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Old 04-28-2013, 11:52 AM   #201
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
Well, Iíd wager we all want the same thing - kick-ass action and spectacular super feats that put Iron Man and Hulk to shame.

Of course, Superman is a walking/flying violation of physics. I maintain, though, that this fantasy is actually more exciting when itís put alongside the familiar/real world. But if you start to imply that - wink, wink - the surrounding rules are different for Supes and relaxed for his convenience (as in my SIII example) then the feats of strength become decidedly less impressive.

Yes, audiences have gotten a bit more knowledgeable and critical (cynical?) since STM. But I donít think we can scold them into being less demanding, less knowledgeable; we (and filmmakers) have to deal with it.
The rules of the real world aren't just relaxed for Superman, but every extraordinary character, and you know it. Most things are fine if they are done with a manner of verisimilitude.

It's like how a magician doesn't make their tricks seem easy to perform, they'll often show signs of strain, because at the end of the day, they don't want you to think it's a trick, they want you to be tricked.

Examples of verisimilitude, though breaking actual laws of physics:

Batman's microwave emitter
Batman's fusion generator
Batman's cape
Batman's grapnel (at least how he uses it)
Batman's armour (given the thickness of the plates)
Batman kicking through a brick and mortar pillar
Bane punching through a concrete pillar
Spider-Man's super-strength
Spider-Man's wall-crawling ability
Thor's super-strength
Mjolnir (being unliftable)
Hulk catching Stark with no damage to Stark
In fact, all damage done to Stark
Vibranium
The Tesseract
When the Hulk pulls on a Leviathan's face, and the Leviathan is pulled to the ground. The Hulk was pulling the Levithan against itself, it shouldn't have moved.


There's more, but as long as you make the regular Joe's believe, it doesn't matter.

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #202
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

I posted this in another thread...Shouldn't Superman wear armor like Zod and company since they all supposedly have equal powers?

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #203
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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I posted this in another thread...Shouldn't Superman wear armor like Zod and company since they all supposedly have equal powers?
Zod and the rest of Kryptonians wear armor because they're part of the Kryptonian army. Superman isn't. His suit is created simply to represent the symbol of hope.

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:33 PM   #204
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

Well, he is going to need more than hope when Zod hits him with an armored Kryptonian fist.

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:42 PM   #205
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Well, he is going to need more than hope when Zod hits him with an armored Kryptonian fist.
think bigger picture, buddy. zod & co will need the armor when going up against supes. based on everything we've seen so far, i think it's fair to assume that they won't be on the same power level as supes and will need all the help they can get.

the last few seconds of the last trailer pretty much prove that to me. an unarmored thug is getting punched effortlessly across the city. it would just be unfair if they didn't have some sort of balancer/equalizer.

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:53 PM   #206
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

From a scientific point of view, Superman would be stronger than Zod and his army because he's been on earth for longer and was exposed to the yellow sun for a lot longer.

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Old 04-28-2013, 08:20 PM   #207
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

That helps explain things Shikamaru...I hope there is a reason and that reason is revealed CLEARLY in the movie. I hope WB doesn't think they can pass that off to us fanboys with no explanation.

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Old 04-28-2013, 09:10 PM   #208
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

I think they covered his power level in the new Entertainment Weekly or another magazine I read...Not the whole lifting continent strength thing(or maybe not show casing it like that), and have Supes struggle to fly and making it a more violent action.

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Old 05-11-2013, 08:12 AM   #209
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

Well just over 4 weeks to go so we'll soon find out just how powerful this version of Superman is.

Going by the tv spots we've seen so far, it seems they've been pretty faithful to the comics and most of the powers we expect (flight, strength, speed, heat vision, degrees of invulnerability, etc) all seem to be present and accounted for.

To me, one of the most important powers to depict on screen is flight, and it looks very promising from what we've seen so far - not that I'd expect any less from someone as keenly tuned into visuals as Snyder is. Flight is arguably Superman's most iconic power; it's why the tagline for Donner's film was "You'll believe a man can fly" ......... not "You'll believe a man can shoot lasers" or "You'll believe a man can lift a mountain"

Flight is so much more than just a power; it sums up a lot of what Superman represents, as this almost perfect and advanced version of man. Flight is a metaphor for freedom, for looking upwards and onwards, for being unrestricted and able to go anywhere & do anything. It's very important that they portray it convincingly on screen but also show how majestic and powerful Superman can make it look. The original Superman was only able to leap tall buildings, but I like to think that whoever came up with the idea of flight did so because it represents the concept of a Super-man much more than powerful leaps do.

