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Old 04-11-2013, 11:29 PM   #101
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013)

Well again, a lot of people who voted for her are dead.

Obviously some people liked her. She was elected and reelected twice in landslides.

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Old 04-12-2013, 01:48 AM   #102
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Well again, a lot of people who voted for her are dead.

Obviously some people liked her. She was elected and reelected twice in landslides.
Or she was running against nincompoops.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:41 AM   #103
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So did the people who are openly lambasting her now that she's dead do so while she was alive, so she at least knew about it?

I have no dog in the fight, just curious.
Thatcher knew full well what people thought of her when she was alive.

There was rioting in the streets, picketing, protests and so on throughout her time in office.

If you look at alot of British televison, film, art, books, music, newspapers and culture in general of her time in office it clearly reflected peoples views of thatcher. Even british people who were not even alive when she was in office know the mood, effects and views of her time as Prime Minister. Its ingrained into our culture.

People have not just started say this stuff because she is dead.

Its not just people on the left either. There were many people on the right who didn't like her or agree with her. Alot of these old Conservatives coming out of the woodwork saying nice things about her now she is dead had not a kind word to say about her when she was alive. She was ousted form her own party eventually after all.

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Well again, a lot of people who voted for her are dead.

Obviously some people liked her. She was elected and reelected twice in landslides.
The Labour Party in the 1980s were unelectable. If they were in any decent shape she might not of won so easily.

Thatchers second term was off the back of the Falklands. Her handling of that conflict won her a temporary bump in popularity.

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Old 04-12-2013, 07:45 AM   #104
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013)

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So did the people who are openly lambasting her now that she's dead do so while she was alive, so she at least knew about it?

I have no dog in the fight, just curious.
They most definitely did, and she simply didn't care.

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Old 04-12-2013, 11:39 AM   #105
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013)

Do you think she still got the last laugh, so to speak, by not being properly 'disgraced' during her living years? Or did she at least face up somehow?

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:21 PM   #106
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Dunno if anyone's seen this but it popped up on my FB so I thought i'd share

