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Old 04-24-2013, 04:48 PM   #926
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I am too old for smilies, I know not what they mean.

<-- I mean, what the hell is that?

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Old 04-24-2013, 05:19 PM   #927
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:24 PM   #928
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I'm 24. The Superman with the trunks was MY Superman...AND my dad's. That's what creates timelessness: something that maintains a consistent level of quality that any generation can be attracted to. Why is timeless literature, or timeless films, considered so? Is it because they "change and adapt with the times?" Or is because they were spectacular to begin with?

Youth has nothing to do with it. Youth is, and this is a bit of a generalized statement so I apologize, inherently stupid. They work on instinct, whereas older individuals have the life experience and wisdom to make important choices. There's an age restriction on being President of the United States for a very good reason. Something as perfectly timeless as Superman, who is the epitome of American mythology, should not bend to suit the whims of a the "younger generation" who think they define what's "cool."

Mark my words: Superman will be getting the trunks back in the near future. Like fashion, the work on these characters, and our general feelings and experiences with them, is cyclical.
I don't know how soon they'll be back in movies, but trunks will definitely return to the comics at some point.

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Old 04-24-2013, 05:30 PM   #929
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Something as perfectly timeless as Superman, who is the epitome of American mythology, should not bend to suit the whims of a the "younger generation" who think they define what's "cool".
I agree, but that isn't set in stone. I think of superheroes almost as competing religions, all vying for the attention and the imagination of new believers (children). Whereas Superman once dominated the superhero market, he has since been met with more heavy competition. And while I don't doubt that Superman is still - by far - the most popular superhero in the world... he won't be for long if future generations of children are time and time again being introduced to the superhero mythos through the eyes of another superhero. There's a good chance Superman is my favorite superhero simply because he is the character I was raised on.

When I was a kid in the 80's it was all about Superman and Batman, but now? Even a third tier character like Iron Man has rose to prominence and has captured the imagination of an entirely new generation of children. Now Iron Man is a thing. Now the character has life in him. When I was a kid, no one wanted to be Iron Man. But now? Ask yourself how many kids would rather be Superman? I'm not even sure I know the answer. They're too busy playing Avengers. Or playing Batman. Or playing Spiderman. And if these kids don't care about Superman, then neither will their kids. So in my opinion, the absolute LAST thing the Superman character needs is for everyone to be reminded that he's a thing of the past. That he's something of a different time. And I'm sorry... I believe the trunks would do just that.

The powers at WB have a responsibility to the character and the property, not just as keepers of the faith but also a responsibility to ensure that the character endures. Man Of Steel looks to be the answer. REMOVING THE TRUNKS... is an answer.

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Old 04-24-2013, 05:34 PM   #930
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I am too old for smilies, I know not what they mean.

<-- I mean, what the hell is that?
Either whoever's kidnapped your SHH account, or Joe Sixpack's Dog.





























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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:27 AM   #931
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I doubt that would change anything. People aren't really going to go, "Oh, he wears his underwear on the outside! I'm never going watch or read anything about Superman because of that!" Any problems he has in terms of popularity or how many people want to see films about him doesn't stem from his trunks or not. Like I said, if MOS or any film had the trunks and advertised a pretty awesome and entertaining film, people would go see it. I mean, is there evidence that the New 52 has caused a significant increase in sales/popularity for Superman-related stuff and still maintaining it to this day because they removed the trunks?
Well, every single person that's not into comics I've talked to have considered giving MoS a shot once they saw the 1st still (the one where he's in front of the vault). Granted, neither Athens nor my social circles (online or physical) equal the rest of the world, but the loss of trunks does make a difference.

And it's not just the trunks per se, it's what they also signify: Another version. Now, I get your point: "What if we had gotten this 'another' version, but also kept the trunks?" And my answer to that is, you need a visual topping to your do-over. And when it comes to Superman, the public has 3 things to say:
1.He wears his underwear outside his suit.
2.He's a goodie 2-shoes.
3.He's too powerful.

And it looks like MoS is addressing all 3 of those things in one way or another. But the trunks are the most direct way to tell cynics "Yeah, he's different this time around", while keeping the morals and core of the character. And I honestly believe this is going to make some kind of difference to the BO, silly/funny as it may sound to you.


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Old 04-25-2013, 12:14 PM   #932
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Well, every single person that's not into comics I've talked to have considered giving MoS a shot once they saw the 1st still (the one where he's in front of the vault). Granted, neither Athens nor my social circles (online or physical) equal the rest of the world, but the loss of trunks does make a difference.

And it's not just the trunks per se, it's what they also signify: Another version. Now, I get your point: "What if we had gotten this 'another' version, but also kept the trunks?" And my answer to that is, you need a visual topping to your do-over. And when it comes to Superman, the public has 3 things to say:
1.He wears his underwear outside his suit.
2.He's a goodie 2-shoes.
3.He's too powerful.

