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Old 04-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #76
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

Why is that a problem? Because it negates the whole "I had a bad day once" thing in the comics?

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #77
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

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Nicholson's acting in the Burton movie may have been fun but in terms of how the Joker was written in that story, the 1989 movie may just be the worst Joker story ever told. It writes the Joker in the exact opposite way he should be written and breaks almost every rule about the character.

A mob boss that wants revenge on Batman and prove that he is better than him? A man with a name? A character that is basically thoroughly explained? A man that fears death? All of that is completely the exact opposite of what the Joker is. All of this is the fault of Burton and the writers btw, not Jack's. Jack's performance is fun to watch but the main thing that hurts the Joker in that movie is the way the script characterizes him.

Thus in other words, Ledger and Nolan trying to make TDK's Joker the exact opposite of the Burton/Jack's Joker is a good thing because Burton/Jack's Joker is the exact opposite of the Joker in general. lol

Nah.


Nicholson's Joker is as much the Joker as Ledger's, they're just different Jokers. Why would anyone want to see Ledger play a "Nicholson Joker"? It made sense to veer away and create your own thing, which Nolan and Ledger did. That's the beauty of interpretation.


Not every Joker fears death, not every Joker laughs at it (let's remember, the Joker could have been mowed down by the Batwing's gunfire and went down in a blaze of glory, he wasn't wincing or cowering when being shot at).

Some Joker's have a background and origin. Some don't.




Do you guys think the TDK Joker would be laughing if a random SWAT guy threw him off the building? Or if he was mortally wounded and dying by an average citizen? Or if he was killed off before any of his plans came to fruition. I don't think so.


He gets satisfaction in the fact that BATMAN through him over the edge. "One rule" remember? If he got Batman to do that, he'd win. That's why he's laughing.



Not sure why people criticize the Nicholson Joker for yelling on his way down. Why would he laugh when a heavy statue is ripping his leg down? Where's the fun or irony in that? He doesn't even know that Batman did it to him. Does struggling and yelling to your death make you any less evil or a villain? Who cares that he values his life. He planned a getaway to fight another day and is struggling on the latter. His end game and one of his plans isn't to make Batman "kill him". Of course he's going to yell on the way down.

It's not like the Joker never feared dying in the comics. Or in the Animated Series, "BATMAN, YOU WOULDN'T LET ME FRY WOULD YOU!?! BAAAAAAAATMAAAAAAAAAAAAN!?!"


He still died with a big grin on his face and got the last laugh. That's good enough for me.








Oh, and "worst Joker ever created"? C'mon. If you think he sucks, what do you think about all that Silver Age stuff. Or Caesar Romero Joker. Or the, "The Batman" Jamaican Joker. Or the great Bruce Timm/Paul Dini Joker.

Do you like the Frank Miller Joker that puts on lipstick, says suggestive homosexual things to Batman?


Last edited by milost; 04-11-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:37 PM   #78
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

Yeah, Joker showed fear all the time in the animated series.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:43 AM   #79
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

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Not sure why people criticize the Nicholson Joker for yelling on his way down. Why would he laugh when a heavy statue is ripping his leg down? Where's the fun or irony in that? He doesn't even know that Batman did it to him. Does struggling and yelling to your death make you any less evil or a villain? Who cares that he values his life. He planned a getaway to fight another day and is struggling on the latter. His end game and one of his plans isn't to make Batman "kill him". Of course he's going to yell on the way down.

It's not like the Joker never feared dying in the comics. Or in the Animated Series, "BATMAN, YOU WOULDN'T LET ME FRY WOULD YOU!?! BAAAAAAAATMAAAAAAAAAAAAN!?!"


He still died with a big grin on his face and got the last laugh. That's good enough for me.
It worked in the movie because it was the hero's comeuppance against the villain in a classic showdown. The Joker is not supposed to win. I don't know of any Batman story where the Joker wins in the end.. He may get the 'last laugh' but only in death.

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Oh, and "worst Joker ever created"? C'mon. If you think he sucks, what do you think about all that Silver Age stuff. Or Caesar Romero Joker. Or the, "The Batman" Jamaican Joker. Or the great Bruce Timm/Paul Dini Joker.

Do you like the Frank Miller Joker that puts on lipstick, says suggestive homosexual things to Batman?
Cesar Romero's Joker is awesome, what are you talking about?

I also like Frank Miller's interpretation, because he sees the Joker's relationship with Batman as borderline homosexual and that's a different take on the Batman/Joker dynamic introduced in the 70's.

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Old 04-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #80
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

I don't have a problem with Romero Joker at all. I dig him for what he is and how he fits in the 60s series. I'm just saying, based on Shikamaru's reasoning, "worst written Joker/worst Joker", then all those other ones must not live up to his standards and must suck as well.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:32 PM   #81
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

Romero Joker is the best thing about West's series.

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Old 04-12-2013, 01:33 PM   #82
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

I think Burgess Meredith's Penguin was. A terrific actor and he looked identical to the comic book character. He created some of the classic character traits that the comics adapted like the waddling walk and the 'Waugh waugh waugh' bird laugh.

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Old 04-12-2013, 04:42 PM   #83
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

I honestly still enjoy the 60s show. Gorshin, Romero, Meredith, etc definitely put a real stamp on these characters which I think people still associate with the characters.

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Old 04-12-2013, 04:46 PM   #84
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

The best things about the WEst show were Burgess Meredith as Penguin and Julie Newmar as Catwoman. Frank Gorshin as Riddler also is better than the actual character in the comics is much of the time for me. The rest, I can leave.

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:43 PM   #85
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

Am I the only one giving Romero love? Lol.

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Old 04-13-2013, 12:23 AM   #86
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

Gotta love Romero, stache and all. Gorshin, Meredith and Newmar too of course.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #87
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

No thanks, I watch batman as batman.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:32 PM   #88
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Default Re: Best to watch the trilogy as Bond films, not Batman

My bad. I was watching them as Power Ranger episodes.

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