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View Poll Results: In your opinion, which saga was better?
Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 39 25.66%
Christopher Nolan's Batman 113 74.34%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:14 PM   #51
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

Spider-Man was good for the time, but it doesn't hold up very well in my opinion. Expectations from superhero movies were very different back then and I think the movie was so well regarded not because it was a great film, but only because it was the first time in recent memory that we were given a much more "honest" adaptation of a comic book.

Spider-Man 2 was and still is pretty great. It's a summer blockbuster superhero thrill ride, and it doesn't try to be anything else.

Spider-Man 3 isn't the piece of **** that a lot of people make it out to be, but it really isn't very good. Simple as that.

Batman Begins was a bit of a disappointment to me when it was first released, but it has grown on me over the years. The first two thirds of the movie are excellent in my opinion, unfortunately it can't resist going into cliche comic book movie territory in the final act.

The Dark Knight is the greatest superhero movie ever made. No hyperbole. It single-handedly elevated the material as well as the entire genre.

The Dark Knight Rises is a good movie, but it sadly doesn't escape the "threequel curse". There are too many weird leaps of logic that are made in the first act in order to get to the meat of the movie.

I don't feel there's really a debate to be had here. Both are summer blockbuster franchises, but where Raimi never attempts to go beyond that, Nolan clearly exhibits a much higher level of craft and artistic ambition with these films than any of his contemporaries.

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Old 04-07-2013, 06:52 AM   #52
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Soapy View Post
The Dark Knight Rises is a good movie, but it sadly doesn't escape the "threequel curse". There are too many weird leaps of logic that are made in the first act in order to get to the meat of the movie.

I don't feel there's really a debate to be had here. Both are summer blockbuster franchises, but where Raimi never attempts to go beyond that, Nolan clearly exhibits a much higher level of craft and artistic ambition with these films than any of his contemporaries.
Honestly i feel this is the only place i ever hear that? To me critical and financial success equals curse broken.

Not to mention the film was very well received among the general audience. For some reason the fanboys (almost exclusively) have pounced on it, while if you talk to the average movie viewer most people thought the movie was enjoyable.

I know IMDB ratings are not the end all be all but i mean an 8.6 for TDKR vs a 6.3 for spider-man 3 says a lot about what the people think.

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Old 04-07-2013, 07:59 AM   #53
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

They are equal to me in both case the 3rd movies were a let down.
Note : I prefer The Dark Knight over Spiderman 2 and Spiderman 1 over Batman Begins.

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Old 04-07-2013, 10:28 AM   #54
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Bruce Malone View Post
Honestly i feel this is the only place i ever hear that? To me critical and financial success equals curse broken.

Not to mention the film was very well received among the general audience. For some reason the fanboys (almost exclusively) have pounced on it, while if you talk to the average movie viewer most people thought the movie was enjoyable.

I know IMDB ratings are not the end all be all but i mean an 8.6 for TDKR vs a 6.3 for spider-man 3 says a lot about what the people think.
You are correct, sir.

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Old 04-07-2013, 11:24 AM   #55
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Bruce Malone View Post
Honestly i feel this is the only place i ever hear that? To me critical and financial success equals curse broken.

Not to mention the film was very well received among the general audience. For some reason the fanboys (almost exclusively) have pounced on it, while if you talk to the average movie viewer most people thought the movie was enjoyable.

I know IMDB ratings are not the end all be all but i mean an 8.6 for TDKR vs a 6.3 for spider-man 3 says a lot about what the people think.
Nolan did a better job than most, but I also don't consider the curse broken. TDKR is a big enough step down from the previous 2 for me to have problems.

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Old 04-07-2013, 01:43 PM   #56
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Which saga did you enjoy more?
I have to be honest in that I was never a fan of Spiderman. Though I liked the first film in the franchise, it didn't really blow me away. So I go with Nolan's Batman here.

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Which Director do you think was more effective for you?
Sam Raimi by a mile. He was able to get the balance right of a comic-style film with some wonderful action setpieces and character drama.

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Who had the superior leading man,
Tobey Maguire - I liked his honest, sympathetic portrayal of Spiderman.

Bale was doing his American Psycho schtick as Bruce Wayne with a smoker's cough Batman.

