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View Poll Results: Is it time to legalize pot?
Yes 177 74.37%
No 48 20.17%
I don't know 13 5.46%
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:11 AM   #676
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #677
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Quote:
Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Cannabis is no where as dangerous as alcohol, driving or not.



Your baseless assumption that:

1) Stoned driving is anywhere nearly as dangerous as alcohol or texting

2) Is considerably discouraged by prohibition

Lastly, legalization doesn't mean stoned driving will be allowed. It will be illegal and strictly punished identically if not more than it is now.
Which is worse is completely irrelevant. The fact is any intoxicant can and will
cause, dependent on varying factors like age/weight/gender, neurological changes. When the cannabinoid receptors in the brain are bombarded, there will always be some level of impairment. If legalized, we'll have two things that will do that.

If someone wants to do that to their brain, so be it, but if they follow that up by performing actions that harm others either intentionally or by negligence, they should be punished severely for inflicting their risky lifestyle choices on others. Since our laws governing things like drunk driving are an absolute joke, why would we feel good about yet another psychoactive drug being more easily attainable?

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:28 AM   #678
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Scar Predator View Post
Which is worse is completely irrelevant. The fact is any intoxicant can and will cause, dependent on varying factors like age/weight/gender, neurological changes. When the cannabinoid receptors in the brain are bombarded, there will always be some level of impairment. If legalized, we'll have two things that will do that.
I think his point was basically you have people driving while using weed now and if you legalize it chances are the amount of people driving under weed will remain relatively stable, so it's a moot point whether it's legal or not in terms of the driving under the influence argument

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:37 AM   #679
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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I think his point was basically you have people driving while using weed now and if you legalize it chances are the amount of people driving under weed will remain relatively stable, so it's a moot point whether it's legal or not in terms of the driving under the influence argument
A percentage of people who may not care for alcohol but like marijuana will perform tasks that can (and will) cause others harm. Moreover, some people will combine the two, which can be extremely volatile. There is no doubt that legalizing marijuana will cause subsequent legal issues, and since the government doesn't handle alcohol well, I'm sure they won't handle pot well, either.

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:48 AM   #680
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Scar Predator View Post
A percentage of people who may not care for alcohol but like marijuana will perform tasks that can (and will) cause others harm. Moreover, some people will combine the two, which can be extremely volatile. There is no doubt that legalizing marijuana will cause subsequent legal issues, and since the government doesn't handle alcohol well, I'm sure they won't handle pot well, either.
Yeah it's better to make things like alcohol illegal because it worked so well during Al Capone's era, right?

You keep focusing on the harm marijuana does.

Do you have any statistics of how many fatal accidents a year are caused by someone being stoned?

I mean since you're wiling to ruin careers, separate parents from children, incarcerate countless growers, withhold medicinal benefits from the sick/suffering, empower drug cartels, waste the potential hemp industry, waste tax dollars on enforcement, waste billions in potential tax revenue, raid innocent Americans daily, all to prohibit a relatively harmless plant that gives people the munchies.

So where are those statistics or should we just keep doing all those things based on baseless fear mongering?


Last edited by MessiahDecoy123; 04-06-2013 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:50 AM   #681
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Let's not forget if they are stoned, they will more likely be at home in front of the TV watching Spongebob Squarepants, then out driving or getting in fights with people
and if they do drive stoned they will likely be cautiously going 15 miles under the speed limit unlike the everyday drunks who speed crashing into school buses.

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:55 AM   #682
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
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lolz, who do you think created cannabis, by far one of the most useful plants on the Earth???

Do you drink alcohol?

Do you think alcohol should be illegal?

Do you know how many people have died from alcohol in the last 10 years versus how many have died from cannabis in the last 1,000?

Do you know hemp has thousands of industrial uses and cannabis has hundreds of medicinal uses?

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:56 AM   #683
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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
and if they do drive stoned they will likely be cautiously going 15 miles under the speed limit unlike the everyday drunks who speed crashing into school buses.
I remember the 1 time in my younger days when I was driving stoned, I was so paranoid I was going to get caught I was making sure I didn't break 1 law(i was driving 1 click under the speed limit, making sure I do full stops at stop signs, not gunning it through yellow lights(which i am guilty of most of the time) and constantly being aware of everything around me. It was almost as if I was a machine that was going through a series of checks for potential issues or issues 2 blocks from me non stop

I don't want to say i was a better driver stoned but I think my focus on making sure I don't screw up at least was a much better alternative then driving drunk


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Old 04-06-2013, 12:15 PM   #684
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Yeah I realize some people are bad drivers stoned but I doubt bad enough to compare to drunk driving where a person impulsively speeds, swerves wildly and drives incredibly wreckless.

It's like outlawing planes even though plane crashes are rare and allowing cars when car crashes kill 40,000 people a year.

