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9 12 48.00%
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7 3 12.00%
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:33 AM   #51
Justin
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

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Originally Posted by cheungcheung View Post
They really squandered the story line for laurel's mom's return. What the hell was the point?
While I thought it was bad, thinking about it, I guess the point was that Laurel knows her mother knew her sister was cheating and her dad bought her sister a canary, a hat and took her to ball games.

Laurel was clearly not the favorite daughter. I guess the point is just character development for her and bringing the mother in to continue that development.

I'm thinking from what the producers said, they wanted to get started on Laurel's motivation now, it's probably going to be a bigger deal next season.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:23 PM   #52
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

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I loved the write up, and I loved the concept, but I thought it was horribly done. At no point did I catch that Ollie was the inspiration for the savior and said this online which was Ollie's motivation to stop him according to the write up. Ollie running around buildings kicking doors in without his mask was stupid, as was to guarantee Thea Roy would be safe and then disappear for a few hours.
In the show's defense, it has established that Oliver is publicly acknowledged/believed to have friends in low places (case in point: his attempt to flush The Count out by posing as a buyer). So, what's to say he wouldn't have some way to contact the Vigilante? I mean, the police know that Laurel certainly was able to.

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The is Sarah alive thing seems so pointless now, unless she is alive which I don't think so. I guess it's an effective way of bringing Laurel's mom into it and maybe her parents will get back together, but this isn't why people watch Arrow really.
I think the point of it was for the show to be able to give the Lances some closure with regards to Sarah's death and its fallout (e.g. why did Laurel's mother leave?). It also served as an excuse for it to show one of the most traumatic moments in the Lances' lives; as opposed to just telling the viewers about it (i.e. complying with the rule of "show, don't tell").

Also, I think you're underestimating what the general viewers want. While you may not personally be heavily invested in it, I'd say a fair proportion of the show's audience ARE interested in the character relationships in the show.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

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Basically, it gave some good builld up bits but the Savior was just really disappointing and this episode just didn't hit with me at all really. Must just be me, because everyone else seems to like it
Not just you - while I liked the emotional content of the Lance family scenes, the wrap-up was clunky to me (unless a later episode shows that as deliberate). The entire A-plot with the Savior was unengaging, IMO. I really don't know what to say about it except that it was just "blah" to me - there was nothing there to make me interested. I did like the reassurance scenes with Thea after Roy was taken. Moira's storyline was inevitable, but also not so interesting because we knew it was coming. And I found the "Flash" comment very, very clunky. And the blood-on-hands bit was also heavy-handed, IMO.

I did give it a 7, though, because I did liked some of the supporting bits. And I tend to think of it like grading school work - with 70 being not-too-good and 50 being flunking. I know 5 should be middle of the road, but I don't think of it that way.

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:05 PM   #54
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

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Not just you - while I liked the emotional content of the Lance family scenes, the wrap-up was clunky to me (unless a later episode shows that as deliberate). The entire A-plot with the Savior was unengaging, IMO. I really don't know what to say about it except that it was just "blah" to me - there was nothing there to make me interested. I did like the reassurance scenes with Thea after Roy was taken. Moira's storyline was inevitable, but also not so interesting because we knew it was coming. And I found the "Flash" comment very, very clunky. And the blood-on-hands bit was also heavy-handed, IMO.

I did give it a 7, though, because I did liked some of the supporting bits. And I tend to think of it like grading school work - with 70 being not-too-good and 50 being flunking. I know 5 should be middle of the road, but I don't think of it that way.
I agree with that sentiment. I think it would've made for a more interesting development if they had reversed the situation and had Moira's ally betray her instead; with him echoing her earlier statement that they would do anything to protect their children. A later twist would then be that rather than betray her to Malcolm, he had instead (as a touch of mercy) tipped the police; leading to her getting arrested rather than killed.

This would thus shatter Oliver's delusions about his mother's innocence. And when confronting her, she'd reveal to him (and inadvertently, the Vigilante) that Malcolm is not a good man. Which would of course lead Oliver to start investigating him.

I dunno... maybe the writers have something else in store, which requires Moira to remain on the outside. However, at the moment, I feel the progression they have chosen was indeed very predictable.

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:27 PM   #55
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I dunno... maybe the writers have something else in store, which requires Moira to remain on the outside.
Well, I can kinda see the need for her to remain on the outside. From a dramatic perspective, Oliver needs to be the one to deal with Moira (even if he ends up turning evidence over to the cops). All of it handled without him having to make the decision, take the action, would be a letdown, I think. If she's put in prison, then there's really nothing else left do. Not to mention that Malcolm would probably have her killed there (although she'd probably be out on bail, given the circumstance) so that she couldn't reveal anything.

Although, they could have her killed by Malcolm before Oliver does anything, I guess. But that also seems less likely to me, as I said, because I think Oliver is going to have to be faced with a choice at some point. So I think that even if she does end up getting killed, that there will be some sort of reckoning on Oliver's part before that where he has to face what she is and do something about it.

