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Old 03-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #176
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Again, huh? I will take how Nolan handled Dent over the "tragedy" of Vader, given how awful the SW prequels were. I actually think Dent is the best example in all of comic book films of a character turning. Yes, I think if the movie was three hours, we would have had more scenes of him in the gray zone, but it worked very well.
Yeah, I never got this complaint. The guy was betrayed by the Cops, his fiancee was murdered, and half his face was burned off.

There's people in real life who have mentally snapped for less than that.

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Old 03-26-2013, 11:38 PM   #177
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Wait, what?
Lucy Liu and Cillian Murphy starred together in "Watching the Detectives". Released in 2007.

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Old 03-26-2013, 11:46 PM   #178
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Again, huh? I will take how Nolan handled Dent over the "tragedy" of Vader, given how awful the SW prequels were. I actually think Dent is the best example in all of comic book films of a character turning. Yes, I think if the movie was three hours, we would have had more scenes of him in the gray zone, but it worked very well.
After watching and reading stories of Two-Face for so long the effect didn't work so well for me. Nolan's take was tragic, but so was the version in Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and in the animated series. In the end one can only take so much before it becomes obvious he's a villain who will do terrible crimes.

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Old 03-27-2013, 01:11 AM   #179
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

The only take I like better is The Long Halloween's. Miller's is too prone to evil to be sympathetic and TAS one was good. It is on execution. I can see Hamlet done a dozen times. And not that Batman is Hamlet, but a good production will find a new way to effect you or otherwise it has failed.

Just my opinion.

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Old 03-27-2013, 01:12 AM   #180
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

The only take I like better is The Long Halloween's. Miller's is too prone to evil to be sympathetic and TAS one was good. It is on execution. I can see Hamlet done a dozen times. And not that Batman is Hamlet, but a good production will find a new way to effect you or otherwise it has failed.

Just my opinion.

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Old 03-27-2013, 06:19 PM   #181
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Such a shame people give Nolan so much crap for having the villain arcs make sense.

Shocking, I know.

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Old 03-27-2013, 08:53 PM   #182
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Such a shame people give Nolan so much crap for having the villain arcs make sense.

Shocking, I know.
The only villain arcs that he gets flack for is Bane/Talia in TDKR.

Everyone else, Ra's/Scarecrow and Joker/Two-Face and Selina were spot on for the most part, IMO.

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:37 AM   #183
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

What Nolan does poorest is he does great movies, what he does best is a perfect Batman trilogy.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:22 PM   #184
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

What Nolan does poorest is have sloppy editors.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #185
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The only villain arcs that he gets flack for is Bane/Talia in TDKR.

Everyone else, Ra's/Scarecrow and Joker/Two-Face and Selina were spot on for the most part, IMO.
Ra's and Scarecrow had an arc?

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What Nolan does poorest is he does great movies, what he does best is a perfect Batman trilogy.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #186
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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What Nolan does poorest is have sloppy editors.
Poor Lee Smith. I think he often gets blamed for things that aren't necessarily his fault.

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:24 PM   #187
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Yeah, how is that Smith's fault? It's not. In fact, that must mean he's a great editor.


Go back and read the scripts for TDKR, the pacing is just as crazy. "Alright, now we're here, this is going on, now CUT TO ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN, here's a montage with 30 events going on, now this is happening".


That's the script, not the editor.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:23 AM   #188
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When did the script ever say that? Bring up an actual example, then I may take your word for it. The editing was just as bad in BB and for you to even bring up only an "example" from TDKR doesn't help your point, milost.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:38 AM   #189
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Really? I think the Nolan films are fine editing wise. Especially his montages.

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:19 PM   #190
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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What Nolan does poorest is have sloppy editors.
I agree, but what do you mean exactly?

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #191
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Really? I think the Nolan films are fine editing wise. Especially his montages.
Some where okay, while others during fight scenes took away all the intensity. Those where the worst. Especially during Bane's and Batman's last fight. Way too many cut scenes.

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:13 PM   #192
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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When did the script ever say that? Bring up an actual example, then I may take your word for it. The editing was just as bad in BB and for you to even bring up only an "example" from TDKR doesn't help your point, milost.

The events leading up to the stadium scene.




WE'RE WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, NOW WE'RE ACROSS TOWN WITH BLAKE AND THE CEMENT CREW. DR. PAVEL. EXPLOSIONS. THE MAYOR IS GOIN TO THE BIG GAME.




How is pacing the edtior's problem when he's following the script?

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:20 PM   #193
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Bane's death in hindsight is a bit of a letdown. Tate and her death croak is a blight on this trilogy, and that paperthin character wasn't worth of being called the Demon's daughter.