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and which villains gripped you more?
Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin was brilliant but the edge here goes to Nolan who delivered a memorable Joker and Bane.

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Did you dislike Mary Jane less than Rachel, more than Rachel, or did you want both characters to leap off of a cliff?
Rachel was worse by a mile. She had no character development whatsoever. She didn't feel like a real person at all.

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:59 PM   #57
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Bruce Malone View Post
Honestly i feel this is the only place i ever hear that? To me critical and financial success equals curse broken.

Not to mention the film was very well received among the general audience. For some reason the fanboys (almost exclusively) have pounced on it, while if you talk to the average movie viewer most people thought the movie was enjoyable.

I know IMDB ratings are not the end all be all but i mean an 8.6 for TDKR vs a 6.3 for spider-man 3 says a lot about what the people think.
When I said it didn't break the threequel curse, that doesn't mean I thought it wasn't enjoyable or even bad. I just think it was very flawed in certain respects and a step or two down from the previous movies. But please, by all means, continue to dismiss differing opinions as the ravings of lunatic fanboys.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #58
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Honestly i feel this is the only place i ever hear that? To me critical and financial success equals curse broken.
Boom, we have a winner. Also counting in the general audience's view of TDKR with the addition of critical and financial success, I wouldn't see why anyone would say the curse for CBMs isn't broken just because a few fanboys dislike or even hate TDKR. Spider-Man 3 only won the financial part, and didn't get the mass approval of the general audience and critical acclaim that TDKR received, and there are just complete failures all around like X-Men 3, Superman III, Blade: Trinity...and I just don't remember how much Batman Forever made or the critical reception that film received, but TDKR got all three with making over a billion dollars, having a 87% critics rating on RT and a 92% audience rating on the site as well. Plus, fairly credible ratings on metacritic that once again fits the film right between BB and TDK as as well being placed in numerous Top Ten lists including AFI(making Nolan the only director to have two CBMs in there).

Indeed, TDKR has broken the CBM curse. Took it a while to catch up with other genres that already broke that curse.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #59
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy is to date the only truly successful superhero trilogy. Raimi fumbled hard with the third entry in his series after the great Spider-Man 2.

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Old 04-07-2013, 10:40 PM   #60
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Soapy View Post
When I said it didn't break the threequel curse, that doesn't mean I thought it wasn't enjoyable or even bad. I just think it was very flawed in certain respects and a step or two down from the previous movies. But please, by all means, continue to dismiss differing opinions as the ravings of lunatic fanboys.
My point is that it's frankly a minority opinion that TDKR was a considerable "let-down". You have your views that's fine and valid but to proclaim a general statement like "the curse still isn't broken" despite all the evidence to the contrary is just incorrect in my view.

I'll reiterate when you have the trifecta of financial, critical, general audience approval i don't see how you can lump it in with the other "cursed" comic threequels" ?

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Old 04-07-2013, 10:45 PM   #61
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

We are looking at this from the perspective of comic book fans. Although the general public and critics liked it, comic book/Batman fans are just as divided on it as they were with Batman Returns. So to us, the curse still hasn't been broken. I will admit that it is a step up from the general third comic book movie but proportionally speaking, it is just as big of a drop in quality from the previous movies that something like Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 is a drop in quality from the previous movies IMO.

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Old 04-07-2013, 10:53 PM   #62
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

If it had a drop in quality it's mostly due to how supremely high quality TDK was, i mean for a comic book film and just a film in general.

In a movie series there is always going to be 1 film that really stands out and in the TDK trilogy it was the dark knight. I don't think that should be held as a slag against the other films that preceded or followed it.

Again to me the "threequel curse" has some very specific definitions and can apply to almost all the other third film failures. To me TDKR is much much closer to TDK or Spider-man 2 than it is to an X-Men 3, Superman 3, Batman Forever, Spider-man 3. It should not be remotely in the same category with those disappointments.

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Old 04-08-2013, 01:09 AM   #63
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
We are looking at this from the perspective of comic book fans. Although the general public and critics liked it, comic book/Batman fans are just as divided on it as they were with Batman Returns. So to us, the curse still hasn't been broken. I will admit that it is a step up from the general third comic book movie but proportionally speaking, it is just as big of a drop in quality from the previous movies that something like Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 is a drop in quality from the previous movies IMO.
You make it sound like:

To the very opinionated views of the comic book fan, TDKR didn't break the curse. But to everyone else, it did.

