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Old 04-07-2013, 09:38 PM   #101
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

If Bruce can make a leg brace that robotically rehabilitates his leg, why not reinforce all of your joints with that tech?

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:25 PM   #102
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Everything that Nolan presented and said in his Batmovies are what he said goes in his universe. Same goes for Burton/Schumacher. Same goes for yourself if you made a film. All or most versions have the same connecting themes or events Not just what the comics (because even they change,get retconned by other writers,artists and dc themselves) said, btas (thats someone elses take too), fans (their take) said,whatever etc if you said this and that can't happen then thats your problem or view.(that only makes it right for your version not someone elses otherwise they would of said what you said in their version) That's the truth. In the end some director might come along or already have and present the version you have in you head on screen. In the end you or I are going to be watching the films in our house viewing them with our opinions. It doesn't matter if millions of people don't agree or what stupid rotton tomatoes says or critics, (because everybodys a critic) as long as you love and enjoy it.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:55 PM   #103
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Im going to get some flack for this, but the big change (besides the 8 year break/leaving at the end of TDKR) I wouldve done was kept Two-Face alive for at least TDKR. This isn't cause "hurr durr he has to live cause of comic reasons," but I think the whole "how far will Gordon and Batman go to hide the truth" and Harvey appearing to bring Gotham into chaos wouldve been way much more heavier and interesting in the third movie than Bane reading a note.

Also, this is ironic cause I went into TDKR thinking Id love everything and hate Bane, when in reality it ended up being the opposite for me- but I really wish we wouldve gotten just a Bane movie. I thought that character was so great, and to see him just shot away at the end so we could focus on a "what a twist" was so piss poor.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:57 PM   #104
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Harvey appearing to bring Gotham into chaos wouldve been way much more heavier and interesting in the third movie than Bane reading a note.
Seconded. Also more interesting than another destroy the city with a doomsday device, too.

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Old 04-08-2013, 11:05 PM   #105
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Yeah, I feel as if that wouldve kept the more emotional intensity at the end as opposed to the more "action" oriented one (If we're counting an 80 second fight between Bane and Batman as action). That's probably what I love most about TDK- the climax is really just 3 guys yelling at each other, but it's so emotional and heavy- probably the first time in a comic book movie that I felt just pure terror and dread for what I was seeing.

To be fair to Nolan, I dont know how anyone wouldve really finished Harvey if he was in TDKR (cant really do another Gordon/Batman/Two-Face fight without seeming like TDK Rehash). So I can see why Nolan might have said all that he wanted to say in TDK, but for the rest of the movie, I felt like it wouldve been stronger had he been brought back.

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Old 04-08-2013, 11:23 PM   #106
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Interesting, but I was always fine with Dent dying myself, although, it is still an interesting thought of Dent creating the chaos and shall I say, madness.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:04 AM   #107
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

I still think the Dent cover up, if handled better, could have been the equivalent of Two-Face being the main villain in TDKR.

All we needed was the montage from Bane's speech at Blackgate being the focus point for Gotham in the second act, instead of "which truck is the bomb on?".

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:16 AM   #108
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Also, this is ironic cause I went into TDKR thinking Id love everything and hate Bane, when in reality it ended up being the opposite for me- but I really wish we wouldve gotten just a Bane movie. I thought that character was so great, and to see him just shot away at the end so we could focus on a "what a twist" was so piss poor.
Yeah, the Talia twist was cheap all around. I like Marion Cotillard, but her character was pointless in this film. Her best moment was when Catwoman rescued Wayne and Lucius from Bane's thugs... she gives Catwoman this really angry cold look.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:19 AM   #109
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Yeeeahhh.....if there was no 8 year gap, and Two-Face just re-emerged alive not too long after Batman taking the blame, I could safely say that bizarro world TDKR would have raped the TDK ending for me. Then again, the actual movie did that for a lot of people. Go figure. Guess we all had different ideas about where the story should go.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:20 AM   #110
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Talia needed to be revealed a lot sooner. You can't bring back Ra's and the LOS and not have Talia involved somehow. It would have been nice just to see one scene with Bane and Talia commanding the troops, just to see how they conduct business together would have been nice.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:23 AM   #111
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Harvey being alive would've made much more sense. I love the scene where Bane reads Gordon's letter to the people of Gotham but it has one big problem: What evidence does Bane have that what he is saying is true? He has none. Why would anyone believe the terrorist with the atom bomb?

