arrow or Arrow onto Merlyn

[Tzigone]

Originally Posted by godisawesome

I'm thinking they'll subvert our Smallville grown suspicions and instead use Tommy to show just how far gone his dad is. If any -cide is going to happen here, I'm figuring it won't be patricide. I think Barrowmen's a good enough actor to be a recurring arch-enemy for the rest of the show, and it would be fun to see "Lex" turn good and "Lionel" rejecting him for not being evil enough.

Interesting idea. I was thinking of the idea of Tommy finding out his father was the dark archer and knowing the vigilante and other archer are enemies and knowing both are killers and both are trying to "save the city" but not knowing the extent of his father's plans. And then he has to decide who he sides with. And I'd have him pick Ollie. But I thought that might not be dramatic enough. So then there's the Zuko way. Have him confronted - Green Arrow on one side, Merlyn on the other. Both wanting him on-side (presumably because of affection, and not because he's useful). Then we could have him trying to talk down his father, maybe? Unsuccessfully, leading to Malcolm either reject or attack Tommy (either out of anger for the "betrayal" or just because he rates his plan more importantly)?

[Syncer]

Well maybe Tommy will know his dad is going to be the archer since they are getting closer in the next few episodes. According to i09, he gets a scene with a gun in the finale, which I suspect he could shoot Ollie or his dad, who knows. Keep on Speculating!

[Tzigone]

. (don't see a delete post button)

[Skorch]

I really think that, although it'll be a real journey and personal struggle getting to that point, Tommy is on the path to being a baddie. We've seen him being a genuinely good guy, but I feel that his behavior sometimes is a foreshadowing to what he may ultimately become later. Obviously he and Oliver will have a scuff or two over Laurel, that's been obvious from the start. (And let me remind how he freaked out over the double-date dinner between him/laurel and Oliver/Helena, and how he was so upset about Laurel being involved with the Hood, with his reasoning involving a fear that she is "infatuated" and "goes for the bad guys"... that will come into play later!) But there will be an even greater reason to be at odds with Oliver and it will come from Malcolm. All he needs is to feel alone, misunderstood, even betrayed by his best friend, and mix that with some kind of revenge factor involving his dad and you have the perfect storm. He already shows that he is upset about Oliver not being upfront and truthful about being the Hood, or even what happened on the island. He's also upset about the fact that Oliver suspected him of being involved with the vertigo stuff in last night's episode. Now that he's quit being GM of the nightclub, and has asked his father for a job, we are looking at the point where Tommy and Oliver might begin to start growing apart for good.

My main question is, will Tommy learn about the Queen's Gambit, the Undertaking, and all of the nefarious things that Malcolm has been up to for the past several years? My honest thought is that, if Tommy learned about the fact that his father had something to do with Robert's death, Oliver's absence for 5 years and Walter's disappearance, he won't side with Malcolm, and won't have adequate reason to become a villain.
But if Malcolm doesn't reveal that, or if someone else doesn't, then the potential is there.

Anyway, I'm really excited for what's to come. This last episode was fantastic.

[Tzigone]

Now that he's quit being GM of the nightclub, and has asked his father for a job, we are looking at the point where Tommy and Oliver might begin to start growing apart for good.

Okay, I like Tommy, but I snickered a little when he did that. When he was quit, I was like "you don't exactly have a lot of work experience Tommy" and then he went to Dad - guess he didn't have too much self-respect to ask Daddy for a job. Actually, that entire scene (with Malcolm) came off a little odd to me. Tommy wasn't speaking/acting quite like I expected. Did he say his father said the nightclub thing wouldn't work out - and if so, did we see Malcolm say that?

My honest thought is that, if Tommy learned about the fact that his father had something to do with Robert's death, Oliver's absence for 5 years and Walter's disappearance, he won't side with Malcolm, and won't have adequate reason to become a villain.