Alas, there are comic book fans that do view TDKR indeed broke the curse, though. I'm one of them.

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Old 04-08-2013, 06:34 AM   #64
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

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I'll reiterate when you have the trifecta of financial, critical, general audience approval i don't see how you can lump it in with the other "cursed" comic threequels" ?
By that arguement then Spider-man 3 already broke that curse long before TDKR came around. It's fresh on RT and more than half(a majority) of the GA liked it and it was the highest grosser WW of the series.

But I don't accept those terms at all. Whether the curse is broken is completely a subjective thing and each person will see it differently. As far as I am concerned it really doesn't matter if TDKR was a good movie so as to break the curse(though as far as I'm concerned it's not a good movie at all) since I regard TDK as one of the worst CBM's of all time and so a crappy entry negates the possibility of a complete trilogy of good movies. As far as I'm concerned the only good one is BB.

The main point is that no measurable success is real proof that a movie is actually good. That will always be up to the individual. Most like Nolan's trilogy and I accept that. Most of the GA likes Bay's TF trilogy as well.

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Old 04-08-2013, 07:14 AM   #65
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What makes TDKR a better film than Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 is the fact that the film has a much more streamlined feel to it. It never feels like it's being diverted by pointless, unrelated side plots and you can actually feel its approach towards a conclusion, plus, what side plots there were actually felt developed and had successfully completed their respective arcs. X3 had numerous side plots that either went nowhere or ended too abruptly, and Spider-Man 3 was just all over the map.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:09 AM   #66
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

The biggest problem with TDKR is it's done what no other super hero movie has done. It's retired the hero.

This is it's greatest triumph and it's biggest let down.

Comic books are never ending, this is something that spider-man 3 got right, it never felt like a conclusion.

A prime example to giving closure to a situation like this is in "JL: Unlimited" with the heroes letting the villains go etc and them giving them a count down to chase them etc.

In this sense, TDKR disappointed me, but however knowing Bruce's story is complete also relieved me. It didn't want me craving more (post this story, prequels etc something before TDK but after BB or in between TDK/TDKR I crave.)

Now with SM3, You have a very different approach, very formulaic movies, however there is some clear success behind this franchise for this reason.

It's let down is, how much does Peter really grow? He gets better at his powers etc, and at the end of spider-man 1, he realizes he is spiderman, than he realizes he may not want to be spider-man and needs to balance his life, and than I honestly dont know what you could argue the third one is about.

Bruce is all about finding who he is, than in the second, we see that he's matured into this being, this amazing person that the criminals fear etc, is completely on the ball with everything and anything. And than we see how he breaks, and what something like that can do to someone, and bam we find closure.

Spider-man we see him start coming into this, and possibly might have gotten in a third had there be no studio involvement (although I wonder how the studio made him make sandman the killer?).


Overall, I would rate

BB > SM1 (Although a tough one, because I do feel like SM1 was excellent for it's time, I don't feel this will age as well as BB. The reason I feel this way is because, I feel like "the amazing spiderman", tried differentiating itself, but because the way it is done this story, although 100% i agree its nice it totally relates to the comics, that when two movies are done the exact same way, the older is obviously more out dated, and I don't think you can do that for batman, or you have many more options with batman perhaps is the better statement.)

TDK = SM2 (I liked TDK better only because I like batman as a hero better, however I can't argue the fact it's a good spiderman story, and fits well with his character development, I feel like I shouldn't lower my viewing just because I don't like the character as much, without giving the actuality of the movie a fair shot.)

TDKR > SM3

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Old 04-22-2013, 04:20 PM   #67
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the tdk trilogy is better then sam's spider man films .

