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Old 03-24-2013, 02:46 PM   #526
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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I disagree, look at gun control bills. The far left position wants to restrict ammo, Harry Reid is blunt that it won't pass so he is not including it on the Bill and is getting flack for that statement. I don't see that kind of public disagreement with major Republican leaders and anytime a Republican Governor or Senate or House person makes a statement that might go against the party philosophy it seems like there PR person issues a statement 1 hour later they really didn't mean that or the quote was not taken in proper context.

Harry Reid is not some guy who writes a book about politics who might have had a position in politics at some point, he is the leader of the Senate.
But in restricting that ammo, they have tried to restrict certains guns, showing they truly have no clue what each type of gun can do, they are only looking at the cosmetics of the guns....I want to restrict ammo to a certain degree as well, not to the extent they want....as in a Cuomo in New York, but to some degree.....so I stand by my statement.

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Old 03-24-2013, 02:53 PM   #527
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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But in restricting that ammo, they have tried to restrict certains guns, showing they truly have no clue what each type of gun can do, they are only looking at the cosmetics of the guns....I want to restrict ammo to a certain degree as well, not to the extent they want....as in a Cuomo in New York, but to some degree.....so I stand by my statement.
So you saying Harry Reid the Senate Leader of the Democrat party has no importance to policy in regards to the Democrat party? As I said I am not talking about a guy who worked for the party and writes a book or even some backbencher in the house who is in a red state here and has to side with what will make him win his district. Reid is a guy who is fairly high up in the food chain for shaping Democrat policy who went against the far left wishes in that case, I just don't see that person high up in shaping Republican policy say hey listen these personhood bills are bad(even if it was on the basis bad in regards to helping us gain votes in the next election) and I am not pushing them.

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Old 03-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #528
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I believe that the people I am speaking of, will have a far more important, and far reaching impact on Republican policy in the future, than Harry Reid will have on Democrat policy....I stand by my statement.

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Old 04-14-2013, 05:27 PM   #529
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Philadelphia House of Horrors

***warning story/link is graphic***

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...olumn/2072577/

MSM being accused of not covering trial for political reasons.


ABC's Terry Moran: Kermit Gosnell is probably the most successful serial killer in the history of the world.

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/12/abcs-t...er-in-history/

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Old 04-14-2013, 05:34 PM   #530
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Philadelphia House of Horrors

***warning story/link is graphic***

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...olumn/2072577/

MSM being accused of not covering trial for political reasons.


ABC's Terry Moran: Kermit Gosnell is probably the most successful serial killer in the history of the world.

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/12/abcs-t...er-in-history/
So a doctor illegally performs abortions after the 24 week limit and that is somehow relevant to the should abortion be illegal or not debate how?

All I can say about the article is thank god for regulations(you know those things Republicans claim they hate and want to get rid of) put on abortion for 24 weeks


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Old 04-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #531
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It's just kind of ironic, because people say if abortion was illegal, this would happen.

I've noticed a media blackout on this.

The only difference between a late-term abortion and murder (in the eyes of the law) is the fetus / baby's location. It's rather disturbing.

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Old 04-14-2013, 06:41 PM   #532
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Philadelphia House of Horrors

***warning story/link is graphic***

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...olumn/2072577/

MSM being accused of not covering trial for political reasons.


ABC's Terry Moran: Kermit Gosnell is probably the most successful serial killer in the history of the world.

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/12/abcs-t...er-in-history/
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So a doctor illegally performs abortions after the 24 week limit and that is somehow relevant to the should abortion be illegal or not debate how?

All I can say about the article is thank god for regulations(you know those things Republicans claim they hate and want to get rid of) put on abortion for 24 weeks
Well considering the title of the thread is Discussion: Abortion NOT Discussion: Should abortion be illegal?....it fits the discussion topic perfectly.

I think the far more interesting twist to the story is how little the main stream media has reported on this.

Interesting story here: BUT I HAVE TO MAKE A WARNING, THE STORY IS VERY, VERY TOUGH TO READ....I HAD A HARD TIME GETTING THROUGH IT. But it is pretty telling on media and the coverage of the story.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ion-trial.html

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Old 04-14-2013, 06:55 PM   #533
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Planned Parenthood is a pretty sick organization.

