'78-'87 Superman series vs. '89-'97 Batman series

[The Joker]

Batman flushes his Batmobile blueprints down the toilet lol? Pull the other one, it rings.

[kedrell]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

It's quite obvious, if you even bothered to watch the movie.

"Remember Max. You flush it. I flaunt it." - Penguin (to Max Schreck)

He simply got them the same way he got the shredded documents from Max Schreck..

Hmmm, that doesn't begin to make any sense. Where did they ever even hint that Batman did that with blueprints to the Batmobile? How would Penguin know to even look for them or where to look for them? He doesn't know who Batman is.

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Batman flushes his Batmobile blueprints down the toilet lol? Pull the other one, it rings.

Metaphor appears to be lost on you. What he says doesn't mean that they were flushed down the toilet. It means that he collects what is thrown away and either ends up in the sewer, or he has some other means of getting them.

Originally Posted by kedrell

Hmmm, that doesn't begin to make any sense. Where did they ever even hint that Batman did that with blueprints to the Batmobile? How would Penguin know to even look for them or where to look for them? He doesn't know who Batman is.

It's simple. They somehow ended up in the trash and Penguin got a hold of them.

[kedrell]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

It's simple. They somehow ended up in the trash and Penguin got a hold of them.

Again, they don't say at all that Bruce thows them out and even if they did, how does Penguin know to look for them and where? Does he just go through all the trash in Gotham on the off chance that he might get the Batmobile blueprints?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

Metaphor appears to be lost on you. What he says doesn't mean that they were flushed down the toilet. It means that he collects what is thrown away and either ends up in the sewer, or he has some other means of getting them.

No, he collected what Max threw away because Max was the one he was gunning for, nobody else.

Why would he be collecting every bit of trash the city throws away lol?

Originally Posted by kedrell

Again, they don't say at all that Bruce thows them out and even if they did, how does Penguin know to look for them and where? Does he just go through all the trash in Gotham on the off chance that he might get the Batmobile blueprints?

It sounds even more absurd when you say it like that lol.

As if Batman would just throw away his blueprints anyway.

[OutRiddled]

It's about as ridiculous as Coleman Reese finding the plans for the Tumbler/Batmobile. But, oh wait, that was in Nolan's movie. Nolan is god, do not question the almighty Nolan.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

It's about as ridiculous as Coleman Reese finding the plans for the Tumbler/Batmobile. But, oh wait, that was in Nolan's movie. Nolan is god, do not question the almighty Nolan.

Since the Tumbler came from Applied Sciences, it's hardly absurd it was found there. Penguin finding Batmobile plans in the trash or the sewers or what ever, so ridiculous. And not true.

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Since the Tumbler came from Applied Sciences, it's hardly absurd it was found there. Penguin finding Batmobile plans in the trash or the sewers or what ever, so ridiculous. And not true.

And their security was so lacking that an average employee could easily find them?

Makes as much sense as the batmobile plans finding their way in the trash somehow.

[Snow Queen]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

And their security was so lacking that an average employee could easily find them?

Makes as much sense as the batmobile plans finding their way in the trash somehow.

A man investigating the company notices some problems with the numbers, does some digging and finds the plans for the tumbler that would have been kept in the company archives. How is this anywhere near Batman throwing out his plans for the Batmobile? Why would Batman throw them out to begin with?

[Rorschach2012]

Superman's last two movies are completely unwatchable.

I enjoy watching Forever and B&R.

Superman=Batman
Superman II<Batman Returns

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

A man investigating the company notices some problems with the numbers, does some digging and finds the plans for the tumbler that would have been kept in the company archives. How is this anywhere near Batman throwing out his plans for the Batmobile? Why would Batman throw them out to begin with?

Why would he keep the tumbler plans in the company archives, so any employee can access them?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

And their security was so lacking that an average employee could easily find them?

Reese wasn't an average employee. He was authorized to do diligence on the LSI deal numbers. He went snooping into W.E.'s numbers and noticed the Applied Sciences division disappeared. So he went rooting through some old archive files and stumbled across it.