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Old 04-23-2013, 05:03 AM   #68
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Aside from Ledger's great performance, i think you can mount a reasonable argument for either

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Old 04-23-2013, 09:58 AM   #69
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

Story to the heart: Not talking cheese or seriousness, these don't have a big impact in this regard. I guess I'll give Batman the edge

Point goes to Nolan's Batman

Star Character and actor portrayal: Tobey Maguire was given the role of Ross Gellar from friends when he's out of costume, at he was funny as that. As Spider-Man he was solid
Bale's Batman voice is good for jokes and to make fun of, I get they're inspired by the comics when it comes to that, but it's hilarious. Good portrayal as either sides of the coin

CB wins, and point goes to Nolan's Batman

Love Interest: I like how Katy Holmes was portrayed, and think Maggie G. was a better cast, only thing I don't like about her in TDK is how she stopped wanting Bruce to be Batman and left him for Harvey, it came out of the blue
Dunst as MJ is at her best in Spider-Man 3, yeah she made her share of mistakes, but in the end she was a better character in the finale than she was before.
In SM2: Peter, you did not see my play, F-U, jerk. And I can't keep thinking about when Peter offered her burgers in the first movie after she told him she was dating Harry and before breaking up with him, and the MTV series showed her giving Peter another chance with a smile after he missed her play the first time, and in that show she actually told Peter to come
In SM1 she was a s***, easy, jumping from one guy to another like that, why'd she even accept Harry

3 points for Nolan's Batman, to nothing for Raimi's Spider-Man

Supporting Cast: I'll give it a tie and pass it over. No points given

Villains: I'll only compare Green Goblin to The Joker, they had the same view, same speech, very similar motives. In manner of speaking Joker belongs to a movie, GG belongs to an 80s cartoon

4 - 0 in favor of Nolan's Batman

Action: Spider-Man, by far. Of course with Batman being grounded and not allowed to jump as much it shouldn't be fair to compare, each belong to their own category when it comes to skill sets, but I'll give dues for the Final Swing scenes

4 - 1, only one point for Raimi's Spidey trilogy

Costumes: Batman

5 - 1 in favor of Nolan films

Supporting Hero turning evil having a speech delivered to him by the villain he was chasing after: Or giving up to the dark side growing in him as some would say. I still don't like this part of the Dark Knight, at least don't like Harvey listening to Joker, not cause it's unrealistic, it could happen, but I easily like Eddie Bock turning evil, it was a more enjoyable transition

I love both series, don't look down to any movie of the bunch, even with the very obvious problems in Spider-Man 3, and how disgustingly childish when it comes to Peter missing her play once then horribly acting like the untrustworthy p.o.s they wrote her to be in that film leaving her groom hanging at the altar Mary Jane is in Spider-Man 2

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Old 04-23-2013, 02:07 PM   #70
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I'm going to have to go with Spider-Man, although I was let down by both franchises, as far as trilogies go. Spidey's third outing was the only misstep for that respective franchise, but I still find it entertaining on some level(at least up to the first hour or so), whereas TDKR is a chore for me to watch again.

I consider the first two films in both franchises to be good movies, but entertainment value is where they diverge for me; I just found Nolan's interpretation of the character to be hopelessly boring. I actually liked TDK the first time I watched it, so much so that I bought it on Blu-Ray(not to mention winning a costume contest as the Joker). With subsequent viewings; however, I've found that the entertainment value of the movie drops right off a cliff. Truthfully, when I watch it these days I can only stomach Ledger's scenes, and a few of Eckhart's. A well made film, the editing was solid, enjoyed the cinematography, but outside of Ledger's performance, everything else just bores me to tears. Nolan also can't direct a fight sequence to save his life.

Backpedalling to BB, I thought it lost traction after Bruce returned to Gotham. The portion of the film leading up to this was very well done; I really found myself rooting for Bruce as he went through his trials, but afterwards, I found the plot boring and uninspired for the remainder of the film. Terrible villain(s) as well. I think Scarecrow had potential, but I feel that he was actually underutilized and undeveloped. Ras coming back at the end was a poor choice IMO as well, seemed more like a "gotcha" for the audience rather than a well though out twist; the rest of the movie didn't even build up to it particularly well. Regardless, I can't say that I hate either of these movies. Nolan is a slick filmmaker(easily one of my contemporary faves); the guy hardly makes mistakes(TDKR being the noteworthy exception), but I can't give them my recommendation due them not being able to hold my interest.