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...w-8569691.html

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The BBC was accused of caving in to pressure and censoring the will of record-buyers after ruling that it would broadcast just five seconds of "Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead" during Sunday’s chart run-down.
Tony Hall, the new BBC Director-General, approved a “compromise” which will prevent the song, which is heading towards the number one slot after being adopted as a posthumous protest by opponents of Lady Thatcher, being aired in full by Radio 1.
Instead a five-second clip will be played during a special news report, broadcast during Sunday’s Top 40 Chart Show, presented by Jameela Jamil, explaining why a song from 1930s film The Wizard Of Oz had made the charts. The song itself is only 51 seconds long.
Ben Cooper, Radio 1 Controller who made the announcement, said the decision was “a compromise and it is a difficult compromise to come to.”
The executive said he has yet to decide whether the words “Ding dong the witch is dead” will actually appear within the report, which will explain to listeners why Lady Thatcher was so divisive and the subject of a “hate campaign”.
Mr Cooper will also decide on Sunday whether to air a pro-Thatcher punk song, “I’m in love with Margaret Thatcher”, if it maintains its current charge towards the Top 40.
Facing his first, full-brown “crisis” just ten days after taking over a BBC reeling from the Savile crisis, Lord Hall of Birkenhead took the final decision following an the internal debate over whether the song should be aired.
With 35,000 download sales by Friday, "Ding Dong" is heading for the top three and, as its notoriety increases, is now tipped for the top spot.
Former colleagues of Lady Thatcher, allied with newspapers most protective of her memory, said it would be “tasteless” and “offensive” for the BBC to play the song days before her funeral and urged a “ban”.
Lord Hall of Birkenhead said: “I personally believe (the campaign) is distasteful and inappropriate. I do believe it would be wrong to ban the song outright as free speech is an important principle and a ban would only give it more publicity.
“We have agreed that we won't be playing the song in full, rather treating it as a news story and playing a short extract to put it in context.”
Under BBC guidelines, the corporation musn’t air “anything that, in the light of events, might cause unjustifiable offence as judged against generally accepted standards.”
But the BBC must also provide a factual account of the nation’s weekly music choices. Executives asked whether the likely teenage audience for the Top 40 rundown would be offended.
As private hopes that the Judy Garland song would drift down the charts by Sunday faded, BBC executives came up with a compromise. A Newsbeat reporter might explain on-air why the song, not play-listed by Radio 1, was so high in the charts to the 16 to 24-year-olds listening, who would be too young to remember when Lady Thatcher was in office.
Ben Cooper said he was “caught between a rock and a hard place”. The Radio 1 boss said: “Nobody at Radio 1 wishes to cause offence but nor do I believe that we can ignore the song in the chart show, which is traditionally a formal record of the biggest selling singles of the week. That in turn means that all songs in the chart become an historic fact.
“I’ve therefore decided exceptionally that we should treat the rise of the song, based as it is on a political campaign to denigrate Lady Thatcher’s memory, as a news story.
“So we will play a brief excerpt of it in a short news report during the show which explains to our audience why a 70-year-old song is at the top of the charts. Most of them are too young to remember Lady Thatcher and many will be baffled by the sound of the Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz.
“To ban the record from our airwaves completely would risk giving the campaign the oxygen of further publicity and might inflame an already delicate situation.”
The ban prompted a fresh Twitter campaign urging people to buy the song in defence of “free speech”.
On tweet read: “I wasn't going to do it before but I am now going to buy #DingDong. The pathetic #BBC censorship is far worse than the song itself.”
The compromise was an error, said Mark Stephens, the leading media lawyer, said: “I think they should play the song. She was a controversial figure and its chart position represents the views of a section of the community. It will undoubtedly cause offence to some people but probably not to the Radio 1 audience.”
Several Thatcher supporters, including the former Conservative MP Louise Mensch, said the BBC ought to air the song. “Thatcher stood for freedom,” she tweeted.
Nigel Farage, UKIP leader, said the campaign was distasteful but “if you ban a record you make a huge, huge mistake.”
The Telegraph columnist Toby Young said a ban would be “an insult to the memory of Margaret Thatcher” who was “a warrior in the cause of liberty”.
Andrew Collins, the Radio Times columnist, accused the BBC of “caving in” to outside pressure.
John Whittingdale MP, Chair of the Commons media select committee, backed the BBC compromise. He said: “I don't think it would have been right to have allowed the Chart Show to have been hijacked for political purposes and had they played the whole song that would have been the consequence.”
Senior BBC executives believed that a ban could leave the corporation vulnerable to future cases where special interest or religious groups may call for broadcasts to be banned on grounds of taste.
"Ding Dong" joins a list of chart-toppers which the BBC refused to play, including "God Save The Queen", the Sex Pistols’ 1977 blast at the Silver Jubilee and Je t'aime… moi non-plus, Serge Gainsbourg’s explicit duet with Jane Birkin.
Lord Hall will hope to escape further controversy after taking steps to ensure the BBC’s coverage of Lady Thatcher’s funeral does not repeat the mistakes of the last ceremonial occasion that the corporation covered, the Diamond Jubilee Thames flotilla.
Veteran David Dimbleby, who led the BBC’s coverage of Princess Diana’s funeral in 1997 and the Queen Mother's funeral in 2001, will anchor the three-hour BBC1 broadcast, from a studio overlooking St Paul’s Cathedral.
Dimbleby will wear black tie, the BBC said, in contrast to the BBC news presenters including Huw Edwards, who reported Lady Thatcher’s death and Sky News’ anchor for the funeral, Dermot Murnaghan, who will wear “sombre” attire but not black tie.
Tess Daly and Fearne Cotton, criticised for their role in the “lightweight” flotilla coverage, will not speak to the crowds lining the route on this occasion. BBC News anchors Sophie Raworth and Mishal Husain will provide the additional reporting.
Whilst the BBC will cover the funeral procession leaving the Palace of Westminster to the end of the service at St Paul’s Cathedral, ITV will rely on This Morning presenters Holly Willoughby and Phillip Schofield to guide its viewers through the key moments of the morning’s ceremonial events.




I'm actually pretty disgusted by this decision in terms of freedom of speech.

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Old 04-12-2013, 02:44 PM   #107
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013)

Its nothing new the BBC has always been quick to ban anything that causes offence

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Old 04-12-2013, 02:51 PM   #108
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Do you think she still got the last laugh, so to speak, by not being properly 'disgraced' during her living years? Or did she at least face up somehow?
As far as she was concerned she never did anything disgraceful'. The lives she ruined, the communities destroyed? Disposable collateral damage in her quest to crush the unions and deliberately impoverish the North for the benefit of the wealthy in the South.

So no, in life she never faced up to anything, as it would take an acceptance from her that she was at fault. Her ego, arrogance and utter contempt for those she wronged would never allow for that.

And yes, I would say she is having the last laugh: She is getting a 'virtual' State Funeral thanks to the current Tory Toadies in power (her Children indeed), at an estimated cost of £10 million pounds to the tax payers.

Yes, in spite of the considerable wealth of her own family, including her proven criminal son, our money is paying for that witch to get a send off usually reserved for royalty or figures who actually deserved it.

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Old 04-12-2013, 02:56 PM   #109
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Yeah, s**t sandwich for the UK.

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Old 04-12-2013, 02:58 PM   #110
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As far as she was concerned she never did anything disgraceful'. The lives she ruined, the communities destroyed? Disposable collateral damage in her quest to crush the unions and deliberately impoverish the North for the benefit of the wealthy in the South.

