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#276 | |
Not a hero
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Belize
Posts: 4,014
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Not a complaint, per se, but I guess if there's one thing I would "improve" it would be the introduction of the clean slate.
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Superman with Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated! A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended. |
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#277 |
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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The clean slate gets me thinking just how many classic movie tropes played BIG parts in TDKR.
The McGuffin - The Clean Slate The Femme Fatale (specifically the type the hero falls for and is betrayed by) - Talia The Ticking Clock Finale- The bomb Maybe BB and TDK had similar tropes as well, but if that's the case, they certainly felt fresher and less generic than those in TDKR. |
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#278 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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TDKR to me felt like more of a celebration of genre films in general. It had just a touch more pulp to it than the previous ones.
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#279 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Every film's gonna have classic tropes one way or the other. You could call Batman's gauntlets in TDK a Chekhov's gun.
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#280 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 263
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#281 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Yah, shame on me for not hating Blake just like you
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#282 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,289
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#283 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Of all the cons the film has, such as not giving the city much focus on either returns of Batman or of Bane's siege, of certain characters not receiving more screen time or even of script/editing issues...the pros definitely outweigh the negatives. Just got done watching TDKR once again earlier today and it's just one of those films that I can watch over and over(and there are only a few of those). Really pleased to say that I still love the film so much.
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#284 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,671
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In hindsight, I would add a scene where Batman kicks a corrupt hot dog vendor repeatedly in the nuts.
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#285 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Well ****, I don't, lol.
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#286 |
4AF
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,143
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That would be perfect. We could bring back the Falafel guy but this time he's selling hot dogs. And he's selling overpriced hot dogs in the middle of No Man's Land, creating a monopoly on food. Then, when Batman returns, he takes him out first to topple the power structure.
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#287 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,671
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I can't post videos with uncensored language so I'll just post a link to the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMOYdsKY_IM ![]() Last edited by Shikamaru; 04-21-2013 at 11:16 PM. |
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#288 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 40
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The only thing I'd consider changing would be the 8 year sabbatical and that is because it cheapens the Jokers "we are destined to do this forever" line, which was so iconic.
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#289 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,597
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That article posted debunking 10 of the most common 'issues' with TDKR is a great one.
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"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle |
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#290 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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The only true complaint I feel TDKR should receive is the fact that the nuclear bomb doesn't even act like a nuclear bomb in the end and nothing of radiation is discussed. The other complaints are quickly downsized when reading that article regarding the top ten most common issues.
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#291 | |
Jimmy Scrambles
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 2,134
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#292 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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The editorial wasn't insipid, it pretty much mirrors the thoughts of most people who loved the movie. Sean Gerber is a smart dude and a Bat-fan with a good head on his shoulders.
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#293 | |
Jimmy Scrambles
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 2,134
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I'm sure that Sean Gerber is a great dude; however, that's neither here nor there. |
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#294 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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I disagree, but fair enough. I thought the arguments were cogent and well presented, regardless of his opinion. Which, he was completely within his rights to express as it was an op-ed.
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#295 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Besides my issues of TDKR needing more time as well as using Coleman Reese which I have personally mentioned for months, my biggest complaint will always be the fact that a nuclear bomb doesn't feel like a nuclear bomb. http://whatculture.com/film/10-quest...ight-rises.php 10. Alfred would nevah give up on Bruce - actually he has left Bruce in the comics. 9. Talia nullified Bane - Bane was the face behind everything that happened up until the very end when Talia made her presence known; to say she nullified him would be saying that the viewer should just not care that Bane was the face of everything what was going on as well as being the threat that Broke the Bat. And Bane also had the respect of his men, even having one of his soldiers totally fine that Bane told him to stay in the soon-to-be fiery ball of an airplane. As well as the fact that he even disobeyed the one order he received. Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
8. All Gotham cops were foolishly trapped underground - Aside from Gordon not being the first Commissioner to send all of his forces into one area(Loeb in Batman Begins), Gordon did try to get Foley to search for Bane and he never tried or didn't even cared to do such. And personally, I feel like Gordon was trying to do what he can when he knows that Batman is gone once again. 7. The case of the disappearing limp - Either A.) Bruce continued to wear his knee brace the rest of the film, which shouldn't have been a focus anymore, or B.) His leg was fixed either by Conti's character or in a more "fantastical" or "mystical" level of him climbing out of the Pit a new person. 6. Bruce would never do that to Alfred - Wanting it to be seen that he's indeed dead was the better option of making Gotham City move on and realize that Batman has always been that face of hope that the city needed. A time with Alfred believing Bruce is actually dead is minimal to what that sacrifice meant for a city as a whole. 5. John Blake outsmarted Jim Gordon - A man who went through the same pain knew that Bruce Wayne is Batman over another man who didn't want to know and didn't care to know. Shocking ![]() Besides, Gordon was always known to be someone who tried to play dumb in that aspect of who Batman really was. It wasn't something Gordon wanted to know. 4. Bruce Wayne never wanted copycats - He surely didn't want copycats who has no idea what they're doing shooting guns. Robin John Blake doesn't fit that category and can take up the mantle respectably. Sure, he needs training, but his arc is similar to Bruce's in BB so much that Blake can be the next guy to truly be Batman again and not have to wear hockey pads. 3. Bruce would not have quit over Rachel's death - And he didn't quit being Batman over Rachel's death. He only quit being Bruce. 2. How did Bruce get back to Gotham - The first sentence in that part of the article is so damn right on point: "Dramatic effect be damned.". It's like people want dramatic effects, but then they don't when they have to end up thinking for themselves. I'm glad Nolan made the correct call into showing the audience Bruce leaving and then his next scene is him meeting Selina Kyle. Her reaction fit alongside the audience. 1. Bruce Wayne would never retire - Officially retire, most likely no. But it did fit with Nolan's whole agenda with Bruce from the beginning in creating a symbol. He was never going to do this his entire life, but the legend of Batman became a legacy. |
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#296 |
You Look Plump Today
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 14,480
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I think we're discussing the WhatCulture article correct?
