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View Poll Results: Rate the movie!
10 7 5.74%
9 36 29.51%
8 35 28.69%
7 13 10.66%
6 13 10.66%
5 7 5.74%
4 6 4.92%
3 2 1.64%
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
Stephanie Zacharek's negative review was predictable because she hates good genre films. I've read her reviews since her days at salon.com and she hasn't changed a bit in 15 years. Her former Salon colleague Andrew O'Hehir's review of The Avengers wasn't so much criticism of the film itself -- he didn't even address it -- as it was a diatribe against the entire genre. Critics in the US tend to indulge themselves in this manner, which is why I and others anticipated that Iron Man 3 would do well among the literate and intelligent foreign press and come a cropper when the domestic reviews came pouring in.
She doesn't hate SM2 or ASM so she's okay in my book

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Old 04-30-2013, 09:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I think the mandarin is an excellent villain and easily the most memorable one that Tony Stark has had on film yet (not that it's saying much) but then again I think one of the weakest aspects of the MCU films so far have been the villains, except maybe Loki, but when you compare it to Alfred Molina's Doc Ock, McKellen's Magneto, Pretty much all of the Batman villains, Gene hackman as Lex luthor...it's quite a tall order to make a great comic book villain stand out.

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Calvary - 9.5/10 Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - 10/10 Guardians of the Galaxy - 9.5/10
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by divan View Post
Except, like it or not, Tony Stark does have a memorable villain not only in this film, but in every Iron Man movie: himself. Iron Man 3 is not a movie about a good guy improving to fight a bad guy, it's about a guy improving to fight his own flaws. The 'hero vs villain' game is effective, but not necessary when you have an alternative which is as interesting as that one. IM3 had a chance to portray Tony Stark's definitive villain onscreen and did so, just not the way you expected it because Tony's worst villain in the film is himself: his past mistakes and insecurities come to haunt them either physically such as the case of The Mandarin
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
(and by Mandarin I'm referring to Aldrich Killian because yes, he's IM3 Mandarin and yes, they did exploit the chance to bring the character to the 21st Century by commenting on the overall ridiculousness of its roots and 'media bad guys' in general)
or psychologically such as his inability to properly function without the armor during a good part of the film. His fight against this problems is his fight against the villain, because the villain is just an extension of what he did wrong. So yeah, Batman has his Joker, 007 has his Blofeld... Tony Stark has Tony Stark.
Good stuff.

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Old 04-30-2013, 09:52 AM   #29
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by jmc View Post
I don't deny some people take it as a personal insult whenever changes are made in order for something to work in the medium at hand, that said I think the majority of people have a legitimate gripe due to the expectations the film was drumming up. First off there's the marketing, then there's the good reviews, then there's the build up within the film itself - you can't not expect people to get excited with what they were seeing/hearing/reading. Thing about expectations is that it's easy to say curb them, but when it looks like the film is living up to them you can't help but feel a sense of being robbed when the bomb drops so unexpectedly. I think in this case the vast majority of fans aren't liking the change because they're discovering the downside of what it means.

Thing is everyone seems to agree it works in context of the film, I'm seeing very few people actually say it flat out sucks because it isn't like the comics or whatever, it's just the epic showdown that was on the horizons never eventuates. The formula of hero verses villain has been around since we came down from the trees and there's a reason, because there's something inherently uplifting about seeing the good guy defy the odds against someone who in many ways is usually superior to him/her either physically, mentally or both. The question is is this the type of movie to be deconstructing the formula? I can appreciate them attempting it, but at the same time it's obvious doing so comes at a cost. If it's one thing Iron Man needed above anything else it was a memorable villain in this series, he hasn't even had a Loki level bad guy let alone a Joker or Lex Luthor one, and I think that's at the heart of the problem, the series is robbed of a nemesis that will etch itself in peoples brains when everything was pointing toward getting one, and I think deep down that's what everyone wanted. I know there this tendency on the IM boards to downplay the importance of villains but the truth is they are so important to the legacy of the character and everyone knows it. The Joker, Darth Vader, T-800, Gollum, Blofeld, Wicked Witch of the West, Moriarty, Sheriff of Nottingham, Grendel, you can go all the way back to ancient Greece with Poseidon, just a handful of the great villains in all of history, the list goes on, those antagonists helped cement the stories of their heroes for years, in some cases centuries after they were first told. And I think that is what people were hoping, maybe even longing for without knowing until after the fact, they wanted a new name etched into the stone alongside those other names.