The only way that scene would've made sense was if Bane pulled out an alive Harvey Dent out of Blackgate and showed his true colors to the people of Gotham or if he had Gordon captive and made him admit everything.

Also, I still haven't forgotten about certain responses I have to reply to here. I just haven't had the time or energy to write any long posts.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:24 AM   #112
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

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Harvey being alive would've made much more sense. I love the scene where Bane reads Gordon's letter to the people of Gotham but it has one big problem: What evidence does Bane have that what he is saying is true? He has none. Why would anyone believe the terrorist with the atom bomb?

The only way that scene would've made sense was if Bane pulled out an alive Harvey Dent out of Blackgate and showed his true colors to the people of Gotham or if he had Gordon captive and made him admit everything.
I completely disagree. I think in the court of public opinion you tend to be guilty until proven innocent. That is to say, people tend to be willing to believe things if they're bad, especially when it comes to saint-like politicians. We're conditioned to buy into scandals.

The people who joined Bane's revolution were ready to revolt regardless (a small overall fraction of Gotham's population, many of them the freed prisoners). Bane was sealing the deal with the speech. You don't know that EVERYbody in Gotham believed what he said. I think most of Gotham didn't know what to think and were just trying to stay safe.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:27 AM   #113
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

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Harvey being alive would've made much more sense. I love the scene where Bane reads Gordon's letter to the people of Gotham but it has one big problem: What evidence does Bane have that what he is saying is true? He has none. Why would anyone believe the terrorist with the atom bomb?

The only way that scene would've made sense was if Bane pulled out an alive Harvey Dent out of Blackgate and showed his true colors to the people of Gotham or if he had Gordon captive and made him admit everything.

Also, I still haven't forgotten about certain responses I have to reply to here. I just haven't had the time or energy to write any long posts.
I definitely agree about the ordinary citizens having doubt about the Dent cover up, but the whole focus is on the Blackgate prisoners. They don't care if what Bane is saying is true or not, they just want to be released and cut loose.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:28 AM   #114
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I completely disagree. I think in the court of public opinion you tend to be guilty until proven innocent. That is to say, people tend to be willing to believe things if they're bad, especially when it comes to saint-like politicians. We're conditioned to buy into scandals.

The people who joined Bane's revolution were ready to revolt regardless (a small overall fraction of Gotham's population). Bane was sealing the deal with the speech. You don't know that EVERYbody in Gotham believed what he said. I think most of Gotham didn't know what to think and were just trying to stay safe.
Yep, you said it before I did.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:28 AM   #115
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

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Talia needed to be revealed a lot sooner. You can't bring back Ra's and the LOS and not have Talia involved somehow. It would have been nice just to see one scene with Bane and Talia commanding the troops, just to see how they conduct business together would have been nice.
Rumor has it that the reveal took place a lot earlier in the movie and that Talia had more screen time but a lot of the scenes with her at the end are cut out due to time restrictions, giving Talia less screen time overall and making the reveal seem like it takes place later than it originally did.

That's just a rumor though.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:32 AM   #116
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Rumor has it that the reveal took place a lot earlier in the movie and that Talia had more screen time but a lot of the scenes with her at the end are cut out due to time restrictions, giving Talia less screen time overall and making the reveal seem like it takes place later than it originally did.

That's just a rumor though.
We'll never know now, as Nolan always defiantly denies the existence of deleted scenes even when we know for a fact that they exist

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:47 AM   #117
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I definitely agree about the ordinary citizens having doubt about the Dent cover up, but the whole focus is on the Blackgate prisoners. They don't care if what Bane is saying is true or not, they just want to be released and cut loose.
Bane is addressing everyone in Gotham in that scene. Plus, the whole scene plays out like it is the moment when the truth is revealed to the people of Gotham - to both criminals and ordinary citizens.

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I completely disagree. I think in the court of public opinion you tend to be guilty until proven innocent. That is to say, people tend to be willing to believe things if they're bad, especially when it comes to saint-like politicians. We're conditioned to buy into scandals.