It's not only hypocritical it's incredibly stupid.

and we don't even know if prohibition stops stoned driving to any respectable degree or if it results enough car crashes to justify outlawing this useful plant forever.

But lets keep it illegal anyway forgetting it was made illegal because of corporate greed and blatant racism to begin with.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:27 PM   #685
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Quote:
Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
lolz, who do you think created cannabis, by far one of the most useful plants on the Earth???

Do you drink alcohol?

Do you think alcohol should be illegal?

Do you know how many people have died from alcohol in the last 10 years versus how many have died from cannabis in the last 1,000?

Do you know hemp has thousands of industrial uses and cannabis has hundreds of medicinal uses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Yeah it's better to make things like alcohol illegal because it worked so well during Al Capone's era, right?

You keep focusing on the harm marijuana does.

Do you have any statistics of how many fatal accidents a year are caused by someone being stoned?

I mean since you're wiling to ruin careers, separate parents from children, incarcerate countless growers, withhold medicinal benefits from the sick/suffering, empower drug cartels, waste the potential hemp industry, waste tax dollars on enforcement, waste billions in potential tax revenue, raid innocent Americans daily, all to prohibit a relatively harmless plant that gives people the munchies.

So where are those statistics or should we just keep doing all those things based on baseless fear mongering?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Yeah I realize some people are bad drivers stoned but I doubt bad enough to compare to drunk driving where a person impulsively speeds, swerves wildly and drives incredibly wreckless.

It's like outlawing planes even though plane crashes are rare and allowing cars when car crashes kill 40,000 people a year.

It's not only hypocritical it's incredibly stupid.

and we don't even know if prohibition stops stoned driving to any respectable degree or if it results enough car crashes to justify outlawing this useful plant forever.

But lets keep it illegal anyway forgetting it was made illegal because of corporate greed and blatant racism to begin with.
After all this thorough explaining I don't think there is something else to discuss.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:33 PM   #686
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scar Predator View Post
Which is worse is completely irrelevant. The fact is any intoxicant can and will
cause, dependent on varying factors like age/weight/gender, neurological changes. When the cannabinoid receptors in the brain are bombarded, there will always be some level of impairment. If legalized, we'll have two things that will do that.

If someone wants to do that to their brain, so be it, but if they follow that up by performing actions that harm others either intentionally or by negligence, they should be punished severely for inflicting their risky lifestyle choices on others. Since our laws governing things like drunk driving are an absolute joke, why would we feel good about yet another psychoactive drug being more easily attainable?
You have no idea what cannabis does to the brain.

There are hundreds of unique cannabis strains and they all effect people differently.

Sometimes a person will be stimulated creatively or spiritually, gain insight or self-awareness, meditate easier, or simply move outside their rigid perspective.

Sometimes it will just make sex, food, sports, tv, music, movies, nature, hiking, games, etc ten times more enjoyable.

That doesn't include the mental illness it can help like anxiety, PTSD. depression, insomnia and even psychosis.

You shouldn't dismiss a drug (at least publicly) or anything in general you haven't researched adequately.

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Old 04-06-2013, 12:59 PM   #687
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by SV Fan View Post
Let's not forget if they are stoned, they will more likely be at home in front of the TV watching Spongebob Squarepants, then out driving or getting in fights with people
lol at the idea of being stoned and caring enough to get into a fight.

honestly, as bias as this sounds, I don't think people should make an accurate judgement on this unless they have smoked pot before

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Old 04-06-2013, 01:03 PM   #688
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:54 PM   #689
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

Quote:
Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post

That is the dumbest cartoon I have ever seen, and extremely stupid to use even as a funny argument for the legalization of marijuana.

I'm all for the legalization of marijuana, but good lord be smart in the arguing.

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Old 04-06-2013, 05:48 PM   #690
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That is the dumbest cartoon I have ever seen, and extremely stupid to use even as a funny argument for the legalization of marijuana.

I'm all for the legalization of marijuana, but good lord be smart in the arguing.
Um..why..? The guy has been pretty smart if you read the topic from the start and has provided every possible explanation. Why shouldn't he post a cartoon that depicts some true facts?

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:10 PM   #691
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Alex_Spider View Post
Um..why..? The guy has been pretty smart if you read the topic from the start and has provided every possible explanation. Why shouldn't he post a cartoon that depicts some true facts?

I agree that marijuana is no more, dangerous than alcohol....but it is NOT without its problems, and it is silly and naive to simply forget that it is a drug simply because when you smoke it you just feel good.

As I said, I don't mind it being decriminalized, and later legalized....not a problem to me as all, as long as we realize that it is a drug and it can be abused as any drug can....

