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Old 04-10-2013, 03:02 PM   #176
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

I don't think making him good or bad really matters, whatever works best for the story works best for me. He might be an old timey america icon and dream boat but 40% of the audience's aren't going to know who he is anyways. Just an old dude replacing Fury or a secretive old dude that's the mastermind behind Winter Soldier or something lol. But I'm glad he's in the film since he adds credibility to the critics eyes

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Old 04-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #177
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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But wouldn't that make the role much more interesting, like Henry Fonda in Once Upon a Time in the West?
Sure it could.

But I think the film needs someone who can tell the audience the history of Winter Soldier through first-hand experience. I think that is the role Redford will play, an older, high-ranking agent who had dealings with Winter Soldier throughout the last 70 years who can tell Cap what's up. That character will allow the audience to play catch-up and flesh out what happened with the Winter Soldier while we weren't looking. No one knows Winter Soldier is Bucky, that's for Cap to figure out.

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Old 04-10-2013, 05:21 PM   #178
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Two thoughts:

Given the MCU's apparent tendency to downplay or avoid nationalistic bad guys (Skull's pseudo-Nazis, Western-originated Mandarin), what if Winter Soldier isn't controlled by Russians? Maybe he's even controlled by the US (or a rogue US agency)? And this is how RR's character encountered him.

I wonder if the Roxxon corporation will be involved. It's been shown in the MCU, and it does play a minor tangential role in the WS comic (Lukin uses a CC to buy it).

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Old 04-10-2013, 05:23 PM   #179
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Why can't Winter Soldier be controlled by neo Hydra? Maybe that's what Armin Zola is doing in the movie. It would tie it in better with the first film too.

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Old 04-10-2013, 05:44 PM   #180
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Two thoughts:

Given the MCU's apparent tendency to downplay or avoid nationalistic bad guys (Skull's pseudo-Nazis, Western-originated Mandarin), what if Winter Soldier isn't controlled by Russians? Maybe he's even controlled by the US (or a rogue US agency)? And this is how RR's character encountered him.

I wonder if the Roxxon corporation will be involved. It's been shown in the MCU, and it does play a minor tangential role in the WS comic (Lukin uses a CC to buy it).
Winter Soldier will likely be controlled by the same people Black Widow was controlled by.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:56 AM   #181
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Winter Soldier will likely be controlled by the same people Black Widow was controlled by.
Likely. However, I think the Winter Soldier's ledger will run a slightly brighter shade of red than Natasha's.

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:53 AM   #182
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Redford is an American icon. Pitting Redford against the guy who wears the American flag as his costume is hard to believe. Redford v. America.

I'm not saying it won't happen or that anyone is wrong, it's just hard to believe.
My thoughts exactly.

Though I had let myself suspect that Alexander Pierce is an alias for Aleksander Lukin.

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:40 AM   #183
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Which actually kind of makes it brilliant, who better to have as the shadowy bad guy than the last person the audience would suspect?

Though I don't think it'd be an alias for another character, more of a reimagining of a relatively minor character from the comics

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Old 04-11-2013, 04:56 PM   #184
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

could redford's character have replaced fury after fury was held responsible for tony stark hacking into sheilds comuters in avengers?

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Old 04-11-2013, 06:41 PM   #185
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Pierce will likely be overseeing fury as failout of his going against World Council In The AVengers,and has information on Winter Soldier.I see no chance of Robert Redford playing
a bad guy.If anything he will be foil to fury that audences are suspose to dislike only to discover he's not as bad as you think and the real people to dislike are the World Council.

The russians won't be villains.I am calling It now It will be modern version of Hydra and they has Infillerated world governments.

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Old 04-11-2013, 06:44 PM   #186
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Redford could literally be like Ralph Fiennes in Skyfall. Maybe some wondered if he had ulterior motives, like simply being ambitious for M's job, but he turned out to be a decent chap in the end and did put himself in harm's way for Dench.

Maybe Pierce might give Cap a tough time (especially if he clashes with him on whether to kill the Winter Soldier whereas Cap will want to save him), but his heart might be in the right place in the end.

