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Old 04-19-2013, 06:10 PM   #776
wiegeabo
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

psh, tell me this doesn't turn you gay




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Old 04-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #777
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

That's not fair.

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Old 04-19-2013, 07:23 PM   #778
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Now that's my kind of heat vision!

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Old 04-19-2013, 10:17 PM   #779
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

He don't need no heat vision to melt you.

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Old 04-20-2013, 09:03 AM   #780
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

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Originally Posted by wiegeabo View Post
The Boy Scouts executive committee is proposing to lift the ban on gay scouts, but maintain the ban on gay scout leaders.
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Originally Posted by Schlosser85 View Post
What kind of sense does that make?
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Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
I can probably tell you the conversations they have had in their meetings...

If the kid just "thinks" he is gay we have the opportunity to change him, influence him, etc.......if the leader is gay, that opportunity is lost.

I can guarantee you that is conversations they have had.....makes perfect sense to them.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the conversations they have had on this issue are like Kelly's description.

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Old 04-20-2013, 03:51 PM   #781
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Upd...yInsideMonitor

This should be an interesting ruling.

“If a business provides a product or service to opposite-sex couples for their weddings, then it must provide same-sex couples the same product or service.”

Now I can only assume that churches don't qualify as businesses.

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Old 04-21-2013, 08:29 AM   #782
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

If such businesses weren't so stubborn, they might be successful at arguing they are discriminating lawfully due to the nature of the event or the nature of the request, rather than the customers themselves. i.e. We serve gay and straight customers equally. We would not take money from a heterosexual customer for a same-sex wedding, likewise we would not do so for a gay customer either.

Of course, for some reason they never go for that argument, it's always about my right to discriminate against people, which is a non-winner.

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Old 04-21-2013, 09:03 AM   #783
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

At first I was baffled, because the Consumer Protection Act deals with creditors and not discrimination. Once I read the article a bit more carefully, I realized that it will probably be a pretty open and shut case. There are no Civil Rights Act violations as the legislature does not specify sexual orientation in the CRA and the Court has yet to interpret it as granting homosexuals and lesbians status as a protected class. However, the Court has been pretty liberal in allowing states to deal with private discrimination however they see fit. If the Washington statute prohibits it, the florist is probably out of luck. That's not to say that she cannot discriminate against homosexuals. She probably just won't be able to admit that he is discriminating for that reason.

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Old 04-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #784
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

To be fair, a person/company should have the right to sell and not sell to whoever they want for whatever reason they want.

The trade-off, though, is that the same goes for buyers. And people don't have to buy from someone, and can raise hell over their selling practices, and punish them for it monetarily.

So, as Matt said, a smart person would never admit to their discriminating sales. But, it isn't that hard to spot those kinds of practices anyway, especially with small businesses.

A smarter person just wouldn't go through with those practices. They may not like it, but if they care about their business, they'll avoid the bad press and loss of money.

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:55 PM   #785
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

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To be fair, a person/company should have the right to sell and not sell to whoever they want for whatever reason they want.
No, they shouldn't. Let's say you live in a small town where the only grocery store is the one in town and the next closest one is 50 miles away. If that store owner is allowed to refuse you service because your screen name is weigeabo, he's forcing you to drive a hundred miles just to buy food for your family.

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:58 PM   #786
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

True. But you are asking them to provide a specific service to a specific event.

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:07 PM   #787
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

I'd be gathering the people of the town together against that owner. Because, in a town that small, can the owner really afford to lose even a couple of customers?

Worse comes to worse, I'd move. Because if the people in the town don't have a problem with it, I wouldn't want to live there anyway.

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:32 PM   #788
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I'd be gathering the people of the town together against that owner.
They don't like you. You're the odd man out.

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:35 PM   #789
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Then like I said, I'd move. I've got better things to do then put up with that.

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:40 PM   #790
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

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I'd be gathering the people of the town together against that owner.
Nobody trusts you anymore, after that whole Frankenstein debacle last week.