Makes as much sense as the batmobile plans finding their way in the trash somehow.

Baloney. How you can equate Batman''s top secret Batmobile schematics being found in the trash by Penguin to finding Tumbler schematics in the place where it was built? It's laughable.

[Bruce Malone]

What if returns was thrown into the mix for the superman series? as it's technically a semi-continuation of the donnerverse.

[Shikamaru]

Returns is canon but discards III and IV from continuity.

[Snow Queen]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

Why would he keep the tumbler plans in the company archives, so any employee can access them?

Just read this, there's no point in typing out another post to reply to the same points.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Reese wasn't an average employee. He was authorized to do diligence on the LSI deal numbers. He went snooping into W.E.'s numbers and noticed the Applied Sciences division disappeared. So he went rooting through some old archive files and stumbled across it.



Baloney. How you can equate Batman''s top secret Batmobile schematics being found in the trash by Penguin to finding Tumbler schematics in the place where it was built? It's laughable.

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Reese wasn't an average employee. He was authorized to do diligence on the LSI deal numbers. He went snooping into W.E.'s numbers and noticed the Applied Sciences division disappeared. So he went rooting through some old archive files and stumbled across it.



Baloney. How you can equate Batman''s top secret Batmobile schematics being found in the trash by Penguin to finding Tumbler schematics in the place where it was built? It's laughable.

I don't know how Penguin got them, but it's implied he has means: "What you hide, I discover. What you flush down the toilet, I place on my mantle. Get the picture?".

He found the tumbler plans in some old archives? That's twice as lame. That's even worse than letting Vicki Vale into the batcave (even though it was implied she had already figured out that Bruce Wayne=Batman).

[batfreakforever]

Every Bat-film has a special place in my heart.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

I don't know how Penguin got them, but it's implied he has means: "What you hide, I discover. What you flush down the toilet, I place on my mantle. Get the picture?".

Yeah, he was talking to MAX about the incriminating evidence he tried to hide, like the toxic waste, those shredded documents, and his partner's dead body.

It was Max he was after to blackmail him into helping him. He doesn't go rooting through random garbage of Gotham's citizens lol. How did you not get that?

He found the tumbler plans in some old archives? That's twice as lame.

How is it lame? Explain in great detail why finding plans to a vehicle in the archives of a company that BUILT it in the first place is lame?

That's even worse than letting Vicki Vale into the batcave (even though it was implied she had already figured out that Bruce Wayne=Batman).

This just smacks of desperation. You're not even trying any more.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Bruce Malone

What if returns was thrown into the mix for the superman series? as it's technically a semi-continuation of the donnerverse.

While Superman Returns ends up discarding III and IV, the Burton/Schumacher films still gets my vote as I just couldn't enjoy SR at all.

[theMan-Bat]

Definitely the Batman film series for these two:



As for Superman, eh...more than any of the big budgeted glitzy star-packed feature films of Superman by Donner, or Lester, or Singer, I prefer the first Superman feature film, called Superman and the Mole Men (1951). This low budget, black and white feature. It features a Superman that battles something other than Lex Luthor and Zod. This Superman battles against prejudice, ignorance and conformity of people in groups forming a lynch mob. I'm glad the film wasn't Superman versus the Mole Men, and instead was Superman defending the Mole Men with a still relevant moral message against discrimination and the closed minded group-think mob mentality. As George Carlin use to say, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."



It features a feisty Lois Lane with attitude.

It also features a competent, serious Clark Kent that isn't a goofy bumbling buffoon played for laughs.

A Superman with an edge, outraged by the prejudice of the people. "I'm going to give you one last chance to stop acting like Nazi stormtroopers!"

Of course they're not swayed by Superman's words of reason, Superman disarms the lynch mob, "That shot came close to killing Miss Lane! Obviously none of you can be trusted with guns, so I'm going to take them away from you!" They try in vain to resist him.

It also has this Buick Roadmaster Convertible.