Abortion industry brings in $100 million of income year...to much money riding on destruction of human life in name of feminism and sexual freedom.

This Gosnell case is logical conclusion of pro-abortion movement, there can't be any 'nonchalance' or neutrality to barbaric nature of this procedure.

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Old 04-14-2013, 06:56 PM   #534
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I think the far more interesting twist to the story is how little the main stream media has reported on this.
I personally detest local trials being made into big media spectacles(or shall I say getting Full coverage from Nancy Grace). All that being said I do think this deserves a bit more coverage then the barrage of "hot chick doing bad things" trials Nancy Grace has covered recently.

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This Gosnell case is logical conclusion of pro-abortion movement, there can't be any 'nonchalance' or neutrality to barbaric nature of this procedure.
Of coarse now a guy who does something illegal is an indictment against abortion. Simple fact is the guy broke the law and deserves to be punished accordingly. To turn this into anything related to an actual case for in the pro Life side is ridiculous, but I am fairly certain that won't stop people from doing it anyways.


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Old 04-14-2013, 07:13 PM   #535
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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I personally detest local trials being made into big media spectacles(or shall I say getting Full coverage from Nancy Grace). All that being said I do think this deserves a bit more coverage then the barrage of "hot chick doing bad things" trials Nancy Grace has covered recently.



Of coarse now a guy who does something illegal is an indictment against abortion. Simple fact is the guy broke the law and deserves to be punished accordingly. To turn this into anything related to an actual case for in the pro Life side is ridiculous, but I am fairly certain that won't stop people from doing it anyways.
I think it is a case against "late term abortions" definitely.....I am pro-choice myself, but I am vehemently against late term abortions...this was disgusting...

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Old 04-14-2013, 07:28 PM   #536
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I think it is a case against "late term abortions" definitely.....I am pro-choice myself, but I am vehemently against late term abortions...this was disgusting...
Problem is he did these abortions after 24 weeks, so it doesn't even make a case well maybe we should reduce the amount of weeks till.... argument since he wasn't doing stuff within the law

All that being said reducing the time you can have an abortion I do think is a fair debate(infact 24 weeks sound a bit to high, I would reduce it to 3 months going the the basis of my very limited knowledge of the birth process). My guess is the pro-life side wouldn't even come to the table for that though

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Old 04-14-2013, 11:18 PM   #537
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Problem is he did these abortions after 24 weeks, so it doesn't even make a case well maybe we should reduce the amount of weeks till.... argument since he wasn't doing stuff within the law

All that being said reducing the time you can have an abortion I do think is a fair debate(infact 24 weeks sound a bit to high, I would reduce it to 3 months going the the basis of my very limited knowledge of the birth process). My guess is the pro-life side wouldn't even come to the table for that though
I would go with 17 weeks. After that it should be illegal...that's just me.

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Old 04-15-2013, 06:39 AM   #538
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What this man did is something that Obama and the planned parenthood organization have openly promoted, Obama has voted against born alive protection for infants repeatedly and Planned Parenthood openly admitted to having no problem with doctors killing babies born alive from failed abortions in court recently.

The fact that this is even treated as a subjective issue is disgusting. Basic human biology tells us exactly when a human life begins, it's not remotely acceptable to kill someone after that regardless of how many weeks after it is.

When you have a society that embraces absolutely disgusting, selfish, destructive behavior as the norm, things like this are the natural result. This is what happens in a society that sugar-coats being in favor of a woman's 'right' (that's nowhere in the constitution and completely against the declaration of independence, btw) to murder her own child for her own benefit or convenience as being 'pro-choice.'

This is no worse than the type of things that regularly happen in planned infanticid...um, planned 'parenthood' clinics.

Anyone that says otherwise is either horribly misinformed or just blatantly lying. This organization breaks the law all the time is known for everything from helping pimps that are forcing abortions on underage girls to keeping open clinics that they know damn well aren't safe with 'doctors' they know damn well aren't qualified. The media conveniently goes out of their way to keep anything that endangers public perception of the abortion industry silent so most have know idea of the atrocities it regularly leads to.
We have a president that has pumped more taxpayer money into this vile organization than anyone in U.S. history and is perfectly fine with unrestricted abortion for profit, the media conveniently downplays that fact as well.

