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Old 04-10-2013, 08:58 PM   #101
batfreakforever
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

Is Bane really the anti-Batman in TDKR? If so what makes him the anti-Batman? Did Nolans/Goyer give Batman & Bane more incommon with eachother that the comics? Is it as simple as Bane can't take off his mask and move past his pain but Bruce/Batman can and is that another reason why the film-makers made it so Bane couldnt take off the mask? Or reasons why he made them both train by Ra's? Bruce survived 8yrs without Batman but Bane could'nt without his mask? Lindy hemming said something like Bane wears armour because he damaged his back but Bruce also gets his back damaged and is able to recover (maybe nolan didnt want that said in the film cause it might be too on the nose?) I think it was good that they didn't make Bane afraid of bats thats why he goes for Batman, I like the LOS reasons better!

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #102
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Is Bane really the anti-Batman in TDKR? If so what makes him the anti-Batman? Did Nolans/Goyer give Batman & Bane more incommon with eachother that the comics? Is it as simple as Bane can't take off his mask and move past his pain but Bruce/Batman can and is that another reason why the film-makers made it so Bane couldnt take off the mask? Or reasons why he made them both train by Ra's? Bruce survived 8yrs without Batman but Bane could'nt without his mask? Lindy hemming said something like Bane wears armour because he damaged his back but Bruce also gets his back damaged and is able to recover (maybe nolan didnt want that said in the film cause it might be too on the nose?) I think it was good that they didn't make Bane afraid of bats thats why he goes for Batman, I like the LOS reasons better!
- Rachel runs out for his mom and Alfred to help Bruce in Batman Begins; Talia escapes the Pit and finds her father to wreak havoc in the Pit and in the midst of it, Ra's saves Bane. Also, Ra's finds Bruce as well in a prison, much as how he found Bane in a prison(the Pit).

- Bruce and Bane are trained by Ra's al Ghul, and both left the LoS but under very much different circumstances.

- Bane breaks Batman and leaves him in the Pit to suffer but Bruce heals up from his pain and escapes; Bane is left to suffer through pain all of his life and never truly escaped the Pit himself since he was saved. Bruce was saved as well when he was young, but he made the climb up to the Pit himself.


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Old 04-10-2013, 09:12 PM   #103
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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Originally Posted by batfreakforever View Post
Is Bane really the anti-Batman in TDKR? If so what makes him the anti-Batman? Did Nolans/Goyer give Batman & Bane more incommon with eachother that the comics? Is it as simple as Bane can't take off his mask and move past his pain but Bruce/Batman can and is that another reason why the film-makers made it so Bane couldnt take off the mask? Or reasons why he made them both train by Ra's? Bruce survived 8yrs without Batman but Bane could'nt without his mask? Lindy hemming said something like Bane wears armour because he damaged his back but Bruce also gets his back damaged and is able to recover (maybe nolan didnt want that said in the film cause it might be too on the nose?) I think it was good that they didn't make Bane afraid of bats thats why he goes for Batman, I like the LOS reasons better!
Excerpt from an analysis I wrote:

Quote:
Another parallel between Bruce and Bane is their pain. This will be, in part, discussed more in depth later when I focus on The Pit. But, there is a bit Iíd like to talk about here regarding that. The two both are forced to deal with pain, physically and psychologically for Bruce and physically for Bane. The difference is that Bruce is forced to go through a character arc to escape his pain and to rise above it. Bane, on the other hand, uses medication to escape his pain. Bane avoids his problems like Bruce did before Bane sent him to The Pit and suffers from the same fatal flaw Bruce made during their first encounter: arrogance. Bruce has learned from his mistakes but Bane hasnít had to learn, heís hidden from his pain with a mask. And what did they state was the main theme (like fear and chaos in the previous films) of the film?

Quote:
The Pit is where majority of Bruceís character arc occurs. A remote location in an unknown presumably Middle Eastern country where people are thrown to die. But what is the true meaning of The Pit? What is it really? For that, we first must look at a quote Christopher Nolan once used to describe Bruce, ďa man frozen in time.Ē Then we must ask the obvious question: when is he frozen? One could say heís frozen to when his parents died but thatís not what the film suggests. The film suggests that Bruce is frozen when he fell into the well in the opening of Batman Begins.