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Old 04-30-2013, 09:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

For half the movie I thought Mandarin was going to be the greatest superhero villain since The Joker and then...oh dear.

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Old 04-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #31
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by divan View Post
Except, like it or not, Tony Stark does have a memorable villain not only in this film, but in every Iron Man movie: himself. Iron Man 3 is not a movie about a good guy improving to fight a bad guy, it's about a guy improving to fight his own flaws. The 'hero vs villain' game is effective, but not necessary when you have an alternative which is as interesting as that one. IM3 had a chance to portray Tony Stark's definitive villain onscreen and did so, just not the way you expected it because Tony's worst villain in the film is himself: his past mistakes and insecurities come to haunt them either physically such as the case of The Mandarin
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
(and by Mandarin I'm referring to Aldrich Killian because yes, he's IM3 Mandarin and yes, they did exploit the chance to bring the character to the 21st Century by commenting on the overall ridiculousness of its roots and 'media bad guys' in general)
or psychologically such as his inability to properly function without the armor during a good part of the film. His fight against this problems is his fight against the villain, because the villain is just an extension of what he did wrong. So yeah, Batman has his Joker, 007 has his Blofeld... Tony Stark has Tony Stark.
Batman and Bond have just as many demons as Stark, so I'd have to disagree with the implication that either of them are simply good guys going against bad guys. Wayne and Bond both have a lot of the same characteristics as Stark. Consequently, all three of them deal with similar flaws in their personalities and backgrounds.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #32
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

All sides need to remember...what works for you doesn't necessarily work for the other guy.

If others like what I like...cool.

If others don't like what I like....no big deal. It doesn't change my mind....and I'm not going to waste my time and raise my blood pressure by trying to change their minds.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:14 AM   #33
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by redfirebird2008 View Post
Batman and Bond have just as many demons as Stark, so I'd have to disagree with the implication that either of them are simply good guys going against bad guys. Wayne and Bond both have a lot of the same characteristics as Stark. Consequently, all three of them deal with similar flaws in their personalities and backgrounds.
Yes but the implication here was that Stark deals with such demons differently. As an example take the Daniel Craig version of James Bond in Skyfall, where him dealing with his troublesome aging, origins and emotions for the agency are more important than the villain Silva, who basically works as both his foil and a personification of Bond's inner demons. In this movie Stark is put in a similar but not exact situation, in the sense that his inner demons take the form a man.

The Joker's relationship with Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight for example is very different, as The Joker is trying to prove that Batman has flaws he really doesn't have. Wayne has his issues, but as he said in the film The Joker is chaotic, alone in his madness, that's why The Joker works so well as a foil to the Batman, because even if the psycho insists both are freaks he and Batman are nothing alike in The Dark Knight. While The Mandarin isn't a foil to Stark, he's a representation of his inner doubts and issues, he is (borrowing a phrase of another version of The Joker) Stark after having a bad day, but with a similar personality and obsessions.


