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View Poll Results: Who made the better Catwoman?
Michelle Pfeiffer 65 37.57%
Anne Hathaway 108 62.43%
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #551
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Only my view is not right, there are plenty of well formed legitimate opinions that conflict with my own, but I can't understand what movies you were watching if you say Pfieffer's Catwoman was no better written than Berry's.

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Old 04-03-2013, 08:41 PM   #552
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Tom Hardy's claim to fame is the box office failure Star Trek Nememis.


Um everyone I know of who knows Hardy knows him better from Bronson, Warrior, and Inception than Star Trek Nemesis.

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Old 04-04-2013, 06:52 AM   #553
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Anne, and it's not even close.

What did Pfeiffer do to earn any sort of acclaim for her casting? Grease 2?

Anne brought an air of class and sophistication to her role, slipping into multiple aspects of her personality subtly with textured perfection. Nothing about MP showed anywhere close to this level of control and effective execution, she was literally no better written or performed than Halle Berry!

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Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 AM   #554
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I agree with Jack there.

I love Michelle Pfeiffer's Selina Kyle/Catwoman and always be hottest Catwoman not saying Anne Hathaway wasn't great nor hot but I prefer Michelle's interpretation of the character but I don't like her storyline especially when she's killed by her boss then brought to life by cats... great thinking there.

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Old 04-04-2013, 12:11 PM   #555
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I was open-minded to Anne Hathaway as Catwoman, even though I wasn't a fan of her. But I just couldn't stand her portrayal for many reasons.

For one, there wasn't enough of a villainous aspect to her. I did not like how quickly she teamed up with Batman. And all the ambiguity was undone when she ends up with Bruce Wayne at the end.

Secondly, I do not like Anne Hathaway's acting.

Thirdly, Nolan's bone dry literalism killed the more appealing, fantasy aspects of the character.

Lastly, she missed out on a few vital qualities. The villainous aspect I already mentioned. The cat motif is largely gone. The sexuality - that aggressiveness combined with playfulness - never really stood out. The chemistry was lacking.

At least I gave her a chance. But she's about equal with Halle Berry and Eartha Kitt for me.

Hell, I liked Tori Black better


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Old 04-07-2013, 08:51 PM   #556
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I think that Burton made Burton's Catwoman. Where Nolan crafted an interpretation of the comics; a complex criminal/anti-hero. Where Burton's was a crazy cat lady who suddenly attained amazing gymnastic prowess. Doesn't really make sense. But it was the 90s. America embraced Limp Bizkit more than Oasis.

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Old 04-08-2013, 01:03 AM   #557
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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I think that Burton made Burton's Catwoman. Where Nolan crafted an interpretation of the comics; a complex criminal/anti-hero.
Nolan made Nolan's Catwoman. He wasn't any more or less faithful to the comics than Burton was.

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Where Burton's was a crazy cat lady who suddenly attained amazing gymnastic prowess. Doesn't really make sense.
You assume that, but she could've been training in her spare time. It is not necessary for the film to explain everything in needless exposition. Just like how it wasn't necessary to explain where Hathaway's Catwoman got her fighting skills from.

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Old 04-08-2013, 07:48 AM   #558
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

If we're to believe that bumbling mousy secretary Selina Kyle could climb buildings, do back flips, kick ass and be a master with a whip the way she did as Catwoman before she became Catwoman, then she would have kicked that clown's ass who took her hostage instead of acting like a screaming helpless damsel in distress.

Hathaway's Catwoman had a history of being a street smart criminal and cat burglar. Someone from that sort of background doesn't need any explanation on how they became an efficient fighter.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:17 AM   #559
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I think we got enough info on Hathaway's Catwoman...

She's been at this a while and picked up a few skills on her way. All the while the ground was ''shrinking beneath her feet''.

That's more than enough for me. Just enough to comfortably throw her into the present story.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:25 AM   #560
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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If we're to believe that bumbling mousy secretary Selina Kyle could climb buildings, do back flips, kick ass and be a master with a whip the way she did as Catwoman before she became Catwoman, then she would have kicked that clown's ass who took her hostage instead of acting like a screaming helpless damsel in distress.

Hathaway's Catwoman had a history of being a street smart criminal and cat burglar. Someone from that sort of background doesn't need any explanation on how they became an efficient fighter.
Bingo. Consistency is the key word here, folks. Hathaway started out bad ass and trained and stayed that way. Pfeiffer didn't.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:26 AM   #561
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Not sure that "consistency" is inherently a good thing in a character arc.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:30 AM   #562
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Not sure that "consistency" is inherently a good thing in a character arc.
Hathaway's badassery is not an arc.
Her arc is that she starts out only looking out for herself and ends up risking her life to save an entire city.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:32 AM   #563
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Bingo. Consistency is the key word here, folks. Hathaway started out bad ass and trained and stayed that way. Pfeiffer didn't.
Pfeiffer starred in a German Expressionistic fairy tale...

Hathaway starred in a naturalistic crime/war film...

Consistency isn't exactly a fair argument here. They are what they are. Burton never wanted realism... just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:34 AM   #564
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Alright, but the statement that 'consistency is the key' seems to exclude the possibility of development and change being equally as interesting. Hathaway's Selina doesn't really warrant the latter, because it is a fairly marginal role, but I think it is wrong to imply that this is necessarily a strength per se.

Edit: P-P got in first!