So no, in life she never faced up to anything, as it would take an acceptance from her that she was at fault. Her ego, arrogance and utter contempt for those she wronged would never allow for that.

And yes, I would say she is having the last laugh: She is getting a 'virtual' State Funeral thanks to the current Tory Toadies in power (her Children indeed), at an estimated cost of £10 million pounds to the tax payers.

Yes, in spite of the considerable wealth of her own family, including her proven criminal son, our money is paying for that witch to get a send off usually reserved for royalty or figures who actually deserved it.
Well said... it's all kinds of wrong.

A few of my friends will be attending the protest (I dunno if you guys have seen, they're organising a protest in which everyone simply turns their backs on Thatcher's casket).

But i'm genuinely worried it's just gonna turn into another thug riot People are already so wound up because of the bedroom tax and cuts in taxes for the rich, this seems like an obvious outlet for them to show their rage.

For anyone who hadn't seen:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nearly 3,000 people have joined Facebook group "Maggie's Good Riddance Party", which claims it will hold a "right jolly knees up" outside St Paul's on the day of Baroness Thatcher's funeral.

The protesters wish to "get their money's worth" from the funeral, which will be paid for in part by the state.

Those attending include a civil servant at the Department of Work and Pensions, a carer and a branch leader of the National Union of Students. Some warned of "civil unrest".

Police have said anyone wanting to hold peaceful demonstrations in London on the day of the funeral will not be prevented from doing so, but urged organisers to contact the Metropolitan Police in advance.

The protesters plan to line the streets where Baroness Thatcher's funeral carriage will pass, particularly outside the cathedral, so they can turn their backs on the coffin as it goes by.

Any protest, and ensuing confrontation with the police, will be watched by millions of television viewers around the world.
Lois Davis, a member of the group, advised protesters to stand along the funeral procession so "Thatcher's children" could turn away from the casket.
This would also make it difficult for police to "find a hotspot to kettle or disperse" because they would be dispersed along the route, she added.
The group is organised by Dominic Francis, a Oxford Brookes University student from Tunbridge Wells.
He said the protesters risked being likened to the Westboro Baptist Church, the American fundamentalist organisation that has picketed the funerals of US troops.
He said he was raised to "value compassion, love and forgiveness" and had some reservations about protesting. But, he said, Baroness Thatcher's role in public life meant she and her mourners had no right to be left in peace. He said he opposed Lady Thatcher for, amongst other reasons, opposing the re-unification of Germany and increasing VAT.
But he went on: "Margaret Thatcher's choice to enter the public arena negates her of any of the protection from vilification that a private individual enjoys, to stifle her beration is ironic given the ideals of competitive individualism she so frequently put forth. But should this openness to public criticism be extended to her mourners?
"Yes, if they chose to make her funeral a public hagiographic affair, exempt of all criticism, funded from the public purse."
Mr Francis said that despite his intention for a peaceful protest, he does not "trust the police" and "fully expect[s]" to be arrested.
"We intend to have legal observers with us, and shall continue to issue statements that our protest shall be entirely peaceful and that we do not intend to case a breach of the peace, nor cause offense, harassment, alarm or distress.
"Despite this I do not trust the police and fully expect to be arrested! To stifle dissent at Thatcher's funeral reeks of the totalitarian authoritarianism she so passionately fought against."
He added: "The demonstration will be taking place as close to St Paul's as possible, for maximum media impact."
Another protester added: "It will be shown world wide."
Mr Francis was also involved in protests against the visit to Britain of Pope Benedict in 2010.
Another group member, Jemma McCartney, who was pictured on her profile playing with her dogs and riding a horse, posted: "I'm ------- going, enough sitting back, keeping quiet and letting everyone else do the talking!
"With the amount of different groups going to protest/party/riot something big is bound to kick off and I am well up for a bit of Civil Unrest! ---- the pigs and ---- the government!"



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...on-casket.html

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*

Last edited by hopefuldreamer; 04-12-2013 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:46 PM   #111
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As far as she was concerned she never did anything disgraceful'. The lives she ruined, the communities destroyed? Disposable collateral damage in her quest to crush the unions and deliberately impoverish the North for the benefit of the wealthy in the South.

So no, in life she never faced up to anything, as it would take an acceptance from her that she was at fault. Her ego, arrogance and utter contempt for those she wronged would never allow for that.

And yes, I would say she is having the last laugh: She is getting a 'virtual' State Funeral thanks to the current Tory Toadies in power (her Children indeed), at an estimated cost of £10 million pounds to the tax payers.

Yes, in spite of the considerable wealth of her own family, including her proven criminal son, our money is paying for that witch to get a send off usually reserved for royalty or figures who actually deserved it.
So there was no 'Frost/Nixon' moment, I take it.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:36 AM   #112
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So what are people's opinions on the millions being spent on her "not state" funeral, where meanwhile people with severe disabilities are not given the care they need because the country "can't afford it"?