I tend to agree. Malcolm could try to write off Robert's death as unfortunate necessity, sell it that Robert was no better than himself - a "greater good" type of thing. Tommy might possibly buy that (even though he cared about Robert), and the greater good line is the same one Oliver is using. However, what about the hostage situation? I can't recall how much the public knew about it and it being another archer. If he knows his father took completely innocent people hostage, that's going to be a much harder sell with him. I mean, he's having issues with Oliver murdering criminals, so Malcolm planning to kill thousands of innocents, and having (presumably) killed the innocent children of those that betrayed him is not something I can see Tommy accepting (at this time, I mean). Leaving out Goblin serum or some other crazy-making process, it seems to me that for Tommy to go bad, he's going to have to learn about Malcolm's plans a bit at a time instead of all at once. So he accepts one unpleasant bit and that makes more likely to accept the next, whereas if it was dumped on him all at once, he'd reject it. But maybe not.

[godisawesome]

A more tragic turn would be to have Tommy be completely unaware about the Undertaking until he's gone to far to go back. If Tommy will be the new bad guy, I'd hope his perception of Malcolm and Ollie's battle is that of an understandable blood feud that he feels he's being dragged into. So I'd rather he start out as just a rival until he starts killing enough innocent people he doesn't care about the Undertaking.

I prefer the Malcolm as Merlyn theory because it makes their family the opposite of the Queens; One father slays himself in a last redeeming act to drive his son to atone for their sons, and the other father slays his son in a final damning act trying to ultimately corrupt his family's legacy. It would also help define Malcolm as an irredeemably evil villain who nonetheless has a very disturbingly emotional storyline.

[Ryder]

Originally Posted by godisawesome

I prefer the Malcolm as Merlyn theory because it makes their family the opposite of the Queens; One father slays himself in a last redeeming act to drive his son to atone for their sons, and the other father slays his son in a final damning act trying to ultimately corrupt his family's legacy. It would also help define Malcolm as an irredeemably evil villain who nonetheless has a very disturbingly emotional storyline.

Poor Tommy, his life will be turned upside down nomatter what.

[marvelrobbins]

I think Malcolm Is going to die and Tommy will take over for him.That It seems where they have been setting up.

I think the arrow writers are better with consentcy than Smallville writers were.

[Tzigone]

I think you are probably right (because his name is "Merlyn"). I just hope we're both wrong (because it doesn't seem in-character at all). Despite his bitterness and anger, so far Tommy's actions have all been above-board. He has not shown any indications that he'd willingly become a villain and kill innocent people, IMO - he's very upset with the murdering of criminals. He hasn't even shown low-grade ruthlessness. He doesn't threaten to reveal Oliver's secret to get things (indeed, despite his anger, he has protected said secret several times), he doesn't spin false stories to make Oliver or the Hood look bad to Laurel in order to secure her affections so she'll stay with him (instead he breaks up with her, because he believes she would choose Oliver/belongs with Oliver), and so on and so on. He really isn't even being selfish or self-serving.

Right now, the only way I'd buy Tommy being willing to kill innocent people as the result of the death of his father is some sort of mental-break, leaving him not entirely sane, as a result of his father's death. Because it would be completely inconsistent with his earlier behavior. They might be able to sell me Tommy being willing to target Ollie (and maybe Digg or Felicity, but no one else) at first and then gradually getting worse, if the played it right.

Oliver's smartest move would be to tell Tommy the truth and have him listen to the recording before he makes any move at all against Malcolm.* If he kills Malcolm, or even confronts him, Tommy will find out about it, and Tommy knows his secret identity and where his secret lair is, so if he (very reasonably) thinks the worse and goes to the cops, Oliver is screwed.

* I suppose if Oliver didn't act as the Hood, or leave a green arrow or anything else that led back him around, not telling Tommy would work, but I just can't see that happening.

[TheHighlander]

I think Tommy is over the edge now......

[Ultimatehero]

R.I.P. I'd say the writers took a lot of us by major surprise tonight.

[mr. peasant]

Originally Posted by Ultimatehero

R.I.P. I'd say the writers took a lot of us by major surprise tonight.

