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Old 04-18-2013, 09:34 PM   #801
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Ask yourself what you didn't like about Ultimate Cap. If the answer in any way references the original Cap, you've just proved my point.

I'm telling you, comic fanboys are their own worst enemy. They're literally killing what they love out of devotion (and I'm only talking about the comics medium here, not the movies).
You didn't answer anything I asked you...

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Old 04-18-2013, 09:45 PM   #802
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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You didn't answer anything I asked you...
You referenced characters being INO, and what I'm saying is that even making that claim shows that you're still clinging to a notion of what Cap should be.

As for CotT, it's not the same thing. I'm only talking about the comics world. It's a different case with movies, so that's why I ignored it.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:06 PM   #803
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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You referenced characters being INO, and what I'm saying is that even making that claim shows that you're still clinging to a notion of what Cap should be.

As for CotT, it's not the same thing. I'm only talking about the comics world. It's a different case with movies, so that's why I ignored it.
So, according to your train of thought, we could get a new comic tomorrow with a guy dressed in a all black leather outfit who is a power hungry jerk of a character, and if they call him Captain America, well... that's just ok and you accept it as the new Captain America? .. That just makes no sense... I would think that you have a line you cross at some point where you don't accept it. Our lines are just different. And the CotT is the same type scenario, which is why I brought it up.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:20 PM   #804
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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So, according to your train of thought, we could get a new comic tomorrow with a guy dressed in a all black leather outfit who is a power hungry jerk of a character, and if they call him Captain America, well... that's just ok and you accept it as the new Captain America? .. That just makes no sense... I would think that you have a line you cross at some point where you don't accept it. Our lines are just different. And the CotT is the same type scenario, which is why I brought it up.
No, that's not what I'm getting at. If I had my way, there wouldn't be another Captain America comic, 616 or not. There would be a brand new comic starring a brand new character.

And I'm not just picking on Cap here. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Thor... Let 'em go. Send them out with the best stories you can and let 'em go.

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Old 04-18-2013, 10:41 PM   #805
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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No, that's not what I'm getting at. If I had my way, there wouldn't be another Captain America comic, 616 or not. There would be a brand new comic starring a brand new character.

And I'm not just picking on Cap here. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Thor... Let 'em go. Send them out with the best stories you can and let 'em go.
I agree with that... that's kinda of what I said a few posts back... so not sure how this relates back to the new suit though,... lol

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:07 AM   #806
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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You think the letters "SHH" stand for France?!
Detour here, but:

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

Detour is now over; we rejoin the traffic jam already in progress

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:35 AM   #807
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Detour here, but:

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

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Yeah.

I similarly groaned his attempt at showing Cap being clever and saying that the highest ranking Black officer during WWII was a Captain.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:57 AM   #808
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Detour here, but:

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

Detour is now over; we rejoin the traffic jam already in progress
Fanwank counterpoint: Ultimate Cap knew damn well the French Resistance was a bunch of hardasses (he fought with them, after all) and was making a statement about the French government, not the people themselves.

Conclusion: Millar's an idiot either way, but it makes Ultimate Cap look a little better. Maybe.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:15 AM   #809
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Fanwank counterpoint: Ultimate Cap knew damn well the French Resistance was a bunch of hardasses (he fought with them, after all) and was making a statement about the French government, not the people themselves.

Conclusion: Millar's an idiot either way, but it makes Ultimate Cap look a little better. Maybe.
Good take on it. Made me almost reconsider hating that line. But only almost...

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:49 AM   #810
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

Or that Steve Rogers is actually a sensitive, and sympathetic individual and doesn't say garbage like that. Just like he wouldn't kick Bruce Banner like that either.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:53 AM   #811
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Or that Steve Rogers is actually a sensitive, and sympathetic individual and doesn't say garbage like that. Just like he wouldn't kick Bruce Banner like that either.
Ultimate Steve isn't 616 Steve.