I read that and the ArkhamForum post. They all make convincing arguments and Ill definitely need to rewatch TDKR with those in mind. If all of that was explained more in depth on screen, I'd be "I dig this interpretation." May not dig Batman quitting, but the narrative reasoning is understandable. But as some screenwriter in the WC comments said, I pay to see what's presented on camera. I feel as if small details like Bruce getting back to Gotham or Bane not removing the leg brace are fine to gloss over- it's a movie, real life rules are broken. However, the bits about "oh he could've contacted Alfred" or "there's a line where Alfred says 'you never left Batman' ignore the 30 minutes of Rachel talk"- I feel as if those are narrative issues and character development points that really needed to be more fleshed out. Ive said this earlier, but had Alfred/Batman talked more about the "Your victory has defeated" you instead of "Rachel," I think more people, including myself, would be more accepting. Same kinda goes for the point on the Alfred crying scene- I viewed it as "Bruce you jackass," and the WC guy kinda filled in the blanks of "Maybe he thought the momentary pain was worth the cafe smile." I personally think filling in the blanks for heavy narratives isn't the best in filmmaking. There's a difference between ambiguity and "why did he say X but now he's doing Y?" Just my two cents, but I really think the character motives shouldve been explained more in depth. |
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#297 |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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Of course we pay to see what's presented on camera...but what exactly isn't presented on camera that the article speaks of?
"Batman wasn't needed anymore, we won." should tell you right there that that's the reason Batman is gone. All the other talk about Rachel, though? It was meant to push further the idea that this film is about Bruce Wayne first and foremost. He never moved on with a life after Rachel's death. That's why the "Rachel talk" is so important. |
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#298 |
Jimmy Scrambles
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 2,134
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Hey, no doubt; I'm not disputing as much, but if the point was to debate and debunk criticism that stems from contrarian opinions, then pandering to a like-minded audience is not the way to go about it. The end result is little more than preaching to the choir, so I can't imagine anyone who isn't already in agreement with him taking this seriously.
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#299 |
You Look Plump Today
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 14,480
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Well yes and no- I think some and some arent in that article. For example, the Bruce/Alfred arguments- from what I remember, most of the lines are heavily focused on Rachel, so one would think it's just all about Rachel. The implication after TDK and a few lines say "victory has defeated you." You have to really focus on those few lines to really fill in the character motives there.
The same goes for Bruce faking his death after Alfred went "oh it would kill me if you died." The WC article discusses off screen stuff, like "oh well Bruce could've thought X." But on screen, it's easy to go "wait WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO HIM." It's not as if Bruce turned to the camera as he was driving off and said "the temporary pain Alfred will endure will be forgiven when I smile in the cafe." There is some filling in the blanks with character motives there, which I really dont dig personally. Sorry if my argument is worded terribly, Im taking a break from math finals so I can't really think in terms of ENGLISH. ![]() Last edited by Clerk; 04-23-2013 at 10:16 PM. |
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#300 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
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![]() And I feel that the idea of how Bruce Wayne quit being Batman are noticeable, such as Bruce Wayne quit being Bruce Wayne because of Rachel. The latter was the most important though as the movie dealt heavily with the idea that Bruce has to move on. Him quitting being Batman is of course mentioned, but not heavily and I feel that that was the point. And it indeed brings up questions on what Bruce could have done, and I think what he could've done as well, but showing Gotham that Batman is dead means more than Bruce letting Alfred know what was going to happen, especially when Alfred was gone. Alfred getting his own hope back in the last seconds makes it all worth it, imo. |
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