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Old 04-15-2013, 07:46 AM   #539
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I don't know why people treat human life as this sacred thing because it isn't. Hundreds of children have gotten bombed in the middle east and no one cares.

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Old 04-15-2013, 01:47 PM   #540
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Obama has voted against born alive protection for infants repeatedly
You do realize when bills come out alot of time they have wording in them that open a can of worms beyond what the title says

Let's say if I came out with "The USA is the best Country Act in the world Act" and in this act it says USA is the Greatest country but when you read into this act it says the government have the right to tap your phones to remain great. If somebody voted against this people who were against him would point to it and say, look this guy doesn't think the Country is so great completely ignoring any little points or wording within the act that the person disagrees with

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Old 05-04-2013, 07:26 PM   #541
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

Abortion is murder, and anyone who disagrees is a monster in my eyes. I don't care if that offends anyone or not, because your actions offend me wayyyy more.

The rationale of "it's a woman's body! You can't speak if you're not a woman" has made me angry ever since I first heard it. Oh? So you just got pregnant all by yourself? I believe 50% of the DNA and chromosomes come from a dad. Not to mention the fact that its NOT the woman's body, it's the baby's.

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Old 05-05-2013, 04:03 AM   #542
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It should be legal and it is in Canada, my gf and I got one because we weren't ready for a child. Women have the right to choose.

And no amount of name calling or backward christian opinions will change my view on it.

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Old 05-05-2013, 08:52 AM   #543
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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Abortion is murder, and anyone who disagrees is a monster in my eyes. I don't care if that offends anyone or not, because your actions offend me wayyyy more.
You will care, because you're not going to go around on this forum calling people who disagree with you "monsters". Discuss the act, not the people.

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:53 PM   #544
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You will care, because you're not going to go around on this forum calling people who disagree with you "monsters". Discuss the act, not the people.
I will agree with you that I have no reason to do so twice, but I'm not going to take it back either. Avoiding probation/being banned is nice, but I'm not going to lie.

Is it offensive to call Gosnell a monster, or just people on the board? Not being sarcastic or anything, just want to know for future reference.


Back on topic, I see abortion as similar to the holocaust. Granted, there are some differences. Babies don't understand they're about to die, and the death itself may be less painful or slow. But in terms of numbers, way more babies have been murdered. The doctors, women walking in, or Nazis responsible commit monstrous acts, and I personally do not approve.

I am surprised that America has ever allowed it, its just so.... Communist.

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:28 PM   #545
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I am surprised that America has ever allowed it, its just so.... Communist.
I would argue it's more every man for themselves capitalist, but that is just me

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Is it offensive to call Gosnell a monster, or just people on the board? Not being sarcastic or anything, just want to know for future reference
I assume you mean that doctor in Philly, sure why not but what he did was abort babies after the date the law says is ok

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:35 PM   #546
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To an extent its capitalist I suppose, but you're not supposed to profit off of it. America is supposed to guarantee certain rights, which I see as inconsistent with abortion. The value of human life seems much greater in America than in the Soviet Union or Maoist China. Abortion being the exception, although we at least don't FORCE abortions...usually....

Edit: it's not communist or capitalist, wasn't trying to imply that. I just meant those countries I'm not surprised abortion is legal, while I am surprised it is in America.

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #547
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

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I will agree with you that I have no reason to do so twice, but I'm not going to take it back either. Avoiding probation/being banned is nice, but I'm not going to lie.

Is it offensive to call Gosnell a monster, or just people on the board? Not being sarcastic or anything, just want to know for future reference.


Back on topic, I see abortion as similar to the holocaust. Granted, there are some differences. Babies don't understand they're about to die, and the death itself may be less painful or slow. But in terms of numbers, way more babies have been murdered. The doctors, women walking in, or Nazis responsible commit monstrous acts, and I personally do not approve.