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:37 AM   #565
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Pfeiffer's Catwoman is the most unrealistic character out of Burton's two Batman movies. From surviving all the falls and gun shots she sustains with no apparent injury. Not so much as a broken arm or a sprained ankle to show for them, to her miraculous new fighting and whip skills she seemingly gets over night.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:39 AM   #566
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Dare I say Michelle's Catwoman was Finger/Kane version and Anne's was more like Frank Miller/Jeph Leob a little modern Catwoman.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:41 AM   #567
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Yes... because somehow being raised by penguins is somehow more logical.

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Old 04-08-2013, 09:44 AM   #568
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Yes... because somehow being raised by penguins is somehow more logical.
He wasn't raised by them. He was found and rescued by them. He grew up in the Red Triangle circus as one of their freak show attractions.

"A poodle lady, the world's fattest man, and an aquatic bird boy".

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #569
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Pfeiffer Catwoman didn't climb buildings too well. We see her scrambling and struggling several times. Doesn't Batman even help her before she falls at one point? I can buy that Selina had gymnastics or something when she was younger. Maybe her overbearing mother (the one we heard on the phone) made her take up self defense lessons in a city as bad as Gotham.

There's a lot of insecurity in Selina and she wasn't a violent person before the event. There's a darkness and cleverness there still though, before she's pushed too far (figuratively and literally). Like when she shocks the thug freak, talks back to the answering machine, realizes how helpless she is, etc. Maybe she had this potential but buried it because of all of her insecurities and what's "proper". Look what happened when she spoke up with some suggestions, she was shot down. It took the trauma to open her up a bit.



The only problem I have with the Pfeiffer Catwoman is the bullets she's able to take from Shreck. Yeah, he might be missing a few shots and she does get clipped in the legs and arms. But still, a bullet is a bullet. You can't really eat them without armor unless you're drugged up.





For TDKR Catwoman, I have no problem buying that she can do back flips either. Or even jumping out of a three story building with no problems. I don't think "because she lived in bad times and did what she has to" means she had gymnastics or training though.



Maybe she and the Returns Selina had kick boxing and gymnastics training at Gotham Arts when they were little girls/teenagers? Who the hell knows? It's not important to either story.


They don't need to explain either one of them. Do we really need to see a scene in Batman Returns or The Dark Knight Rises where we get exposition or a flashback where they're learning how to do a couple of flips? That'd be ridiculous.

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Old 04-08-2013, 07:37 PM   #570
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I never envisioned Catwoman as a psycho head case...and that's what Pfeiffer's Selina/Catwoman was.

Anne's was more true to the character, walking that thin line between criminal/hero and even having conflicts of interests...even second guessing decisions she's made.

Pfeiffer never toed any line, she was all-criminal, no depth as far as decisions she makes...if anything she came across as someone with a split personality to me.

It's not really the actresses, but how the characters were written, I do believe Anne Hathaway is a better actress than Michelle Pfeiffer.

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Old 04-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #571
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Her arc is that she starts out only looking out for herself and ends up risking her life to save an entire city.
Exactly. The moment she is given the batpod she has a choice to make.

The only thing that hints to any form of physicality prior to BR Selina’s fall is “guess I should've let him win that last racquetball game.” I’m not convinced she had these back-flipping skills, wall-climbing skills already and simply held them back. But hey, I guess in the movie it’s all about presenting two stark personas, before and after. She was underpowered and now she isn't.

BR’s Selina was a genuine damsel in distress and became the opposite with skills somehow mastered overnight.
TDKR’s Selina pretended to be a damsel in distress and was a street smart thief from a young age.

Different aims and all that jazz, but with Hathaway’s Selina we definitely have enough information and timeframe on fighting skill development.

Personally, I prefer the walk the fine line, mood feigning "I'm adaptable" angle over the more concrete persona change. Because of this I think Hathaway’s Selina has a better chance of deceiving opponents, and even seducing them ala the old guy at the masquerade ball. To me that’s an important facet. In BR Bruce invites Selina back to Wayne Manor when they meet at the plaza, but it’s apparent she’s not all there and can't easily snap out of it. That appealed to Bruce, but it wouldn’t appeal to everyone. Just my two cents.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:23 PM   #572
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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Pfeiffer's Catwoman is the most unrealistic character out of Burton's two Batman movies. From surviving all the falls and gun shots she sustains with no apparent injury. Not so much as a broken arm or a sprained ankle to show for them, to her miraculous new fighting and whip skills she seemingly gets over night.
Yeah, I wish I could combine the comic faith of Nolan's Catwoman with the Bruce-Batman/Selina-Catwoman relationship of Burton.

Yes, I will do this with Windows Movie Maker, and it will probably suck.

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Old 04-09-2013, 08:23 AM   #573
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

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I do believe Anne Hathaway is a better actress than Michelle Pfeiffer.
I don't think that really stands up to scrutiny, but whatever.

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:19 AM   #574
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

I think both are very good actresses. Who one prefers is only a matter of taste. Michelle herself on Anne:

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"Oh, I think she's great. I'm actually very much looking forward to seeing her in the role. I'm a big fan of hers and I think she has everything you need for that role. She has the humour, she can go to dark places, she's obviously very talented. I think she's going to be really good."
And she was right

Also, having just watched Les Miserables a week ago, Anne definitely deserved her Oscar. Acting wise the "I Dreamed a Dream" scene gives off the same level of heartbreaking despair as Michelle's post-revival freakout scene in her apartment, and she does it while singing.

And having just watched Batman Returns a few days ago, Michelle Pfeiffer's performance really is incredible and shouldn't be taken for granted.

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Old 04-09-2013, 11:43 AM   #575
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

They're both some of the best performances in any comic book films.

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