One of my first questions in this thread was "How powerful should Superman be?". I've a feeling that MOS may not actually answer that question. Snyder made a comment about Superman flying, and you think he's going pretty fast ............. and then he just punches it up another level, and so on. Perhaps this Superman simply doesn't know how fast or strong he is; he just pushes himself harder and goes a little further every time. It's not unrealistic I guess; Olympian athletes will compete over and over again to better their previous performances, and just when you think they couldn't improve - they do.

By not establishing any particular limit, it also satisfies the group of fanboys who insist on being 100% clear whether Superman is stronger than Thor, or Hulk is stronger than Superman, and so on. Keeping it a grey area allows more potential in future and doesn't restrict Superman in any way.

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Old 05-11-2013, 09:59 AM   #210
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

Yeah I agree. From what we have seen so far Superman will be very powerful, but he will struggle, but at the same time push himself further every time.

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Old 06-06-2013, 02:28 AM   #211
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

Do they explain how kryptonians gets their abilities on earth in the movie?

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Old 06-06-2013, 06:12 AM   #212
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
Zod and the rest of Kryptonians wear armor because they're part of the Kryptonian army. Superman isn't. His suit is created simply to represent the symbol of hope.
I thought it was the 'S' itself was the symbol of hope, not the outfit.

Jor-El wears armor also, although it's styled differently to Zod and co's military 'knight-like' armor, which reflects his station/profession on Krypton, and we've seen other Kryptonians wearing almost 'ceremonial' armour too. Supes' outfit basically seems to just be the under-layer that all the other Kryptionians wear under their garb, certainly, we know that Jor-El, Zod and co wear it.

It's funny, we though the old and cliched 'Supes wearing underwear' jokes would be gone when they ditched the trunks yet Zod and co. must now look at Superman and wonder why he's walking round in his Kryptonian underwear.

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Old 06-06-2013, 06:49 AM   #213
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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I would consider it if they made it clear that's part of his power set beforehand and give a good sense how it works. Making Superman be able to randomly do anything including changing the physics of reality is cartoonish. No you can't spin the world backwards to go back in time. Giving him random powers we haven't seen before is bad story telling.
I only wanted to point out that among all of the silly, unscientific stuff Superman did, going back in time is not one of them...

BTW: He did not spin the earth backwards in time... he flew at speeds faster than the speed of light.. now, we know that's not possible, but since we're talking fantasy here (as no one can fly either), then assuming he could move faster than the speed of light, we don't know what happens... would he be warping space/time? Could he then go back and forth is spacetime? We do know that if you sit on a jet plane, your time will slow down in relation to someone that's on Earth... and if you're on a rocket flying at say 90% of the speed of light, and if you come back to eart after 1 year in your time, everyone you know on earth would be long dead...

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:10 PM   #214
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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then assuming he could move faster than the speed of light, we don't know what happens... would he be warping space/time? Could he then go back and forth is spacetime?
Really?? We do know what happens. There is already a lot of science behind it. Let the real scientists do the thinking instead of assuming things on your own.

Moving near speed of light results in only going FORWARD in time relative to everyone else. You should watch Through the Wormhole to understand why it's not possible to go back in time. Nature doesn't allow it.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:27 PM   #215
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

See, this is where theoretical time-travel can burn a person's head; I thought it was the opposite of that - in that you can't go forward in time because it hasnt happened yet, you can only go back.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #216
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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The trailer also shows us a bearded and shirtless Clark with a look of exertion on his face as he pushes against what I assume is the beam on the oil rig that we've seen in previous set videos. IMO that look translates to a difficult feat of strength........an indication of a Superman quite a bit less powerful than Reeve or Routh?
yes and no. This is during his "test your limits" phase IMHO, and I think with Superman lifting heavy objects...initial lifting always seems to have strain, even a car, but it's like he has an unlimited set of gears so as long as he puts the effort in...he can lift anything.

If lifting a mountain requires strain, you would think he could lift a car with the flick of his wrist..but it never works out that way.

He has to teach his body what particular weights feel like to him. Just as a bodybuilder works from 200lbs to 300lbs to 400lbs...each come with their own set of resistance.