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:13 PM   #692
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

I think you missed the joke. The harmless and legal was for the alcohol, not the acts. Even though all those acts tend to be the result from alcohol, it's still considered legal.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:17 PM   #693
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I think you missed the joke. The harmless and legal was for the alcohol, not the acts. Even though all those acts tend to be the result from alcohol, it's still considered legal.
I don't see any of this as a joke, that is probably the problem. I see it as something very serious, that if we begin to legalize these things we better think carefully and thoughtfully as we do it....and funny little jokes are not going to bring people over to our side of legalization. That is not how that fight will be won, it will be won by showing the economic pluses of the legalization. I have a problem with those arguments of "its not really all that bad..." it is a drug and intelligent people realize that and think about it....those kinds of arguments to me...make it laughable, rather than a viable process.

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:17 AM   #694
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Yeah it's better to make things like alcohol illegal because it worked so well during Al Capone's era, right?

?
In a round about way, that's my point. Prohibition was an overreaction, and now the goverment has let the pendulum swing the opposite way to the point of being weak. The USG still hasn't learned how to properly manage the unfortunate drug culture in our country.

The most logical choice, of course, is to abstain from intoxicating substances. But since so many people don't, the burden goes on the government to assure that the users aren't effecting the non-users. Right now, that is not the case. People cause accidents, get into physical confrontations, and operate vehicles with drug-compromised brains. This usually happens multiple times with no suitable consequences to the offender.

While I don't see a problem from a government point with the person who smokes pot and lays on his/her couch all day, the USG still has to account for the person who has a serious psychotic event because of their marijuana use. The real truth about marijuana, like any drug, is that it effects different users in various ways. For those who can manage it, so be it. For those who don't take steps to protect others from their habit, lawmakers should step in and take these steps for them.

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:21 AM   #695
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

What's rather interesting is the parallels. The corruption and profiteering in particular. Both alcohol and marijuana were criminalized for supposed moral reasons, but their criminalization was actually driven by corrupt officials and business interests.

At the height of prohibition countless public officials both on the local and federal level were on the take.

The current situation isn't so different. Due to transparency it's a bit better. No senators probably have their own pot fields.

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Old 04-07-2013, 01:05 AM   #696
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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The USG still hasn't learned how to properly manage the unfortunate drug culture in our country.
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...893946,00.html

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:48 AM   #697
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the USG still has to account for the person who has a serious psychotic event because of their marijuana use.
That sort of reminds me of

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 04-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #698
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Know your dope fiend. YOUR LIFE MAY DEPEND ON IT

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Old 04-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #699
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Scar Predator View Post
In a round about way, that's my point. Prohibition was an overreaction, and now the goverment has let the pendulum swing the opposite way to the point of being weak. The USG still hasn't learned how to properly manage the unfortunate drug culture in our country.

The most logical choice, of course, is to abstain from intoxicating substances. But since so many people don't, the burden goes on the government to assure that the users aren't effecting the non-users. Right now, that is not the case. People cause accidents, get into physical confrontations, and operate vehicles with drug-compromised brains. This usually happens multiple times with no suitable consequences to the offender.

While I don't see a problem from a government point with the person who smokes pot and lays on his/her couch all day, the USG still has to account for the person who has a serious psychotic event because of their marijuana use. The real truth about marijuana, like any drug, is that it effects different users in various ways. For those who can manage it, so be it. For those who don't take steps to protect others from their habit, lawmakers should step in and take these steps for them.
Marijuana does not cause any serious psychotic event not unlike alcohol, other drugs etc. Um, by your logic the government should prohibit guns or cars because some people use them to kill in purpose or accidentally. They are feeding the population with a propaganda of fear about a harmless plant that has countless of medical, nutritional, clothing and many more. I haven't heard any killing spree in Netherlands from a "psychotic" marijuana user yet.

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Old 04-07-2013, 09:56 PM   #700
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by Alex_Spider View Post
Marijuana does not cause any serious psychotic event not unlike alcohol, other drugs etc. Um, by your logic the government should prohibit guns or cars because some people use them to kill in purpose or accidentally. They are feeding the population with a propaganda of fear about a harmless plant that has countless of medical, nutritional, clothing and many more. I haven't heard any killing spree in Netherlands from a "psychotic" marijuana user yet.
I do have to agree with his thought though on the use of marijuana and then getting in a car, depending on how much you have smoked, etc. The drunk driving laws, I don't necessarily see them as a joke, most judges I know are extremely tough on drunk drivers who have killed someone. Where they are ridiculously stupid is when the person gets a DWI over and over again and gets off with little more than a fine. Those need to be toughened.

IMO, you need to be as tough with marijuana. That is why I would rather decriminalize it first, and move slowly towards legalizing. Colorado and Washington have already run into problems because they legalized it before they had answered all of the questions of how much is too much to drive, etc....and Colorado looks like they are going to go with a ridiculously small amount in the system before you are ticketed with driving...and so they have simply switched from putting people in jail for small amounts of marijuana on them to putting people in jail for small amounts of marijuana IN them....

Decriminalize first, research heavily on the influence on driving, and go from there....to legalization with those questions answered.

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