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Old 04-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Glowing review from Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhugh...the-franchise/

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:26 AM   #35
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirebird2008 View Post
Batman and Bond have just as many demons as Stark, so I'd have to disagree with the implication that either of them are simply good guys going against bad guys. Wayne and Bond both have a lot of the same characteristics as Stark. Consequently, all three of them deal with similar flaws in their personalities and backgrounds.
I agree with that. The "personal demons" aspect can be found more or less in every superhero, or hero in general when we talk about these movies. They all fight against their villains, but at the same time they fight against themselves, and that's what makes them interesting. If the greatest and most memorable villain of a hero is himself, we would've never gotten any great villains in any story.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:29 AM   #36
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Norek View Post
I agree with that. The "personal demons" aspect can be found more or less in every superhero, or hero in general when we talk about these movies. They all fight against their villains, but at the same time they fight against themselves, and that's what makes them interesting. If the greatest and most memorable villain of a hero is himself, we would've never gotten any great villains in any story.
Yeah, the two things can easily co-exist.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by jmc View Post
I don't deny some people take it as a personal insult whenever changes are made in order for something to work in the medium at hand, that said I think the majority of people have a legitimate gripe due to the expectations the film was drumming up. First off there's the marketing, then there's the good reviews, then there's the build up within the film itself - you can't not expect people to get excited with what they were seeing/hearing/reading. Thing about expectations is that it's easy to say curb them, but when it looks like the film is living up to them you can't help but feel a sense of being robbed when the bomb drops so unexpectedly. I think in this case the vast majority of fans aren't liking the change because they're discovering the downside of what it means.

Thing is everyone seems to agree it works in context of the film, I'm seeing very few people actually say it flat out sucks because it isn't like the comics or whatever, it's just the epic showdown that was on the horizons never eventuates. The formula of hero verses villain has been around since we came down from the trees and there's a reason, because there's something inherently uplifting about seeing the good guy defy the odds against someone who in many ways is usually superior to him/her either physically, mentally or both. The question is is this the type of movie to be deconstructing the formula? I can appreciate them attempting it, but at the same time it's obvious doing so comes at a cost. If it's one thing Iron Man needed above anything else it was a memorable villain in this series, he hasn't even had a Loki level bad guy let alone a Joker or Lex Luthor one, and I think that's at the heart of the problem, the series is robbed of a nemesis that will etch itself in peoples brains when everything was pointing toward getting one, and I think deep down that's what everyone wanted. I know there this tendency on the IM boards to downplay the importance of villains but the truth is they are so important to the legacy of the character and everyone knows it. The Joker, Darth Vader, T-800, Gollum, Blofeld, Wicked Witch of the West, Moriarty, Sheriff of Nottingham, Grendel, you can go all the way back to ancient Greece with Poseidon, just a handful of the great villains in all of history, the list goes on, those antagonists helped cement the stories of their heroes for years, in some cases centuries after they were first told. And I think that is what people were hoping, maybe even longing for without knowing until after the fact, they wanted a new name etched into the stone alongside those other names.
Standing ovation for this post

I still think Obadiah Stane is the best villain Iron Man's had in this franchise. But it should have been The Mandarin.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:38 AM   #38
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I just want to clarify something, in my recent post I said 'I think in this case the vast majority of fans aren't liking the change because they're discovering the downside of what it means.' What I should have said was 'I think in this case the vast majority of fans who aren't liking the change don't like it because they're discovering the downside of what it means'. Just wanted to fix that in case people were misinterpreting what I was saying.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:38 AM   #39
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Norek View Post
I agree with that. The "personal demons" aspect can be found more or less in every superhero, or hero in general when we talk about these movies. They all fight against their villains, but at the same time they fight against themselves, and that's what makes them interesting. If the greatest and most memorable villain of a hero is himself, we would've never gotten any great villains in any story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfirebird2008 View Post
Yeah, the two things can easily co-exist.
But that they can coexist doesn't mean one has always to exist. For example, Batman has and will always have issues, but how are they played varies from film to film and from villain to villain. In Batman Begins for example we got a situation very similar to the one we got in Iron Man 3, in the sense that villains The Mandarin and Ra's Al Ghul work better by representing personality aspects the hero feels and hates to feel.

In The Dark Knight Batman's confrontation has really little to do with his inner issues. The Joker insists in such a theory but Batman proves him wrong every single time, the hero whose issues were personfied by The Joker in that movie was Harvey Dent.

In The Dark Knight, Batman fought against his personal problems, yes, but those were provoked by The Joker. In Batman Begins and Iron Man 3 Wayne and Stark fight a villain who represents his problems.