Originally Posted by Hypestyle

how the heck did the Penguin get the batmobile's blueprints, of all things?

The Penguin and the Red Triangle Gang obtaining those blue prints to the Batmobile is intended to be surprising, ambiguous and mysterious. It's intentionally left unexplained. How they actually did it is left open for interpretation. This isn't a mistake, it's intentionally unexplained in the film, to keep you guessing. If you enjoy some mystery, allowing you to use you're imagination, then you can be intrigued this, but if you want everything spoon fed and explained to you upfront without requiring any thought of you're own, then this will just annoy you. Not knowing the specific details of the back-story on the Penguin and the Red Triangle Gang obtaining those blue prints never bothered me one bit.

Tim Burton states his viewpoint in his commentary, "That kind of not knowing makes it more interesting."

Batman Returns screenwriter Daniel Waters did broadly explain about the Penguin, "Penguin is a character that evolved in interesting ways. When I came up with something in the script that he takes documents that have been shredded, and goes and painstakingly glues them together. That suddenly unleashed a lot in Tim of the guy underground, and he's taking all our crap, but he's doing something with it, and he knows our secrets."

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yeah, he was talking to MAX about the incriminating evidence he tried to hide, like the toxic waste, those shredded documents, and his partner's dead body.

It was Max he was after to blackmail him into helping him. He doesn't go rooting through random garbage of Gotham's citizens lol. How did you not get that?

He was after Batman as well. Especially after he foiled Penguin's first assualt on the city.

How is it lame? Explain in great detail why finding plans to a vehicle in the archives of a company that BUILT it in the first place is lame?



This just smacks of desperation. You're not even trying any more.

So an employee of Wayne Enterprises is able to find the Tumbler plans in some 'old archives', where for some reason it just left there for anyone to find.. versus.. a criminal genius who was able to dig dirt on Max Shreck (Gotham's wealthiest businessman), has access to Gotham's underground sewer network and controls the Red Triangle Gang?

It is you that is reaching buddy.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

He was after Batman as well.

No, he's not. Batman doesn't even become a concern until they face off outside Gotham Cathedral.

Especially after he foiled Penguin's first assualt on the city.

Baloney. Batman didn't foil a thing. The point of that attack was to get his hands on Max. He got him. Batman didn't ruin anything.

So an employee of Wayne Enterprises is able to find the Tumbler plans in some 'old archives', where for some reason it just left there for anyone to find.. versus.. a criminal genius who was able to dig dirt on Max Shreck (Gotham's wealthiest businessman), has access to Gotham's underground sewer network and controls the Red Triangle Gang?

Repeating again: Reese was not just any employee. He was authorized to crunch the numbers on the LSI holdings deal. He found irregularities in W.E.'s numbers because he went snooping into files where he found the Applied Sciences division disappeared and uncovered the Tumbler plans. You're talking about plans for a vehicle being found in a company that built it in the first place. Perfectly logical and plausible.

Compared to Batman, for some reason decided to throw away his top secret blueprints to his Batmobile in the trash, where the Penguin just happened to come across this garbage and started rooting through it, found them and kept them.

If you were reaching any harder your arm would be dislocated from it's socket.

[the last son]

Anyone else agree Batman is now more popular worldwide than Superman. I don't think it's close anymore

[Spider-Aziz]

The 1989 Batman film is still my favorite film, not only in its genre
The 1978 Superman film is awesome, but not as enjoyable

Batman 1989 > Superman 1978

Batman Returns is Mediocre, it's my least favorite Batman film, not only in the series
Superman 2 is the winner here, it's great

Superman 2 > Batman Returns

Batman Forever is fun, but I don't like how they treated Two-Face and Riddler when they team-up
Superman III is fun, nothing visually disgusting in lights or anything around it. I take it as a guilty pleasure

Superman III > Batman Forever

Batman & Robin is fun
Superman IV is forgettable

Batman & Robin wins, by a mile

Superman Returns > all Batman sequels

Overall, Superman wins here