Based on Superman's strength of lifting mountains, etc.. lifting a car would be like lifting a single sheet of paper, no resistant at all..but there is.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:40 PM   #217
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

Um, no, if you actually did travel faster than light, the basic relativity equations would have time going backwards for you. Its just that this is impossible, as accelerating to reach lightspeed would require infinite energy.

Whether time travel is impossible or not is a matter of debate, complicated by the fact that just because something is possible, doesn't mean the mechanisms by which you could achieve it exist.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:41 PM   #218
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

and I have been wondering this for a while.

If the longer Clark is under the yellow sun the stronger he becomes...does that mean technically as a baby on planet earth, he was at his most vulnerable and "could" have possibly been injured/harmed...lets say could he have withstood a military strike or being shot with a bullet if he was 2 years old?

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:55 PM   #219
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Really?? We do know what happens. There is already a lot of science behind it. Let the real scientists do the thinking instead of assuming things on your own.

Moving near speed of light results in only going FORWARD in time relative to everyone else. You should watch Through the Wormhole to understand why it's not possible to go back in time. Nature doesn't allow it.
Nature doesn't allow it, but comic books do.

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Old 06-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #220
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Really?? We do know what happens. There is already a lot of science behind it. Let the real scientists do the thinking instead of assuming things on your own.

Moving near speed of light results in only going FORWARD in time relative to everyone else. You should watch Through the Wormhole to understand why it's not possible to go back in time. Nature doesn't allow it.
Ha Ha.. you're a funny boy, FanBoiii... As far as we know it today, you can't 'physically' travel faster than the speed of light.. you'll require an infinite amount of energy.. you can get close but not exceed.. there's a reason that the speed of light is the limit... Anything beyond that would be lumped into 'the unknown'.. like what happens in a 'blackhole'.. physics as we know it breaks down...

Space/time (the fabric of space / time) on the other hand can in fact expand at rates faster than the speed of light.. so, the only way superman can travel faster than the speed of light is if he somehow can warp space/time.. (like in a warp drive in star trek), at which point, he can theoretically go back and forth in time...

The next time you presume to call someone names, please make sure of your facts...

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Old 06-06-2013, 01:22 PM   #221
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Um, no, if you actually did travel faster than light, the basic relativity equations would have time going backwards for you. Its just that this is impossible, as accelerating to reach lightspeed would require infinite energy.

Whether time travel is impossible or not is a matter of debate, complicated by the fact that just because something is possible, doesn't mean the mechanisms by which you could achieve it exist.
Exactly right...

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Old 06-06-2013, 01:25 PM   #222
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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See, this is where theoretical time-travel can burn a person's head; I thought it was the opposite of that - in that you can't go forward in time because it hasnt happened yet, you can only go back.
Anyone one of us can travel to the future... just take a jet plane.. and you'll be aging a tiny amount slower than your counterpart on the Ground.. go fast enough, and time will slow for you, meaning, you'll essentially be travelling to the future... for instance, if you ride a rocket that flies really fast (like approaching the speed of light), a day of travel can mean hundres of years have passed on Earth... see Planet of the Apes..

As for travelling back in time, that's the tricky part... maybe if multi-verse exists?? all that is still a plausibility.. it's still unknown...

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Old 06-06-2013, 01:26 PM   #223
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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and I have been wondering this for a while.

If the longer Clark is under the yellow sun the stronger he becomes...does that mean technically as a baby on planet earth, he was at his most vulnerable and "could" have possibly been injured/harmed...lets say could he have withstood a military strike or being shot with a bullet if he was 2 years old?
Probably not especially the instance right after he emerged for the spaceship.

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Old 06-06-2013, 01:29 PM   #224
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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Nature doesn't allow it, but comic books do.
That's not what we're talking about it. >Context<

We're talking about Superman travelling fast around the world in the movie. So no, it's not possible because Superman doesn't have infinite energy nor was he travelling faster than light.

If he did travel faster than light, it would be more probable that a singularity would be created than going back in time.

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Old 06-06-2013, 01:37 PM   #225
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Default Re: Superman's power level - Part 1

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That's not what we're talking about it. >Context<

We're talking about Superman travelling fast around the world in the movie. So no, it's not possible because Superman doesn't have infinite energy nor was he travelling faster than light.

If he did travel faster than light, it would be more probable that a singularity would be created than going back in time.
And what happens in a singularity? Space/Time, or Physics as we know it breaks down... so, it's entirely possible to be travelling back in forth in time (if you don't break apart) inside a singularity...

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