The Pit is a very obvious metaphor for the well that Bruce fell in as a child, the well that he is frozen in time within. What happened when he fell in the well? His father pulled him out. He never escaped that well for himself. Heís been trapped in that well his whole life. This is reflected in dialogue such as Alfredís insistence on Bruce finding a life outside of the cave (which, of course, is connected to the well). Bruce climbing from The Pit is not just an escape or him feeling fear again, instead itís an escape from a moment he has been frozen in his entire life. Heís escaping the well he never escaped for himself, escaping a mental barrier heís created and finally ready to escape from. Heís finally ready to let go of the pain and anger that drove him to become an empty shell by the beginning of the film.



Heís finally able to live. This is the darkest irony of the film for me, Bane is the one that allows Bruce to learn how to live by robbing him of the one thing heís always been able to fall back upon: Batman. Bruce is only able to undergo his character arc when he has been stripped of his illusions and can see clearly what he is without Batman: nothing. This propels him to live as Bruce Wayne, not just as Batman.

I said weíd return to Bane and now is the time. Bane, as mentioned before, is a dark reflection of Bruce. This was most obvious with parallels like both training and then leaving the League (Bane excommunicated, Bruce leaving voluntarily) but is reinforced through some much more subtle parallels between the two. A common complaint about Bane is that him not escaping The Pit weakened him as a character. I disagree. Bane is a monster. A man fuelled by hatred but still grappling with his own humanity. A man divided and unable to reconcile with himself. Bruce escapes from The Pit for himself, finally escaping a mental block and becoming the master of his own destiny. Much like Bruce was stuck in the well still before escaping, Bane is stuck in the Pit still. Bruce was saved from the well by his father and Bane was saved from The Pit by Raís. Bane never escaping The Pit is a metaphor for his mind. He never escaped that mental barrier that Bruce does while in The Pit. This mental barrier is allowing anger to rule his life. Bruce allowed this until his escape and Bane allows this until his demise. This is why he fails. Bruce has risen and has moved on from the anger while Bane allows it to control him. Look at two shots in the film:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:



What is the difference between the two? Bruce is screaming in the first. Heís yelling in anger and frustration. Heís controlled by his anger. The second shot has Bruce calm, collected and ready. Heís already beaten Bane and risen above what Bane could ever hope to be.

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:06 PM   #104
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight View Post
Excerpt from an analysis I wrote:
Really cool post. Could you think of a good meaphor/reason why the Nolans/Goyer just blew Bane away? I know some fans were pissed but there has to be another reason apart from catwoman guns policy and Batman no kill rules?

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:20 PM   #105
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

Plus why do you think Bruce couldn't stay living as Bruce wayne but now he lives under another name because of the clean slate device, is it beacause he wants to really start from scratch or a CLEAN SLATE not as a WAYNE but his own life?

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:22 PM   #106
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

plus Bane is just Bane he cant be anybody else but Bruce can?

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:22 PM   #107
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

I think Bane remained relatively the same on the scale in my head. Being that I was born in the 90s he's always kind of been around. He may not have been an A villain. But I wouldnt say less than a B...

Here's how I would rank them:
A villains - Bat villains everyone and their mother has heard of them, dressed their dog up as them, and dressed up as a ****ty version of them for halloween.

Joker
Two-Face
Catwoman
Riddler
Penguin

B villains - Many non-comic fans have seen them, but often don't recognize them by name.

Poison Ivy
Scarecrow
Mr. Freeze
Bane
Ra's Al Ghul
Harley Quinn

C villains - would likely be villains only comic fans have heard of, but still important to Batman mythos, or well-developed characters.

Talia Al Ghul
Hugo Strange
Killer Croc
Black Mask
Hush
Clayface
Mad Hatter
Victor Zsasz

D villains - would be those who had a single comic run, probably won't ever be featured in a film and are often used as plot devices. Or they are poorly developed, nonsense characters that appear way more often than they should.