WRT Spider-Man's first two outing, these films simply got a lot of things right IMO. For one, they've always managed to hold my interest due to how richly entertaining they are. Also, the pacing of both of these movies is about as good as it gets for the genre; they've always kept me on the edge of my seat when the tempo is high or invested in the characters and plot when the drama takes center stage. For the most part, the light-hearted humor is well done, the exception being when Raimi takes Peter's rotten luck a bit too far, i.e. the whole world stepping on his books, the closet/pizza delivery scene, never picking up a drink at the part, etc.

I also found that the characters are much better developed than in the corresponding Bat films. Peter's growth as a character was phenomenal in the first two films. Raimi, Maguire, and the writers all did an admirable job conveying Peter's progression through his adventures, relationships, professional life, and personal life. Bruce, by contrast, didn't seem to have as much conflict juggling the various aspects of his life. As for the female lead, this is where Spider-Man runs away with it for me. Of all the unpopular opinions I have regarding this whole topic, I'm sure this will take the cake for some, but here goes. Mary Jane's character was very well developed, arguably about as much as Peter was. From her professional struggles, to the men in her life, the family problems, and everything in between, the character was given a fairly large amount of care and attention IMO. I haven't always felt this way, but I have to admit that this was exclusively due to my disdain for her portrayal not being the Mary Jane I wanted: the sultry, fun-loving bombshell that I was familiar with. Realizing that Raimi's MJ was mostly of his own design, I have to judge the character on what she was intended to be, and in that respect I think that she was handled quite well, barring the overused damsel in distress plot device, of course.

There's more to it of course, but I'm about out of time; maybe I'll revisit this later with some more points, but the tl;dr of it is that I found the Spider-Man movies more entertaining on every level, the characters were more engaging, and the action is head and shoulders above the TDK trilogy.

Neither franchise has been what I'd call ideal, however. I'd say that the best trilogy I've seen in recent years is Bourne, and by a very far cry. I'd love to see a CBM franchise deliver the goods as these movies have. These films kept getting better and better, upping the ante in each entry without managing to get redundant, self-indulgent, pretentious, ostentatious, or any other objection I had with either Raimi or Nolan's franchises.

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Old 04-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #71
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Even if one prefers the Spider-Man character, the three Batman movies were much more consistent and satisfying.

The first Spider-Man film was okay (even back in 2002 the popularity of that film eluded me), but Spider-Man 2 was and is still amazing (still better than that reboot we got last year). Just excellent all around. The third film falls into okay territory, and you could tell Sony was calling the shots on the secondary characters. You could tell Raimi was being yanked between Avi Arad's orders (Venom, Peter acting like a douche) and wanting to tell his own story. I enjoy big chunks of SM-3, but I can't watch the whole film through anymore. Had SM-3 been as good or enjoyable as the second one, it'd be a tie between the Raimi Spider-man trilogy and Nolan's Batman films.

As for TDKR, I really don't see the hate it gets. Sure, the villains weren't as good but the movie was a satisfying end. I felt satisfaction at TDKR's ending, whereas SM-3's ending left me unmoved. It's sad, really, that Raimi's Spider-man trilogy made so much money for Sony and Marvel -- and yet Avi Arad wouldn't give Raimi creative leeway to finish the series the way he wanted. Nolan had no such problems with TDKR.

And as for Mary Jane vs. Rachel thing, I preferred the Mary Jane over the course of the first two Spider-Man films over Rachel. But SM-3's Mary Jane irritated me more than Rachel.

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Old 04-23-2013, 04:23 PM   #72
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If Mary Jane and Rachel Dawes ever had a cage match...I'd say they both should just lose.

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Old 04-23-2013, 04:42 PM   #73
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Rachel in BB at least felt like a caring surrogate sister

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Old 04-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #74
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Rachel Dawes was at least proactive. MJ was just around to be saved by Peter every 5 seconds.

A surprisingly weak female character, especially given Raimi's track record...


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Old 04-25-2013, 04:01 PM   #75
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Default Re: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy

Raimi's Spider-Man. 2 out fo 3 is better than 2/3 of 3.

Begins and TDK are very boring and filled with plot holes and nonsense that i don't even care to watch the third movie.

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