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Old 04-13-2013, 06:32 AM   #113
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So there was no 'Frost/Nixon' moment, I take it.
Nope. She was too sly to let any interviewer corner her. When she was pressed on such matters she's just coldy dismiss them all (not her governments fault, it's a 'sign of the times', it's all Labours fault, the usual evasive crap).

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So what are people's opinions on the millions being spent on her "not state" funeral, where meanwhile people with severe disabilities are not given the care they need because the country "can't afford it"?
It's scandalous imo, even if the country did have the money and were not neck deep in a recession her children continue to blame labour for.

Hell, things have gotten worse since they got in, as financial experts predicted when Osbourne announced his savage 'Austerity' cuts. History has shown cutting public spending only makes matters worse and delays possible recovery, but then the Tories have never needed recessions to cut anything that doesn't benefit them or their rich paymasters. They steal from the poor to feather the nests of the rich time and time again.

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Old 04-13-2013, 08:29 AM   #114
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So what are people's opinions on the millions being spent on her "not state" funeral, where meanwhile people with severe disabilities are not given the care they need because the country "can't afford it"?
I feel the same way about it as I do all the other complete wastes of our money we have no control over. Like when they exposed what MP's where spending their tax payer supplied 'budgets' on.

Utterly miffed.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 04-17-2013, 06:24 PM   #115
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Just wanted to say how touching I found the site of thousands of Mrs Thatcher's supporters lining the streets and showering the road with flowers. There were a few protesters, but only the usual wierdy-beardies (men and women). Whether time is the healer, or it is merely a matter of Thatcher's values becoming almost universally accepted with the death of socialism, it seems the public perception of her has matured into one of widespread respect. She still courts some controversy, but primarily amongst vested interests and student types that have yet to grow out of the Che Guevara T shirt.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:30 PM   #116
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Just wanted to say how touching I found the site of thousands of Mrs Thatcher's supporters lining the streets and showering the road with flowers. There were a few protesters, but only the usual wierdy-beardies (men and women). Whether time is the healer, or it is merely a matter of Thatcher's values becoming almost universally accepted with the death of socialism, it seems the public perception of her has matured into one of widespread respect. She still courts some controversy, but primarily amongst vested interests and student types that have yet to grow out of the Che Guevara T shirt.
I'd expect a more reasoned post from you, Reg. A LOT of people have no respect for Thatcher and do not accept her values, and by no stretch of the imagination are they all weirdy-beardies. She remains a very divisive figure. She did tell Mandelson 'Don't believe the Irish, they're all liars.' Personally, I still think Britain is dealing with the fallout from her premiership and the seismic changes it caused in the public attitude towards society, government, and the role and responsibility of the individual.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:59 PM   #117
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You're right, of course. Frankly, however, my description of the types protesting at the woman's funeral stand. I have found that entire campaign to be crass, tasteless and depressing. I do not accept that it is any different from what Westboro Baptists do. It made me angry.

I understand, however, that she is the second most loathed English person after Cromwell, in much of the Celtic parts of the isles. And of course she will remain divisive, as any radical always does.

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #118
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Yet she's loved where I live. Stupid Tory South East

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:39 PM   #119
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People wouldn't call her "divisive" if everyone disliked her. The polls show that she would probably win an election now.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...t-8576352.html

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Old 04-19-2013, 04:42 PM   #120
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013)

They did a poll with Reagan against Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden....Reagan won hands down.

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Old 04-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #121
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Is there anything less credible than polls about dead people?

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Old 04-19-2013, 05:33 PM   #122
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Not sure what you mean by 'credible'. They report what people think at any given time. The inferences drawn from them might be suspect, but they are what they are.

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Old 04-22-2013, 12:46 AM   #123
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Thatcher supported apartheid, supported Pinochet and Suharto, destroyed the unions and rights of the lower classes, laid waste the communities of the North to the point that her policies continue to hurt many regions, and instituted a poll tax that was entirely flat across the board, so two billionaires in a mansion would pay less than three down on their lucks sharing a flat.

Thatcher may be respected by a lot of people, but she opposed the values of the welfare state, one of the foundational aspects of socialism, which seems to be pretty popular these days outside America, and even in it to a degree.

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Old 04-22-2013, 03:21 AM   #124
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Thatcher supported apartheid
No, she didn't. She opposed sanctions on the regime, but it is a lie to say that she "supported apartheid". France opposed the invasion of Iraq, but it did not "support Saddam Hussein".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22069896
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...apartheid.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...rtheid-mandela

I do not recognize your assertion that she 'destroyed the rights of the lower classes', or that she 'laid waste the communities of the North' (sic). You might be mixing her up with William the Conqueror.

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