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#626 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Of course he was. Everything needs a start. And I agree: The special relationship was something they invented in the 70s. But it works so damn well.
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#627 | ||||
The Clown Prince of Crime
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That is exactly what I'm talking about. Joker's been wanting to keep Batman around for fun since the 70's. See the infamous 'The Laughing Fish' story for example.
Or I can show you come scans if you want. I always have the proof to back these things up. Quote:
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker Last edited by The Joker; 04-07-2013 at 03:03 PM. |
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#628 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Here I'll post them anyway, especially for OutRiddled. I'll even be nice and give you two examples for variety. One from the 70's and one from the 80's:
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#629 | |||||
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#630 | |||||
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
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1. He was among one of the most prominent villains, especially after the 60's TV show utilized him three times and catapulted his status, just like with the Riddler. 2. Before the 60's show he only had like two appearances. After it he had many appearances. Quote:
It was a retcon in terms that suddenly Joker had a girlfriend and a hench wench. Anyone not familiar with BTAS wouldn't have a clue who she is or what her story was. They didn't reveal it until a year or so after she appeared in a spin off story called 'Harley Quinn'.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker Last edited by The Joker; 04-07-2013 at 03:28 PM. |
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#631 |
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Yesss. That's MY kind of The Joker. Though I was a bit disappointed by TDKs view on Mr J the battle of wits was one of the things they got right in this movie.
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#632 | ||
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2011
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http://www.comicvine.com/mr-freeze/4.../issues-cover/ Quote:
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#633 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
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You were the one just arguing everything had to make sense and no loose ends could be left for a stand alone movie. I'm not even saying it's a "bad" thing that we didn't get more insight into Batman's origins, I'm just illustrating a point that the movie didn't become some "Prometheus" type movie because it left things unanswered, like you were trying to imply keeping the murder of Bruce's parents unresolved would have done. Funny how you pick and choose what's acceptable to be kept mysterious and what needs to be spelled out for us when it comes to Batman 89.
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#634 | ||
The Clown Prince of Crime
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#635 |
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I have to agree. As far as I know The Joker had his big comeback in the 70s. And this was the time "the battle of wists" was invented. In the 60s he was just a harmless prank. He became big in the 70s. And the Joker of the 70s and 80s is still my favorite interpretation of the character. I hate what he became nowadays (especially the Leatherface look).
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#636 | ||
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#637 |
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It was some kind of a retcon. A gangster called The Red Hood or a harmless comedian who had to wear the red hood because of some unfortunate circumstances is a difference. I prefer TKJ's origin, though. And I love Joker's line about his past as "multiple choice". A Joker WITHOUT a certain origin is so much more intimidating IMHO.
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#638 | |
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#639 | ||
The Clown Prince of Crime
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker Last edited by The Joker; 04-07-2013 at 04:55 PM. |
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#640 |
All Mighty
Join Date: Feb 2011
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One thing that is certain though is that Red Hood existed and was a big thing back in Batman's first year, which is why i'm disapointed there hasn't been made a story for that point of time in Batman's perspective (this way Joker's involvement remains unclear) yet.
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#641 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2010
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It was established that the Red Hood was an alias used by multiple people.
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#642 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jul 2012
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I don't even know where this discussion is heading right now. Look it was 1989. The landscape of the superhero film genre was vastly different than it is now. They were never going to give us a panel for panel re-telling of the Batman mythos. It was never their intent to bring the Batman comic to life on the big screen. It was about making a movie. And not just a movie comic geeks could salivate over, but something everyone could enjoy.
Personally I think he did a damn fine job. Gotham looked fantastical like it did in the comics and yet the world he created was still modern enough and real enough so as to bring Batman up to date. People laugh at the Prince music but it was little touches like that which made the movie resonate with the modern audience. A nice blend of fantasy and reality, as if to say "in a world not so unlike out own". That image of Joker smiling maniacally as he showers the crowd with money is about as pitch perfect as you could get. |
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#643 |
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Most of them all took the plunge into the vat of chemicals though. Well, until recently. I'm also pretty sure the Killing Joke origin of him with his pregnant wife is true with the flashback. Other people in the story like Batman and Gordon don't know that though of course, only the Joker. Hence his great "multiple choice" line to Batman. I do think he was originally that comedian that was forced into the heist who lost his wife and child and had his skin bleached in a vat of chemicals.