I am surprised that America has ever allowed it, its just so.... Communist.
You are using a very large brush to paint people that are Pro-Choice...that is what Schlosser is getting at...calling Gosnell a monster has been done in articles, but to paint Pro-Choice people the same as him, that is offensive to them, I don't care if its your opinion or not, and that is personal to people posting on this board. You are entitled to your opinion ABOUT this issue, but keep it to that, not the people that post on this board. I would do the same for you as well....

Until someone can tell me exactly when the embryo is considered "alive" then that is up for speculation. Conception? (As the Bible says, if that is how you believe, that is your choice...and I would have a problem with people calling you names for that choice as well), is it in the first trimester, second, only the third....????? Those are questions, and the spectrum that we have... The babies in this case, it is obvious they were far beyond the point of being called alive, breathing etc, which is why he broke the law. Being Pro-Choice does not mean you are OK with what happened here, by a long shot...so painting all with that brush is not going to be tolerated.

It's just that simple, I don't care if you apologize or not, just do not post in that manner again...

And what does an Economic System have to do with it????? A man, in his practice did this...the government has said that he broke the law. Just because those laws have been broken, possibly for years by this man, does not negate the fact that he is on trial for breaking the law.

My hope as a Pro-Choice Independent voter is that this will bring about stricter laws in late term abortions. I would like to see none after the first trimester, unless the woman's life is in peril. I don't think that makes me a monster.... And contrary to how our President believes, if a baby is born alive, ANY AND ALL means to keep that baby alive is to be made. If the mother then wants to keep, or put up for adoption that baby, then so be it.

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:56 PM   #548
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Why is everyone assuming I'm a Christian? Not that you're wrong, but it has nothing to do with that. Can't I hate abortion because of principle? I know you, Kelly, didnt say that but some other guy did.

I also want to clear up that I did not mean to lump everyone with Gosnell. That was an afterthought question, I should have known a new paragraph doesn't mean a new idea.

I don't think it's up for debate when they're consider living. I mean, if a bacteria is alive, why wouldn't a fetus? The cells reproduce. it is in a state of change, it needs energy. Whether or not the fetus can be considered human... Well, it has human DNA even if its not shaped like one. That's a little more open for debate. But I don't think anyone could say it (whatever you consider "it" to be) straight not living.


A question: taking the morning after pill Before or immediately after sex prevents conception, right? I heard that a long time ago. If that is the case, I hope people who don't want kids take that into consideration.

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #549
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Why is everyone assuming I'm a Christian? Not that you're wrong, but it has nothing to do with that. Can't I hate abortion because of principle? I know you, Kelly, didnt say that but some other guy did.

I also want to clear up that I did not mean to lump everyone with Gosnell. That was an afterthought question, I should have known a new paragraph doesn't mean a new idea.

I don't think it's up for debate when they're consider living. I mean, if a bacteria is alive, why wouldn't a fetus? The cells reproduce. it is in a state of change, it needs energy. Whether or not the fetus can be considered human... Well, it has human DNA even if its not shaped like one. That's a little more open for debate. But I don't think anyone could say it (whatever you consider "it" to be) straight not living.


A question: taking the morning after pill Before or immediately after sex prevents conception, right? I heard that a long time ago. If that is the case, I hope people who don't want kids take that into consideration.
I did not say you were a Christian, I simply said...IF that is how you believe, that is perfectly fine....if you aren't? ok....then what is your scientific basis for when the first breath is taken? Or when the embryo becomes a baby? Alive, etc... I would certainly respect your opinion if you felt it was at conception, but if not...that is ok as well.

As far as Plan B??????? I still have problems with a 15 year old being able to buy it over the counter, (it's the teacher in me I guess), but I would certainly hope women would take that into consideration.

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Old 05-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #550
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Default Re: Discussion: Abortion II

I also want to know why calling abortionists monsters is considered offensive, but saying that some Christian beliefs are "backwards" is not. Canada and the U.S. both have freedom of religion in their basic constitutions, but nothing on abortion, which to me indicates not being persecuted for your religion is more important than being allowed to abort babies. And yet no one bats an eye.

I respectfully accept my warning and realize why it had to happen, and the mods are just doing their jobs. But I don't think it was completely fair, because even if I did call a large group of people monsters first, Leetank still did the same basic "crime".

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