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Old 04-02-2013, 06:20 PM   #56
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

Well,I gave it a 7/10 as well.I think it was the weakest since the break.I also tend to vote using 5 to 10.If an episode falls lower than a 5,I probably wouldn't keep watching.

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Old 04-02-2013, 06:56 PM   #57
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

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Well, I can kinda see the need for her to remain on the outside. From a dramatic perspective, Oliver needs to be the one to deal with Moira (even if he ends up turning evidence over to the cops). All of it handled without him having to make the decision, take the action, would be a letdown, I think. If she's put in prison, then there's really nothing else left do. Not to mention that Malcolm would probably have her killed there (although she'd probably be out on bail, given the circumstance) so that she couldn't reveal anything.
That's one way for the story to progress. However, what really matters - as you so rightly pointed out - is for Oliver needs to come to a decision/opinion about his mother and to have him act on it. If he finds her "evil" and her sins unforgivable, he needs to personally put her away. But if he finds her redeemable, he needs to forgive her. And so on, so forth. So, having someone else put her in jail would not necessarily rob the Oliver/Moira subplot of its payoff. It just depends on where they want to take the story.

Also, Moira wouldn't need to be out on bail if she chooses not to pay it. And the reason for her reluctance could be for her protection; e.g. Malcolm wouldn't be able to get to her while she's in jail/prison or he wouldn't want to risk drawing attention, etc.

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Old 04-02-2013, 08:34 PM   #58
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So, having someone else put her in jail would not necessarily rob the Oliver/Moira subplot of its payoff. It just depends on where they want to take the story.
I disagree. I mean, I agree he can forgive, but not that that is sufficient for the purpose of the story. To me he needs to be in a position where he has the power to affect what happens to Moira (forgive her or make her face some sort of justice, he's not killing her). If she's in jail, forgiveness can only impact their family relationship - he wouldn't be put in that impossible position of potentially holding her fate in his hands. I think he has to be in that position. He has to decide what happens to her (even if his decision doesn't end up implemented). Her going to jail is the easy way out for him - he doesn't have to decide if she deserves the same justice he'd give anyone else because it's out of his hands. Not nearly as much agony as taking action himself.

The show has already said he can't just leave things to the cops ("Burned") and Digg's discussed with him more than once why he can't just ignore what's happening with his mom (even though he's trying). For him to ignore it and the cops to handle the guilt or innocence, mercy or justice, is a cop-out and would not at all be a satisfying story to me.
I do worry that could come off as a rehash of the Helena situation, though.

Quote:
Also, Moira wouldn't need to be out on bail if she chooses not to pay it. And the reason for her reluctance could be for her protection; e.g. Malcolm wouldn't be able to get to her while she's in jail/prison or he wouldn't want to risk drawing attention, etc.
I can't fathom that he couldn't get to her jail. That'd be a cop-out to me, unless she was completely isolated.

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Old 04-03-2013, 02:46 AM   #59
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

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I really hope nothing happens between Oliver and Felicity beyond friendship.

Same here.
We dont need another fan pandering case. They make sense as a friendship, and the teammate thing going on..
Its not like Felicity isnt "predestined" to be with someone else too....so lets move on to more important things instead of wasting time on cheap romantic melodrama, where there isnt a need to be.

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Old 04-03-2013, 10:18 AM   #60
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

I personally loved this episode, some great emotional threads for the Lance's and Ollie and his team. I loved Ollie trying to talk the Saviour down until he knew he had no other choice but to put an arrow in him, you could tell Oliver didnt want to do it.

Was nice to see the Dark Archer again as well and Moira really is just getting herself deeper and deeper into crap, it cant end well for her. I also thought the action and the score were great in this episode and as always the island scene's were superb, wonder what happens to Yao Fei, will be interesting to find out 9/10.

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Old 04-03-2013, 05:26 PM   #61
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

What an episode! Definitely in the top two of the season. This is the second time this season an episode has had a cinematic vibe.

This episode was very intense, some parts had a horror vibe, others it came across like a thriller. The story this week was fantastic and I loved the motives for the killer.

I'm liking Roy Harpers story can't wait to see even more of him, I really do think they've got this casting spot on. There was a nice peace of foreshadowing aswell with him keeping the arrow.

This episode also had some of the greatest imagery on this show yet, when GA popped into the subway that shot looked epic.

There wasn't much action but it didn't need it, the tension was enough to pull the episode through.

As for Sarah maybe still even alive I still think she might be.

Also love that Rihanna song at the end

Island flashbacks were awesome again, I have a feeling that Fei's daughter may be a double agent.

Moira Queen is EVIL!!! Nice to se Dark Archer again.

We finally know what the symbol means

Anyone else catch the Dark Knight reference? You gonna hood up? It's the middle of the day. Very reminiscent of the the middle of the day Alfred not very subtle.

9/10

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #62
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Default Re: Episode 18 Salvation- Rate & Review Thread

My review of "Salvation" is up on TV Ever After

Arrow 1.18 “Salvation” Review

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