Everything changes with the times though. Hell, Joker doesn't even have his face attached naturally any more! And also, not every version of the Joker wants to keep Batman alive. Even the ones that do change it up and change their mind. Hell, look at the great Animated Series Joker? Nothing would please him more than giving Batman a cyanide/acid pie to the face. There are plenty of Jokers that want to kill him one day, then keep him alive the next. Part of that is so that they can continue to have an infinite amount of stories for the comics. It wouldn't surprise me if the TDK Joker just woke up one day and said, "ya know what, I wanna kill Batman". Hell, he wanted to as much before the interrogation. He's supposed to be unpredictable after all, a wild card. Nothing he does or says should make sense really, only to him. It just depends on who's writing him. That actually applies to all this stuff. No body here is really wrong. I think the only Joker that doesn't really do anything for me is the barefoot, "The Batman" Joker with the dreadlocks. Weird stuff. Last edited by milost; 04-07-2013 at 07:56 PM. |
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#644 | |
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#645 |
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Yes there is, the fact that we see page after page of a pre-dip Joker struggling as a no named Joe, whether that's intended to be a real flashback or imagine. That's entirely up to the viewer. There are like 10 pages showing what happened to him, and just one little panel that suggests that it varies from time to time. Let's remember, he also states that line to Batman. The Joker is a liar. One minute the character thinks this way, the next another. So who knows. The Joker wouldn't tell Batman the truth, why would he? It'd make him vulnerable.
I think (I think) the whole flashback after he's looking all sad in his reflection at the carnival is true. He had a pregnant wife, he was a ****** comedian, some guys tricked him into the Red Hood gig, he ran into Batman, and fell into the chemicals. All the events of that day/week drove him mad. Didn't Alan Moore even say that's what he intended? Those that think it's true aren't interpreting it wrong and vice versa. That was his "bad day". The day he tried to give to Gordon. The day Batman had when he was a child. Of course, the Joker being as crazy as he is might have put that in the back of his head and forgot who he really is. Or maybe he wants to try and impress Batman with his insanity like "HEY MAN, LOOK HOW CRAZY I AM, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT I WAS BEFORE THIS". Who knows. Point is, there's nothing definitive from story to story. Writers write what they want and fans interpret it how they will. The Joker is Jack Napier, the mob hood that's dropped into a vat of chemicals by Batman. The Joker was the Red Hood, he was dropped into the chemicals by Batman. The Joker was a guy that suffered from a persona trauma from his scarring and was inspired by Batman. The Joker has an origin story. The Joker doesn't have an origin story. The Joker has bleached skin. The Joker puts on make up. All these things above are true. With thousands of stories out there written by all sorts of different creative minds, nothing is definitive. That's it really, origin or not. If I'm going to have a favorite Joker interpretation, I prefer it to be multiple choice. Whether his origin is real or made up, whether he's bleached or puts on make up. Last edited by milost; 04-07-2013 at 09:01 PM. |
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#646 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Exactly. The most recent origin he got in Batman Confidential a few years ago had him as a professional unbalanced criminal (not a gangster), and it didn't even feature the Red Hood part. Just the same common denominator; the chemical bath.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker Last edited by The Joker; 04-07-2013 at 09:38 PM. |
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#647 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2009
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A pretty interesting nicholson joker impression
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#648 |
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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What did I just watch?
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#649 | |
All Mighty
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 15,505
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Let me repeat myself, Batman's earliest years of crime fighting have almost completelly been covered, however his time fighting the Red Hood criminal, AKA, Red Hood Gang was only featured in fast flashbacks, we never got a complete story in Batman's persepective of the Red Hood case in Year One, then again i have stoped reading Batman comics so i don't know if the recent storyline has covered it already. |
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#650 | |
4AF
Join Date: Dec 2012
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