The people who joined Bane's revolution were ready to revolt regardless (a small overall fraction of Gotham's population, many of them the freed prisoners). Bane was sealing the deal with the speech. You don't know that EVERYbody in Gotham believed what he said. I think most of Gotham didn't know what to think and were just trying to stay safe.
I can buy that in a usual court situation. I'm not sure I can buy that in this particular situation. You have a terrorist that just reads a letter he pulls out of his pocket and everyone just believes him? It isn't so much that Bane just reveals the truth, but that he also presents the letter as solid evidence of the cover-up which is how he justifies breaking everyone out of Blackgate to the people of Gotham.

As for who and who didn't join Bane's revolution and what Gotham was thinking, that is something I want to talk about in more detail when I have the time for a longer post.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:48 AM   #118
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We'll never know now, as Nolan always defiantly denies the existence of deleted scenes even when we know for a fact that they exist
Yep. Nolan is pretty much the complete opposite of George Lucas in that department. You cannot get any more of a polar opposite than that .

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:01 AM   #119
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I can buy that in a usual court situation. I'm not sure I can buy that in this particular situation. You have a terrorist that just reads a letter he pulls out of his pocket and everyone just believes him? It isn't so much that Bane just reveals the truth, but that he also presents the letter as solid evidence of the cover-up which is how he justifies breaking everyone out of Blackgate to the people of Gotham.
I'm saying it's the type of thing that people who want to believe it would believe. Just take a look around at all the conspiracy theorists there are in the world. Some revolutionary coming out and exposing a martyred politician as murderer is like brain-candy for certain types of people. I'm saying it would have had the same effect even if Bane was just flat out telling lies about Dent, or smearing his name in other ways (in some alternate reality where he stayed the white knight).

Yeah, it's somewhat of a stretch mostly because Bane seems like this horrific monster that wouldn't have anyone in Gotham's best interest at heart, but at the same time in their minds if he was there to blow them all away he could've just done that to begin with. At the end of the day he's just telling the disenfranchised that now is their time to step up and he's protecting them from the outside world so they can do what they want. He knows he's not going to appeal to ALL of Gotham.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:09 AM   #120
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We'll never know now, as Nolan always defiantly denies the existence of deleted scenes even when we know for a fact that they exist
Yep. Even the costume designer in the GQ article said Bane had extra scenes regarding his origin, which Nolan also denies.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:11 AM   #121
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Yeah, as much as I disliked how they handled "BEHOLD THIS LETTER THAT REVEALS ALL CONFLICTS IN THE TRILOGY," BatLobsterRises is right- they only really showed Blackgate getting mad. JGL wasn't pleased, but you didn't see him shooting Gordon after hearing the news.

I mean, if cops and the military were throwing their badges down because of Bane's speech, then Id be "what?"

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:14 AM   #122
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Yeah, as much as I disliked how they handled "BEHOLD THIS LETTER THAT REVEALS ALL CONFLICTS IN THE TRILOGY," BatLobsterRises is right- they only really showed Blackgate getting mad.

I mean, if cops and the military were throwing their badges down because of Bane's speech, then Id be "what?"
I agree, the city didn't seem upset. In fact, the only person that was upset was Blake and even he didn't ask enough questions. He and Gordon's dialogue were just a bunch of metaphors.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:16 AM   #123
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

The city never showed much of a reaction to anything. Unlike in Begins and TDK, where we got a real sense of how the city felt about Batman and the Joker, Gotham seemed really empty and hollow in TDKR. Its unfortunate, because this is the one movie where the city could have really come forward as a character of its own.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:24 AM   #124
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Given how notoriously bad Nolan's extras are, I actually liked how there was less random Gothamite stuff in TDKR and that the focus was kept mostly on the main players, with some side characters to flesh things out a bit. Kept me involved in the main arcs, most importantly Bruce's. But the "voice of Gotham" debate is a pretty well-worn one on here, so I'll leave it at that.

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Old 04-09-2013, 01:31 AM   #125
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Given how notoriously bad Nolan's extras are, I actually liked how there was less random Gothamite stuff in TDKR and that the focus was kept mostly on the main players, with some side characters to flesh things out a bit. Kept me involved in the main arcs, most importantly Bruce's. But the "voice of Gotham" debate is a pretty well-worn one on here, so I'll leave it at that.
We never got the "NO MORE DEAD COPS" out of TDKR.

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