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Old 04-11-2013, 09:37 PM   #187
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

In keeping with the Skyfall analogy, wonder if Emily VanCamp is playing the new "Moneypenny."

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Old 04-11-2013, 09:57 PM   #188
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

She'll probably only reveal her name at the end as Sharon, just like Moneypenny.

Now all we need is a komodo dragon.

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:32 AM   #189
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
In keeping with the Skyfall analogy, wonder if Emily VanCamp is playing the new "Moneypenny."
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She'll probably only reveal her name at the end as Sharon, just like Moneypenny.

Now all we need is a komodo dragon.
Does that mean Cap will get shot by Sharon in this movie, only to get "resurrected" a few scenes later?

As for Redford, what if he's a veteran SHIELD agent who has made many compromises, done many shady things, and "lost his way" under the influence of the WSC, but then is given a chance to redeem himself (by Cap) later in the film? Wouldn't be the first time we've seen that in movies, but it'd still be a compelling character, especially with someone like Robert Redford in the role. Could be an analogy of America having lost its way as well.

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Old 04-13-2013, 01:40 PM   #190
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Redford's Pierce can be just a perfect looking, model type new boss opposite to the controversial, disobedient Fury.
For some reason, Fury could be laid off, leading to an "outlaw" version of him, maybe helping Rogers off the record or something.
But in the end, gaining his job over Pierce.


lol, who knows.

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Old 04-13-2013, 02:47 PM   #191
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Oh, yeah, I remember something about Fury on the run... that kind of story, esepecially with Redford being that old and having old connections really links together with the conspiracy action story thing. Good call.

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Old 05-13-2013, 09:45 PM   #192
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Old 05-13-2013, 09:50 PM   #193
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

That joke wasn't clever the first time and it isn't improving with age.

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:19 PM   #194
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

My apologies... I must not have seen it the first time around.

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:24 PM   #195
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

We came up with some pretty good theories of who Pierce really is in the general thread.

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:26 PM   #196
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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My apologies... I must not have seen it the first time around.
eh no worries.The haters are saying something similar every time they decide to knock IM3. It gets tedious.

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:38 PM   #197
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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We came up with some pretty good theories of who Pierce really is in the general thread.
Actually, I did see some of those, and think they may have some truth. Although as out-of-the-blue as IM3 was, who can tell what kind of twists Marvel is willing to do? Maybe something we'll "neverrrr see coming..."

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The haters are saying something similar every time they decide to knock IM3. It gets tedious.
Ah. I only just saw it yesterday, and was avoiding any spoilers until then. FWIW, I don't exactly hate it. Or at least, I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. But this isn't the IM3 thread, so I'll leave it there.

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Old 07-07-2013, 11:59 PM   #198
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

I think that Redford is General Lukin. It would make for a very cool reveal. Lukin also allows the filmmakers to explore the Russian connection with both Bucky and Black Widow.

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Old 07-27-2013, 07:09 PM   #199
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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I think that Redford is General Lukin. It would make for a very cool reveal. Lukin also allows the filmmakers to explore the Russian connection with both Bucky and Black Widow.
This still remains my favorite possibility, though I'd clarify it further as wanting him to be a spy in SHIELD. I don't think it's a far leap from Luskin in the comics. I could live with a Hydra spy, but it would be a nice change from the first movie, and it doesn't actually discount a Hydra connection, since with the end of the Cold War it would make sense for alliances to shift. IIRC Comic!Luskin basically became a rogue agent and had sold goodies to Red Skull.

Another small point: RR is the right age for Luskin, assuming they wanted to play his origins close to the comics. (Comic!Luskin looked pretty spry for a man born in the 30s imo, but Marvel has their whole sliding timeline). Redford was born in 1936. He's a perfect fit.

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Old 07-27-2013, 07:48 PM   #200
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Maybe Cap 2 has no actual villain. The cast and crew keep putting emphasis on the fact that "nothing is black or white" so maybe there isn't a villain and TWS, Crossbones and possibly Aleksander Pierce are antagonists.

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