Indeed. Did not see that coming. At least, not this early in the show. In my opinion, the writers didn't quite maximise the character's potential and there were a lot of missed opportunities - especially during the first half of the season where he seemed to be either just there or not at all.

[Grommers]

Yeah, I'm really surprised at this. I felt like he was one person who could have had so much story.

Oh well, out with the old in with the new (ROY)

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by mr. peasant

Indeed. Did not see that coming. At least, not this early in the show. In my opinion, the writers didn't quite maximise the character's potential and there were a lot of missed opportunities - especially during the first half of the season where he seemed to be either just there or not at all.

It was definitely a bold move on their part to kill his character off, but I honestly feel like its the right decision. I mean, its very tough to suprise the fans of the comic because we more or less know what's coming. Everyone expected him to become the dark archer and take over for his father.

We really got to see his character transform from the beginning of the season and I felt really bad for Tommy in the end. Sure they could have used his character more but frankly we got the important stuff from his character so I don't know how much more they could have done. In the end you still were hoping Tommy would stay as a good guy and he did.

[Justin]

They had two options.

- Kill Malcolm and have Tommy take over as the Dark Archer
- Have him die.

He went out a hero, they made the right call. Asides from the last 3 episodes where they were understandably teasing him turning, he's been nothing but a good guy from the beginning.

Now we have Tommy's death to keep Ollie/Laurel apart a little longer, and it fuels things even further with Malcolm, who will most likely start the season in jail if he really is alive.

This was the right call, and so so sad. Tommy deserved to go out a good guy.

[Dark Raven]

It's good they didn't follow the Spider-Man trilogy blueprint.

Is it possible though (and this is probably the wrong thread for it) that if the writers were prepared to kill off Tommy Merlyn, who is a major character in the comics, that they could also kill off Laurel or even not have her turn into Black Canary?

[The Squirrel]

It's sad to see Tommy go, but it's better than seeing him become a villain. He got to die a hero.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

It's good they didn't follow the Spider-Man trilogy blueprint.

Is it possible though (and this is probably the wrong thread for it) that if the writers were prepared to kill off Tommy Merlyn, who is a major character in the comics, that they could also kill off Laurel or even not have her turn into Black Canary?

I don't think they'd kill off Laurel because its the CW, they aim the show at women as well as comic fans, and she's pretty much set to be the long term will they won't they love interest. They're also crazy high on the actress and she does a lot of the PR stuff with Oliver.

As for not having her turn, I kinda expected Sarah to be the Black Canary, but the writers have mentioned a lot of times, and Katie Cassidy too, that she will be eventually. I think they will, I think killing Tommy was part of that Laurel to Black Canary story.

[carrrnuttt]

Here's a great interview that also covers why Tommy had to be the one to go:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3287672.html

How did you come to the decision that Tommy needed to be the one to make the ultimate sacrifice?

It was really hard. At the end of the day, it worked out for what we refer to as the creative map that, of all the characters, it’s Tommy’s death that impacts everybody. Obviously Oliver and Laurel the most, but even Thea [Willa Holland] because of their closeness and Moira [Susanna Thompson] because she’s now responsible for the death of Oliver’s best friend, and Lance [Paul Blackthorne], who knows that Laurel loves Tommy ... it’s the one character whose death impacts everybody. And that’s really what you’re looking to do. When you kill off a character, you’re closing off a variety of storylines because there’s no story to be told with that character, and the only reason to do it is to open up new storylines and more storylines by killing off a character than you have by keeping them alive. Tommy’s death will reverberate throughout the whole of Season 2, and there are even some things we have planned for the middle and end of Season 2 that would not be possible or wouldn’t have the same weight if Tommy had stayed alive.

[Justin]

Q Is he really, 100 percent dead? No Lazarus Pits or "Buffy"-style misdirects where next season we'll open on a funeral and then he'll walk out completely fine?
A The only thing I will say is what I said to Colin Donnell after he filmed his last scene, and that was, “I’m really glad this show does flashbacks.”

Very interesting.