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:40 PM   #791
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Well guess who sold me all the equipment? The store owner.

So who's the real bad guy here?!

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Old 04-21-2013, 07:21 PM   #792
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Not everyone has the means or ability to move, especially if they live in a small town. This is made even worse by the fact that businesses can legally fire a person for being gay so that's even less money in order to make a move.

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Old 04-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #793
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Well to be fair, she didn't refuse their business, just their request to provide flowers for their wedding.

So it's more like the grocery store selling you groceries, but refusing to - cater your wedding?

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Old 04-22-2013, 12:09 AM   #794
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiegeabo View Post
The Boy Scouts executive committee is proposing to lift the ban on gay scouts, but maintain the ban on gay scout leaders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlosser85 View Post
What kind of sense does that make?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
I can probably tell you the conversations they have had in their meetings...

If the kid just "thinks" he is gay we have the opportunity to change him, influence him, etc.......if the leader is gay, that opportunity is lost.

I can guarantee you that is conversations they have had.....makes perfect sense to them.
It seems rather obvious to me that their chief (and horribly misguided) concern is the risk of molestation.

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Old 04-22-2013, 11:53 AM   #795
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

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Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Well to be fair, she didn't refuse their business, just their request to provide flowers for their wedding.

So it's more like the grocery store selling you groceries, but refusing to - cater your wedding?
Huh? She certainly did refuse their business. They offered to pay her for her service and she refused based on their sexuality. I don't think it really matters if she still let them come into her store and buy her plants (which makes her look like a complete, hypocritical idiot, btw).

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Old 04-22-2013, 04:16 PM   #796
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

You're missing the distinction. She's refusing to provide services for a specific event. It's not quite the same as barring someone from your store because they are gay.

The court case will be interesting. Though, destroying a small business may not be the best PR move right now, so maybe they'll settle.

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Old 04-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #797
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Thundercrack has a point there. There is the doctrine of "service normally made available to the public" (not sure if it exists in the US, but surely some lawyer can try to import it). A business owner can discriminate against actions, not people. i.e. If I own a catering company, I theoretically can refuse to cater a wedding between two people of the same gender. My policy is completely equal: I would refuse to do such business regardless of whether or not a straight or a gay person asked me to do it. Therefore it is not discrimination.

Now, I do believe that the opposing side it partly to blame by, from what I can see, not using this argument. The argument of the anti side, plus civil libertarians on this specific issue, is that all businesses should be able to refuse to offer even their normal services to somebody purely for what they are, whether gay, Asian, hispanic, black, female, Muslim, whatever. Whether you agree with that pure free market argument or not, it is pretty much a non-starter in almost all Western democracies, so anybody who tries this argument pretty much deserves the results they get.

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Old 04-22-2013, 06:05 PM   #798
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

i just find it amusing that a guy who sells flowers.... is up in arms about a couple of us homos...

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Old 04-22-2013, 08:01 PM   #799
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

Apparently it's an old lady who is super religious.

Personally, I wouldn't refuse anyone service, not because I'm particularly pro gay marriage, or even because of the law, it's just good business.

It kind of reminded me of that bakery that refused to make rainbow cupcakes for some gay thing (I forget what the event was).

I'd sell cupcakes to the Westboro Baptist Church if they paid me. Money is money. Though I would probably insist they pay up front.

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Old 04-22-2013, 08:03 PM   #800
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights XIII

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Apparently it's an old lady who is super religious.

Personally, I wouldn't refuse anyone service, not because I'm particularly pro gay marriage, or even because of the law, it's just good business.

It kind of reminded me of that bakery that refused to make rainbow cupcakes for some gay thing (I forget what the event was).

I'd sell cupcakes to the Westboro Baptist Church if they paid me. Money is money. Though I would probably insist they pay up front.
oh, i heard of a guy doing it a month or so ago, figured this was the same story. my bad

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