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Old 04-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #812
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

Ah the Ultimate universe where Hulk is a cannibal and Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver practise incest

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Old 04-19-2013, 11:28 AM   #813
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Didn't work for who? Every reader is different. I had no problem with Ult. Cap. He had a different personality than mainstream Cap...no big deal.
I agree. Millars original Ultimate run had a few misses, Caps personality chage was not one of them. Nazis being controlled by the Chitauri was a bigger issue for me. One has to accept than in a different universe under different circumstances personalities develop differently. It's basically like Spocks anger issues in NuTrek

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:50 PM   #814
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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I agree. Millars original Ultimate run had a few misses, Caps personality chage was not one of them. Nazis being controlled by the Chitauri was a bigger issue for me. One has to accept than in a different universe under different circumstances personalities develop differently. It's basically like Spocks anger issues in NuTrek
Not sure why you think that about Cap since Sam clealry pointed out a major error in that representation. Also, Spock doesnt have any different anger issues than what he had in the original series. When his family dies, he gets emotional, that's his human half.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #815
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Ah the Ultimate universe where Hulk is a cannibal and Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver practise incest
It's like Marvel accidentally employed a bunch of deviants but couldn't get rid of them because of some kind of employment protection. So they put them all to work on one section where they could entertain their perversions, but it would be fairly self contained, or so Marvel hoped.

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Old 04-19-2013, 03:43 PM   #816
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Not sure why you think that about Cap since Sam clealry pointed out a major error in that representation.
He pointed out an error in Millar's research maybe but that has nothing to do with Ult. Cap having a different personality that mainstream Cap.

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Old 04-19-2013, 08:37 PM   #817
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Detour here, but:

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

Detour is now over; we rejoin the traffic jam already in progress
He's not an idiot. Millar wrote him as a parody of those kind of ultra-patriotic 'murica goobers.

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Old 04-20-2013, 12:52 AM   #818
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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He's not an idiot. Millar wrote him as a parody of those kind of ultra-patriotic 'murica goobers.
Parody doesn't supersede common sense and historical logic. To repeat: Captain America --- whether Ultimate or 616 --- fought alongside plenty of hardcore French Resistance fighters, and knew them to be courageous above and beyond the call of duty. The perception of France by the US in 1943 is vastly different than the perception in 2002, and it makes absolutely no sense for a WWII-based Cap to suddenly adopt the French-bashing mentality of this century.

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Old 04-20-2013, 12:57 AM   #819
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

I really wonder when we're going to get our first glimpses of WS and Falcon.

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:11 AM   #820
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I really wonder when we're going to get our first glimpses of WS and Falcon.
Anthony Mackie isn't shooting yet, being busy with Pain and Gain press events.

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:22 AM   #821
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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Anthony Mackie isn't shooting yet, being busy with Pain and Gain press events.
I know he's not since he was just on Jimmy Kimmel. Just wondering when we'll see him in the Falcon suit. He looks to have slimmed down from where he was in Pain and Gain but not too noticeably. It'll be interesting how close the Falcon suit is to the concept art that was released.

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:33 AM   #822
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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I know he's not since he was just on Jimmy Kimmel. Just wondering when we'll see him in the Falcon suit. He looks to have slimmed down from where he was in Pain and Gain but not too noticeably. It'll be interesting how close the Falcon suit is to the concept art that was released.
He said in a pretty recent interview that the concept art they released was essentially what the costume would look like.

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Old 04-20-2013, 03:03 AM   #823
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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I know he's not since he was just on Jimmy Kimmel. Just wondering when we'll see him in the Falcon suit. He looks to have slimmed down from where he was in Pain and Gain but not too noticeably. It'll be interesting how close the Falcon suit is to the concept art that was released.
I'd imagine most of the Falcon's footage would be filmed on a soundstage.

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Old 04-20-2013, 03:21 AM   #824
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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I'd imagine most of the Falcon's footage would be filmed on a soundstage.
I'd also think we won't see much of the filming until they get to Cleveland in May.

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Old 04-20-2013, 03:40 AM   #825
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 3

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well they made it sound as tho both IM3 and Thor2 are a year out from Avengers
So it's entirely possible Cap2 will be 2 years out, tho that would be a large time gap
Not if he make subtle appearances in Thor and IM3 as in a newspaper with Jane and Eric or, or blurb from Jarvis on the internet

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