Calendar Man
Tweedles
Ventriloquist
Man-Bat
Killer Moth

F villains - are the rest. single use, disposable villains that never should have been thought up. There are plenty. I won't try to list any.

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:29 PM   #108
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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Really cool post. Could you think of a good meaphor/reason why the Nolans/Goyer just blew Bane away? I know some fans were pissed but there has to be another reason apart from catwoman guns policy and Batman no kill rules?
I don't know if this is a metaphor or "reason" per se, but it could just be that an unceremonious, sudden demise was the best kind of poetic justice for the character. He nonchalantly killed many people in very sudden, brutal ways throughout the movie and was planning to go out in a blaze of glory at the end. A cannon to the chest was a pretty brutal way for him to go out, and pretty inglorious indeed.

But truly, I feel Bane is done (spiritually speaking) after he's defeated by Batman. That massive pride of his has already taken a huge hit, and his legend has been deflated right before his enemy.

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:31 PM   #109
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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Really cool post. Could you think of a good meaphor/reason why the Nolans/Goyer just blew Bane away? I know some fans were pissed but there has to be another reason apart from catwoman guns policy and Batman no kill rules?
Thank you.

Honestly, I saw that more as time constraints. Bane was already beaten, it was just a matter of making sure he didn't get up for the climax.

EDIT: And as BatLobsterRises says, it's a bit of poetic justice.

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Plus why do you think Bruce couldn't stay living as Bruce wayne but now he lives under another name because of the clean slate device, is it beacause he wants to really start from scratch or a CLEAN SLATE not as a WAYNE but his own life?
The way I saw it, he had finally learned to live and move on (cleaning his slate) and wanted to live without people hounding him as Bruce Wayne. He's finally ready to live life on his own terms rather than anyone else's.


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plus Bane is just Bane he cant be anybody else but Bruce can?
Bane definitely could have become someone better, however, he never let go of his pain and escaped that mental barrier (symbolized by The Pit/The well). That's the difference between Bruce and Bane. Bruce learns to move on and end his self destructive existence that collapsed by the beginning of TDKR while Bane allows his pain to control him. Bruce escapes the Pit to conquer his pain, Bane wears a mask to escape confronting his pain.


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Old 04-10-2013, 10:34 PM   #110
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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Really cool post. Could you think of a good meaphor/reason why the Nolans/Goyer just blew Bane away? I know some fans were pissed but there has to be another reason apart from catwoman guns policy and Batman no kill rules?
A metaphor could be the Nolans/Goyer just wanted to get Bane away from the picture

He wanted to kill Bruce in a cheap manner, so he got a cheap death. That's how I see it. I don't mind the death myself except I'd change it up with these: Catwoman doesn't have a witty line after she kills Bane and the scene just jumps to something else, and during Gordon's speech at the end, while we see Gothamites walking out of their houses, the orphans looking where the nuke detonated, we get a snippet of City Hall where a police officer walks out of the building holding unto Bane's shattered mask.

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Plus why do you think Bruce couldn't stay living as Bruce wayne but now he lives under another name because of the clean slate device, is it beacause he wants to really start from scratch or a CLEAN SLATE not as a WAYNE but his own life?
Read your post again and ask yourself if you're asking a very silly question, lol. Why would Bruce Wayne want to leave Gotham but still be called Bruce Wayne especially when he's dead in the eyes of Gotham?

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Old 04-10-2013, 11:04 PM   #111
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

I love the contrast of Bruce's mindset and how he reacts to Bane stalking him up the staircase during fight II as apposed to fight I. Brilliant.

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Old 04-10-2013, 11:08 PM   #112
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I love the contrast of Bruce's mindset and how he reacts to Bane stalking him up the staircase during fight II as apposed to fight I. Brilliant.
Heck yeah. First desperation, then composure and pure determination. Bale really emoted well from within the cowl.

