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Old 04-21-2013, 09:43 PM   #76
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

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There is this line in Batman Begins that I just can't stand. I almost have to fast forward the film just so that I could skip it because it annoys me every time I see it. Basically, in the scene where Bruce wakes up and Fox tells him he developed an antidote and then gives him some complex science explanation to how he created the antidote, Bruce replies saying "Am I supposed to understand any of that?" And right there I just want to walk up to Nolan's Batman and say "Yes! Yes, you're supposed to understand every word of that because you're The Goddamn Batman and you trained your body and mind to perfection so that you could understand **** like that in such crisis! What the **** were you doing for 7 years?"
I strongly agree with this. That was a face palm moment for me when I saw BB for the first time. It was bad enough Fox was the one to find an antidote (Heck Batman from TAS still went after Scarecrow while infected with fear toxins), but explaining how he came up with it to Bruce. And making Bruce come off like an idiot in the process was an insult to the character, imo.

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Old 04-21-2013, 09:47 PM   #77
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

Funny...I always took that scene as Bruce playing dumb in front of Fox. Notice how his entire demeanor changes the second he realizes that Fox is there.

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Old 04-21-2013, 09:56 PM   #78
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

By that point Bruce already knows Fox knows,He changed his demeanor at first cause he knew he got busted as Batman

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Old 04-21-2013, 09:59 PM   #79
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

Idk earlier Fox told Bruce to not take him for an idiot. At that point he already seen through Wayne's facade. It doesn't make sense for Bruce to act like an bimbo in front of him. Fox already know Bruce's using Wayne tech for his personal means than "cave diving" and such.

Edit: LuisTX85 beat me to it.

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:23 PM   #80
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

Elevator Man and LuisTX85 brought up what I was going to say about Fox telling Bruce to not take him for an idiot earlier on in the movie and Bruce saying ok. Another thing we have to remember is that Bruce then asked Lucius to make more antidotes. If he was just pretending to be an idiot and secretly knew how to make something like that, why didn't he just ask Lucius what he used in the antidote so that he could make more of them for future encounters with Scarecrow? That would've been smarter since Lucius making more would bring Lucius a step closer to figuring out that Bruce is Batman. If he was really able to make the antidote on his own, I don't think he would've asked Lucius to make more.

I think Nolan nailed all aspects of Batman in BB and TDK except for how intelligent he is supposed to be. TDK and TDKR did fix that a bit with Bruce building the big sonar machine and the clean energy bomb but overall, Batman's intelligence is severely underplayed in the Nolan films. This is also the main reason why I can't see Nolan's Batman in a JL movie.

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:25 PM   #81
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

Yeah, but it's all still very "don't ask don't tell" at that point. I dunno, I suppose you guys are probably right but that scene never particularly bothered me because it's all very jokey between the two of them and it's hard to pinpoint what is part of Bruce's facade and what isn't. With Bruce's other line about being out "looking for kicks" it still seemed like he was trying to keep up the facade even if just as a way of joking around with Fox.

But yes, I agree Bruce's intelligence was toned down for these movies, not disputing that. Although in the process, they crafted a great role for Lucius in the mythos and I enjoyed all of Bale and Freeman's scenes together in the trilogy.

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:51 PM   #82
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
Elevator Man and LuisTX85 brought up what I was going to say about Fox telling Bruce to not take him for an idiot earlier on in the movie and Bruce saying ok. Another thing we have to remember is that Bruce then asked Lucius to make more antidotes. If he was just pretending to be an idiot and secretly knew how to make something like that, why didn't he just ask Lucius what he used in the antidote so that he could make more of them for future encounters with Scarecrow? That would've been smarter since Lucius making more would bring Lucius a step closer to figuring out that Bruce is Batman. If he was really able to make the antidote on his own, I don't think he would've asked Lucius to make more.

I think Nolan nailed all aspects of Batman in BB and TDK except for how intelligent he is supposed to be. TDK and TDKR did fix that a bit with Bruce building the big sonar machine and the clean energy bomb but overall, Batman's intelligence is severely underplayed in the Nolan films. This is also the main reason why I can't see Nolan's Batman in a JL movie.
Bruce wouldn't have gotten the idea to build a sonar machine if Fox didn't make that small sonar device for him to apprehend Lao in TDK. Fox pulled a Cobb (from Inception) and implanted the idea in Bruce's head. "Like a uh--" "Sonar Mr. Wayne"

Eventhough Bruce and Fox had one moment together in Batman: Earth One. I liked it better than the way Nolan trilogy handled the gadget stuff.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I'm talking about when Wayne went to Fox for help to fix his speargun. Bruce already put it together himself but it was faulty, when he used it for the first time. He had Fox fix it. And even used the same excuse BB did, which was he needed the speargun for spelunking.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:26 PM   #83
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

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Bruce wouldn't have gotten the idea to build a sonar machine if Fox didn't make that small sonar device for him to apprehend Lao in TDK. Fox pulled a Cobb (from Inception) and implanted the idea in Bruce's head. "Like a uh--" "Sonar Mr. Wayne"

Eventhough Bruce and Fox had one moment together in Batman: Earth One. I liked it better than the way Nolan trilogy handled the gadget stuff.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I'm talking about when Wayne went to Fox for help to fix his speargun. Bruce already put it together himself but it was faulty, when he used it for the first time. He had Fox fix it. And even used the same excuse BB did, which was he needed the speargun for spelunking.
True. However, I still think the Sonar machine was a major accomplishment for Bruce. Even Fox was impressed with what he did.

I personally didn't like that moment in Earth One. I wasn't a fan of the idea that Bruce can't even fix one of his basic gadgets without Fox (at least Nolan's Batman seems like he can). The fact that Fox is younger too makes it worse IMO.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:52 PM   #84
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

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True. However, I still think the Sonar machine was a major accomplishment for Bruce. Even Fox was impressed with what he did.

I personally didn't like that moment in Earth One. I wasn't a fan of the idea that Bruce can't even fix one of his basic gadgets without Fox (at least Nolan's Batman seems like he can). The fact that Fox is younger too makes it worse IMO.
I see your point. I sort of agree that Bruce should be able to fix a basic gadget he created. Nolan's Batman probably needs Fox to build and fix his gadgets. Since I never seen Nolan's Batman fix any of his gadgets in the trilogy. I just prefer that Earth One moment over Nolan's b/c he didn't rely on Lucius to make his gadgets all the time like he was Q or something. Plus I let it slide b/c B:E1 is an elseworlds story and Batman was starting out in that comic.


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Old 05-21-2013, 02:47 PM   #85
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

Fix your title please, should be "than" not "then" and then I shall say that Nolan's version was the first time I ever saw Batman done the correct way. As close as we could ever get to a realistic Batman brought to life on the big screen. Burton's may have been campy fun that I could enjoy if I turned my brain off, just a step above Adam West walking up horizontal walls, but Schumacher's fiascoes were just plain craptastic in line with the old tv show's POW!s and BAM!s.

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Old 05-22-2013, 12:45 AM   #86
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Default Re: Nolan wasnt any more "faithful" then Tim Burton

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I see your point. I sort of agree that Bruce should be able to fix a basic gadget he created. Nolan's Batman probably needs Fox to build and fix his gadgets. Since I never seen Nolan's Batman fix any of his gadgets in the trilogy. I just prefer that Earth One moment over Nolan's b/c he didn't rely on Lucius to make his gadgets all the time like he was Q or something. Plus I let it slide b/c B:E1 is an elseworlds story and Batman was starting out in that comic.
Isn't every Batman movie an elseworlds story put on screen instead of a book?

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