The Joker disappeared from the film the way he entered it.

Ra's had a pretty good death. It doesn't get more absolute than riding a train into the ground.

Harvey had the most satisfying arc of them all. Unlike the other villains we saw his birth, his rise, his corruption, and his fall. That is A+ in my book.

On a side note, TDKR had some of the worst passage of time I've ever seen in a film.

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:40 PM   #194
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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The events leading up to the stadium scene.




WE'RE WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, NOW WE'RE ACROSS TOWN WITH BLAKE AND THE CEMENT CREW. DR. PAVEL. EXPLOSIONS. THE MAYOR IS GOIN TO THE BIG GAME.




How is pacing the edtior's problem when he's following the script?
Too bad that was actually fine editing, lol. Once again, give me a good example.

Oh, here's one for yah.

Blake saves Gordon, a knock is heard in that scene and then we see the scene where Blake is at Wayne Manor. THAT'S the kind of bad editing I am referring to.

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:07 PM   #195
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

Since we are talking about questionable editing, was it just me or during the beginning of the movie where Daggett says "it was good of you to let me on the grounds" right after he says that it goes directly to the next scene. Even on my first viewing of TDKR that cut seemed extremely off.

And I never liked the editing of when Bruce is taken and eventually lowered into the pit and then awakened to see Bane standing over him. I wish the chant would have played out about 5-8 seconds more.

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:09 PM   #196
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Since we are talking about questionable editing, was it just me or during the beginning of the movie where Daggett says "it was good of you to let me on the grounds" right after he says that it goes directly to the next scene. Even on my first viewing of TDKR that cut seemed extremely off.

And I never liked the editing of when Bruce is taken and eventually lowered into the pit and then awakened to see Bane standing over him. I wish the chant would have played out about 5-8 seconds more.
You talking about when Dagget is talking to Tate, and it abruptly cuts to a useless scene of Selina ascending the staircase? That moment illicited a "WTF" from me in the theater?

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:11 PM   #197
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You talking about when Dagget is talking to Tate, and it abruptly cuts to a useless scene of Selina ascending the staircase? That moment was illicited a "WTF" from me in the theater?
Yes! I couldn't quite think of the very next scene. But yeah, that was so weird, still is. I always kind of thought it was just me.

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:33 PM   #198
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Blake saves Gordon, a knock is heard in that scene and then we see the scene where Blake is at Wayne Manor. THAT'S the kind of bad editing I am referring to.
I don't think thats 'bad' editing. There's a name for that kind of transition, it's called an "L cut", which is basically rolling audio from the next scene under the end of the current scene. It's a pretty common and effective technique for getting from one scene to another. It's usually kind of subliminal. I never even quite realized the knock was heard before we cut to Wayne Manor before you just pointed it out.

And to me, if it was subliminal then that usually means it's good editing. But since you noticed it I guess it took you out of the movie, so fair enough.

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:55 PM   #199
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Yes! I couldn't quite think of the very next scene. But yeah, that was so weird, still is. I always kind of thought it was just me.
No, you're definitely not alone. Its particularly bad when you consider that the obtrusive staircase scene is in, but this lovely shot ended up on the cutting room floor:



Literally the moment of Bruce's re-entrance into society. The way he is going through a doorway into an old life. The birth metaphor. Gone. Cut. Lost.

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Old 04-13-2013, 06:35 AM   #200
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Default Re: What Nolan does poorest. Villain Endings

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Since we are talking about questionable editing, was it just me or during the beginning of the movie where Daggett says "it was good of you to let me on the grounds" right after he says that it goes directly to the next scene. Even on my first viewing of TDKR that cut seemed extremely off.
That edit is basically to intercut between actions that are happening at the same time. That his way of positioning time in both moments. And so he transitions , as BatLobsterRises, splitting between image and sound for the transition. So we start with her , we hear the other scene (someone speaking) starts before transition , scene plays out , cuts back to her , and he employs the same technique again (this time what triggers the transition is Alfred's voice...and it happens even another time when it goes outside to Foley).

I would say it was an easy way to intercut scenes that weren't very strong (also with the outside ) , and at the same time to define parallel actions (in time). With the scenes playing out completely and individually (her climbing with total silence , and the little dialog between alfred , miranda and the australian guy , and a little scene with the cops) maybe the pacing would be a little off. Hard to say without seeing it like that. Also it mixes well knowing that Bruce's is hold up in there (dagget says that) and so it contextualizes the space and action of Cat's going there alone , in silence.


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