The Joker A Reality?

[BatmanGoesToRio]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joker

Okay, the more & more I think about it, if someone had a mind just as warped as the Joker in this movie, they could actually accomplish what he did, or possibly do worse. What do you guys think?

The Joker in TDK was a clairvoyant, had an endless number of henchmen who didn't care that he randomly kills some of them and burned millions of dollars (how does he pay his fellow followers?). How could that happen in the real life?

Just think about the bank robbery in the prologue. Every thing has to work the exact way the Joker predicted it at the exact time - like the bus entering the bank exactly on time and the last of Joker's goons standing at the exact place at the exact second. This is ABSOLUTELY unrealistic. Which is okay because it's a movie. But in reality - no way. One single traffic jam, the bus arriving a few seconds too late - and Joker would have been a dead man.

The same with putting dozens of tons of explosives in a hospital or onto two ferries without anybody noticing. No way.

[gwynplaine]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joker

Okay, the more & more I think about it, if someone had a mind just as warped as the Joker in this movie, they could actually accomplish what he did, or possibly do worse. What do you guys think?

The Joker is a fictional character and no one could pull off what he does in the film, but some aspects of his personality, madness, twisted spirit, dark charisma etc..., can be found in real life figure like Rasputin, Nero playing the fiddle "watching the world burn", or guru-like types like Manson, Jim Jones etc.
I thought it was interesting that the Joker in TDK borrowed some elements from real life killers or psychos, grounding him more in reality, while on the other hand, keeping the trademark theatrical, flamboyant, unrealistic characteristics. Great balance imo.

[jonathancrane]

Originally Posted by gwynplaine

The Joker is a fictional character and no one could pull off what he does in the film, but some aspects of his personality, madness, twisted spirit, dark charisma etc..., can be found in real life figure like Rasputin, Nero playing the fiddle "watching the world burn", or guru-like types like Manson, Jim Jones etc.
I thought it was interesting that the Joker in TDK borrowed some elements from real life killers or psychos, grounding him more in reality, while on the other hand, keeping the trademark theatrical, flamboyant, unrealistic characteristics. Great balance imo.

This.

Even though Nolan secularized the mythology, it still lies within the realm of fantasy.

[BatmanGoesToRio]

Originally Posted by gwynplaine

Nero playing the fiddle "watching the world burn"

Nobody knows if that's true. A lot of sources say that Nero was shocked about the burning Rome and let citizens into his palace's gardens so they are safe.

[gwynplaine]

Originally Posted by jonathancrane

This.

Even though Nolan secularized the mythology, it still lies within the realm of fantasy.

Agreed

Originally Posted by BatmanGoesToRio

Nobody knows if that's true. A lot of sources say that Nero was shocked about the burning Rome and let citizens into his palace's gardens so they are safe.

Interesting. I like the other story too Anyway it's probably hard to know for sure what really happened in these ancient times.

[BatmanGoesToRio]

Originally Posted by gwynplaine

Interesting. I like the other story too Anyway it's probably hard to know for sure what really happened in these ancient times.

Yep. Nero wan't even in Rome when the city was in flames. He was in his summer residence Antium (where he was born). Some historians guess he had assistants who set the city on fire so he could build a "New Rome" aka Neropolis. But that is also not for sure.

There's only one thing for sure. Nero never played a fiddle because violins were invented during the renaissance - one thousand years later.

[gwynplaine]

Originally Posted by BatmanGoesToRio

Yep. Nero wan't even in Rome when the city was in flames. He was in his summer residence Antium (where he was born). Some historians guess he had assistants who set the city on fire so he could build a "New Rome" aka Neropolis. But that is also not for sure.

There's only one thing for sure. Nero never played a fiddle because violins were invented during the renaissance - one thousand years later.

Cool, thanks for the info

[BatmanGoesToRio]

Originally Posted by gwynplaine

Cool, thanks for the info

You're welcome. But I made a mistake. The renaissance was about 1,500 years after the times of Nero.

[gwynplaine]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joker

Okay, the more & more I think about it, if someone had a mind just as warped as the Joker in this movie, they could actually accomplish what he did, or possibly do worse. What do you guys think?

To elaborate on the topic, from the "Clockwork Orange" copycat assaults in England (which prompted Kubrick to ban the film for many years in the country), to the teenagers who went on a killing spree like the characters from "Natural Born Killers", and even the Aurora tragedy and the Joker reference, etc. unfortunately there have been examples of criminals or lunatics who seem to take some inspiration from movies. I remember a line in "Scream" where I think the killer said something like: "Movies don't make serial killers, they just make them more creative."
Interesting discussion that probably would need a lot of time to address more completely.

[Procrastinator]

Originally Posted by BatmanGoesToRio

Just think about the bank robbery in the prologue. Every thing has to work the exact way the Joker predicted it at the exact time - like the bus entering the bank exactly on time and the last of Joker's goons standing at the exact place at the exact second. This is ABSOLUTELY unrealistic. Which is okay because it's a movie. But in reality - no way. One single traffic jam, the bus arriving a few seconds too late - and Joker would have been a dead man.

But its not a matter of realism. You have to remember that Joker's plans were completely different from the schemes of other movie villains becose of one simple reason - Joker in TDK didn't giva a **** wether he would live or die. He just done things. He thought them through, and obviously was very clever, but he didn't care for his safety, didn't plan for contingencies in case something went wrong. He just pushed forward and that was his strenght.

And I think its an important part of TDK Joker. It also informed a lot of his plans. Some people complain about Jokers plan relying on too much coincidece. But when You think about it, none of the things Joker did were impossible, they just seemed too convinient. People say that there are too many "what ifs" in his plans, but he didn't care. Other villains might care, couse if something goes wrong, they get killed or imprisoned. He just ACTED, he did stuff, like a force of nature he is often described as. His plans worked exactly becouse he was daring, he always went head first, without worrying about the consequences for his health. And it just worked. This kind of effectivnes born out of 100% commitment, and not holding back, or being cautious out of fear is exactly the Joker's method in the madness.

For example the school bus scene You mentioned. If Joker was any other criminal this would be way too risky, too many chances to get cought on spot, or bring the attention of police later. But Joker didn't care, he just acted and his succes was a mixture of luck but mostly effectivnes born out of daring, and alwyas doing things at the right moment, without second-thought. The bus escape plan might seem crazy, but with all the crazy he created at the bank, even with other bus drivers seeing him exit the wreckage, there could have been too much commotion and confusion for the authorities to catch him just there on the spot. For someone like the Joker, that all he needs.

And that's why I think its plausible to get a real life crazy freak to wreak some havoc, if he shared Jokers philosophy. Of course not the level of carnage like in the movie, obiviously. But I could well imagine someone playing on the nose of the police for quite a long time, if one was as daring, clever and totally commited to his shennanigans as TDK Joker.

[bullets]

The Joker needs goons. I think a real life Joker's goons would lead to his downfall. It's incredibly difficult to evade the law and luckily most people aren't "cunning " enough to pull it off.

Also I'm sure most mentally deranged criminals are totally committed to their "shenanigans". However being mentally unstable doesn't work in their favor.