And it looks like MoS is addressing all 3 of those things in one way or another. But the trunks are the most direct way to tell cynics "Yeah, he's different this time around", while keeping the morals and core of the character. And I honestly believe this is going to make some kind of difference to the BO, silly/funny as it may sound to you.
The people I talked first noticed that this film will be more action packed than SR and when I told them Snyder was behind it, they got more excited. Then talks of trunks came, to which they wondered why they were missing and I explained the current change in comics and litigation, but they were ultimately indifferent with an "Oh, ok" type of reaction. Nothing about how "good" he is or power. Much excitement about action and quality thanks to Snyder and Nolan's names.

It's like JAK brought up, some people may make these same complaints and/or jokes, but they still end up coming to see the films. If MOS kept the trunks and marketed the film the same exact way (He not only throws a punch, but at least two!), it'd still be more appealing than SR in which they tried to play up on the assumed nostalgia the general public had for the Donner films.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:01 PM   #933
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

It's kinda split with my crowd. some say it was stupid to get rid of the trunks, others say the trunks were stupid and are glad they're gone. whatcha gon do you know.

Anywho, Me personally, as a die hard superman fan since the late 70's, I gotta say I love the new suit in MoS.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:17 PM   #934
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Compi716
Something as perfectly timeless as Superman, who is the epitome of American mythology, should not bend to suit the whims of a the "younger generation" who think they define what's "cool".
Well, going off this logic, you should be positively up in arms that this movie has the audacity to have Superman flying in this film. Yes, flying. The gall. When Superman was first conceived, he could only leap incredible distances, however when they started making cartoons of him in the 40's and 50's, the animators changed it to flying because it was easier to animate, and the comics picked up the trait.

Presumably because they thought it was cool.

So I'm all for being a hardcore traditionalist. TAKE BACK OUR SUPERMAN! NO MORE FLYING! Also, while we're at it, let's get back that incredibly nationalist and slightly racist Superman who proclaimed to children "Superman says it's okay to slap a Jap!"

Point being, these characters change. They're constantly changing, as they should, because comics are an ever changing medium. That's why they still exist. They take certain things and leave certain things behind. As they should, otherwise they'd get incredibly stagnant. Now, I actually don't care one way or the other on the trunks issue. But trying to say Superman should not change to suit the whims of a younger generation is just silly, because it's what Superman has always done. And will continue to do.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:26 PM   #935
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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It's kinda split with my crowd. some say it was stupid to get rid of the trunks, others say the trunks were stupid and are glad they're gone. whatcha gon do you know.

Anywho, Me personally, as a die hard superman fan since the late 70's, I gotta say I love the new suit in MoS.
The trunks don't make or break the chances of them going to see this film, right?

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Old 04-25-2013, 02:53 PM   #936
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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The trunks don't make or break the chances of them going to see this film, right?
I don't think a cape would either, for that matter....if for nothing else morbid curiosity.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #937
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

My girlfriend is excited about it, but I fear that has more to do with Cavill's chiseled visage.

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Old 04-25-2013, 03:52 PM   #938
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I don't think a cape would either, for that matter....if for nothing else morbid curiosity.
They should've gone with this...



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My girlfriend is excited about it, but I fear that has more to do with Cavill's chiseled visage.
Nah, it's the chest hair.

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He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

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Old 04-25-2013, 10:31 PM   #939
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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The people I talked first noticed that this film will be more action packed than SR and when I told them Snyder was behind it, they got more excited. Then talks of trunks came, to which they wondered why they were missing and I explained the current change in comics and litigation, but they were ultimately indifferent with an "Oh, ok" type of reaction. Nothing about how "good" he is or power. Much excitement about action and quality thanks to Snyder and Nolan's names.

It's like JAK brought up, some people may make these same complaints and/or jokes, but they still end up coming to see the films. If MOS kept the trunks and marketed the film the same exact way (He not only throws a punch, but at least two!), it'd still be more appealing than SR in which they tried to play up on the assumed nostalgia the general public had for the Donner films.
agree completely. Trunks are never the problem. It’s always the storyline. If they were the problem, they would be gone long time ago and forever. Unfortunately The cynics win in this era, that’s all.

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Old 04-25-2013, 10:55 PM   #940
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I've got 14 years on Compi, making me a Superman fan over a decade before he was born*, and I agree with not only jettisoning the trunks, but the reasons behind the decision.

Superman is Superman no matter what costume he's wearing. He's about character and ideals, not what flavor spandex he has on. No kid ever said "Wow look at those shorts! This guy is awesome!"