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Old 04-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #113
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Heck yeah. First desperation, then composure and pure determination. Bale really emoted well from within the cowl.
I also love how when Bane catches his punch in the second fight; Batman just keeps pushing forward. And the grunts Bale was letting out while doing that was beyond bad ass. Bruce was not losing that rematch.

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Old 04-10-2013, 11:37 PM   #114
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A metaphor could be the Nolans/Goyer just wanted to get Bane away from the picture

He wanted to kill Bruce in a cheap manner, so he got a cheap death. That's how I see it. I don't mind the death myself except I'd change it up with these: Catwoman doesn't have a witty line after she kills Bane and the scene just jumps to something else, and during Gordon's speech at the end, while we see Gothamites walking out of their houses, the orphans looking where the nuke detonated, we get a snippet of City Hall where a police officer walks out of the building holding unto Bane's shattered mask.



Read your post again and ask yourself if you're asking a very silly question, lol. Why would Bruce Wayne want to leave Gotham but still be called Bruce Wayne especially when he's dead in the eyes of Gotham?
I know the reason behind them all I just like asking people because they might pick up on something else that I have not.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:36 AM   #115
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I love the contrast of Bruce's mindset and how he reacts to Bane stalking him up the staircase during fight II as apposed to fight I. Brilliant.
See, that contrast is the reason why I wanted someone, like an officer, to walk out of City Hall with Bane's broken mask because it would go in stride with how Bane just walked off carrying Bruce's broken cowl in his hand while Bruce laid there motion less until his men dragged him off. So many different things that contrast the two battles(even in the time frame as the first fight was almost a clean two minutes extra of just Bane taunting Batman while in the second it was all business between the two).

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:27 AM   #116
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Excerpt from an analysis I wrote:
WOW

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:46 AM   #117
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That is a very good write up that Gotham's Knight did. If more people read that maybe more people can see what these films have to offer. Fantastic mate.

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Old 04-11-2013, 10:04 AM   #118
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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Looks like the same kind of masks to me.





Yeah I'm not seeing it. I don't think Luchador mask when I look at Spidey's mask.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #119
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Then by that logic just about every villain in Batman's rogues gallery has been a physical threat to him at some time or another.







Do you really think that when anyone thinks which villain is a physical challenge for Batman they think of the likes of Penguin, Joker and Riddler?
LOL, in this Scan, didnít Bane solved the Riddlerís Riddle and injected him with Venom so Bane could analyzed Batman when he confronts Riddler on Venom?

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:40 PM   #120
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Default Re: Bane's place in the rogues gallery post-Rises

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D villains - would be those who had a single comic run, probably won't ever be featured in a film and are often used as plot devices. Or they are poorly developed, nonsense characters that appear way more often than they should.

Calendar Man
Tweedles
Ventriloquist
Man-Bat
Killer Moth
All these guys have potential. What they did with Calendar Man was great.. They could show up in future media.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #121
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Killer Moth has potential?

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:43 PM   #122
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Yeah I'm not seeing it. I don't think Luchador mask when I look at Spidey's mask.


Youíre comparing a $140 million budget movie to a fan that bought a ten dollar Bane mask from HotTopic. Your argument is highly invalid. You have selective thinking. Like most comic book fans

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #123
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LOL, in this Scan, didn’t Bane solved the Riddler’s Riddle and injected him with Venom so Bane could analyzed Batman when he confronts Riddler on Venom?
Correct. Batman # 490.

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You’re comparing a $140 million budget movie to a fan that bought a ten dollar Bane mask from HotTopic. Your argument is highly invalid. You have selective thinking. Like most comic book fans
Fine, you want a more expensive version, here you go:




I still see a Luchador mask.

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:02 PM   #124
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Correct. Batman # 490.



Fine, you want a more expensive version, here you go:




I still see a Luchador mask.
First of all, that move is a joke. second of all ,they can make the original bane mask look like spiderman's movie mask if they wanted too. He looks like a luchador in "Batman and Robin" because that is what they were going for with Bane's look.

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:12 PM   #125
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Killer Moth has potential?
Yeah, he's like the anti-Batman..

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More faithful look than Tom Hardy.

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