Anyway. I'm fine with the classic costume in the comics and cartoons, and even in the movies if they were going for a more 4-color tone, but with the more grounded feel of this film I don't think it'd work.

Just my 2˘

*Not trying to play the 'bigger fan than you' card, it's just a rejection of this 'blame the younger generation' nonsense.

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Old 04-26-2013, 12:02 PM   #941
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I've got 14 years on Compi, making me a Superman fan over a decade before he was born*, and I agree with not only jettisoning the trunks, but the reasons behind the decision.

Superman is Superman no matter what costume he's wearing. He's about character and ideals, not what flavor spandex he has on. No kid ever said "Wow look at those shorts! This guy is awesome!"

Anyway. I'm fine with the classic costume in the comics and cartoons, and even in the movies if they were going for a more 4-color tone, but with the more grounded feel of this film I don't think it'd work.

Just my 2˘

*Not trying to play the 'bigger fan than you' card, it's just a rejection of this 'blame the younger generation' nonsense.
Did kids ever say "Wow look at those shorts....this guy's stupid"?


Maybe.....

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:08 PM   #942
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

I've never heard a single person comment on the trunks in real life. I think it's largely an internet thing, personally.

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Old 04-27-2013, 12:51 AM   #943
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I don't know how soon they'll be back in movies, but trunks will definitely return to the comics at some point.
I really hope not. I hope we've finally entered an era of a Superman without underpants on the outside.

Sometimes I feel like the only Superman fan who loved Chris Reeve, grew up reading the comics, and loves all the various incarnations in various media, but always thought the underpants were silly and wished they did a design without them.

I mean, I can't overstate how much of a fan of Superman I am, but I just have never really been fond of the underpants.

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Old 04-27-2013, 08:22 AM   #944
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

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I've never heard a single person comment on the trunks in real life. I think it's largely an internet thing, personally.
One of my buddies while drinking a month or two ago said he looks gay without trunks lol. I told him how is it gay NOT to wear your undies over your suit. He then had an epiphany and looked like his brain was melting. I support the trunks and the new look. I like them both and LOVE LOVE LOVE the MOS suit so far.

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Old 04-27-2013, 12:17 PM   #945
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I am too old for smilies, I know not what they mean.

<-- I mean, what the hell is that?
That is Doglips!!! He is greatly missed.



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Old 04-27-2013, 12:21 PM   #946
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

What happened to DL?

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Old 04-27-2013, 12:53 PM   #947
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

Back to the trunks again huh? Good, its always an interesting thing to debate.
For me, I'll always have a soft spot for the classic suit, and I still believe to this day that no one has ever done justice to that suit in live action. Not Reeve not the Superboy suit from the 80's, not the Cain one and most certainly not the Routh suit.

Technically it shouldn't be hard at all, I mean, you're trying to bring to life a comic book character right? Then try your best to keep it as faithful as possible. But wait, the studio providing the money also has a say, and they insist the trunks are a turn off to the GA, therefor the Director has to compromise.
Let me tell you guys something, ALL they had to do to include the trunks was to darken them so they melted more with the rest of the costume, because in ultra bright mode they really do look out of place. With a new smart design, they could have easily included them. And you guys wanna know what really stings? Snyder described the Krypton civilization as "ancient" with "rusted technology" or something like that. If there was ever a time to include the trunks, now would have been it, because they could just have explained that it was part of a thousand year old tradition/culture whatever. Obviously the design would have to be slightly so they don't appear directly like briefs and design wise, I believe it could have been achieved.

PS: I outright Love the MOS suit, so nothing against that in any way, just trying to defend this particular aspect of Supermans classic costume.

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Old 04-27-2013, 12:57 PM   #948
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Default Re: It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 2

How do you do the classic suit justice in live action? Most of the previous suits were straight translations of it. Keep in mind there are always slight proportion changes from artist to artist and the logo doesn't always look the same.

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Old 04-27-2013, 01:13 PM   #949
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How do you do the classic suit justice in live action? Most of the previous suits were straight translations of it. Keep in mind there are always slight proportion changes from artist to artist and the logo doesn't always look the same.
I'll tell you exactly how to do it justice. And you've already seen it. Pretty much exactly what they've done with the MOS suit, just remove SOME of the piping or rearrange it so it fits better with the added trunks which are a really dark red in my version and a material that react differently to light like the rest of the MOS costume apparently does, oh and add the S to the cape. When I say Justice, I mean in such a way that the concept is there, but executed in a modern-ish way. I very much like ( in fact love) the concept of the piping in the MOS costume, and if I were in charge I would simply just merge this new idea with the classic suit in a slightly different way and just present it as classic yet updated. Hell I even did a full scale drawing on it just for my own curiosity.

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Old 04-27-2013, 01:44 PM   #950
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LOL



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