Quote:
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Standing ovation for this post

I still think Obadiah Stane is the best villain Iron Man's had in this franchise. But it should have been The Mandarin.
Obadiah is not a better villain than The Mandarin. Both have simple motivations but The Mandarin's is more interesting as it echoes Stark's own character arc. Stane was only in it for the money and nothing more.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:45 AM   #40
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Obadiah is not a better villain than The Mandarin. Both have simple motivations but The Mandarin's is more interesting as it echoes Stark's own character arc. Stane was only in it for the money and nothing more.
That's your opinion. I think Obadiah is a far better villain because he's the inner personal threat Tony never saw coming. The guy he grew up with, worked with, was best friends with his father, and then turned out to be a snake in the grass who ordered him to be killed, duplicated and stole his technology, and tried to take the entire Stark legacy from him because he felt he was owed it.

I found that more interesting than
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nerdy goofy Killian seeking revenge just because Tony never met him on the roof at a New Year's Eve party.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:46 AM   #41
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

JMC nailed it, and Cherokee's reply is exactly why I have him on my ignore list.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
That's your opinion. I think Obadiah is a far better villain because he's the inner personal threat Tony never saw coming. The guy he grew up with, worked with, was best friends with his father, and then turned out to be a snake in the grass who ordered him to be killed, duplicated and stole his technology, and tried to take the entire Stark legacy from him because he felt he was owed it.

I found that more interesting than
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nerdy goofy Killian seeking revenge just because Tony never met him on the roof at a New Year's Eve party.
Personally I thought that
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Killian's evolution echoing Stark's own motivations and being a product of his own flaws and obsessions
was more interesting. But I can understand what you say too. To each his own I guess, I think it's a matter of tastes. Nice comment.

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:58 AM   #43
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I have to say my two favorite IM villains of all time have been Stane and Madame Masque. I do like the mandarin, but his original interpretation was racist and pretty corny too. I don't know why Kirby always thought to use the first letter of the bad guy to put somewhere on his costume. Mandarins "M" shaped mask looked corny as hell. It was the same thing for Galactus with the "G" on his shirt.

People have done some good and bad takes on Mandarin. Anyone see the animated Invincible Iron Man, where Mandarin was the spirit of some dead Chinese emperor that possessed this chick Tony had the hots for?

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:00 AM   #44
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

JeremyJahns' review

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:03 AM   #45
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
I still think Obadiah Stane is the best villain Iron Man's had in this franchise. But it should have been The Mandarin.
Agreed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
I found that more interesting than
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nerdy goofy Killian seeking revenge just because Tony never met him on the roof at a New Year's Eve party.
...and agreed again. If there is one villain I would pick from this trilogy as Tony's arch-nemesis, it would be Obadiah rather than Killian.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:07 AM   #46
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Ok I get peoples dissapointments, but it almost sounds like since things didnt shape out the way they wanted, Tony wasnt tested in this. His home was destoryed, he had to think fast without his suit, face his fears, save his loved ones, and almost get killed cause of the villian in this. To me that makes a good villian even if its not the way I thought it would be. You can have a awsome sounding and looking bad guy in a movie and not have the good guy really tested, I have seen it in many films. I am looking for a hero to be put through the ringer and thats what I got here so I was fine with it.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:11 AM   #47
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
That's your opinion. I think Obadiah is a far better villain because he's the inner personal threat Tony never saw coming. The guy he grew up with, worked with, was best friends with his father, and then turned out to be a snake in the grass who ordered him to be killed, duplicated and stole his technology, and tried to take the entire Stark legacy from him because he felt he was owed it.

I found that more interesting than
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nerdy goofy Killian seeking revenge just because Tony never met him on the roof at a New Year's Eve party.
It seems every time Marvel Studios is close to finally creating a memorable villain (with the exception of Loki) they fudge it up with shoddy writing, or in this case an underwhelming twist.

I vote for Stane too, but Vanko had potential.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:17 AM   #48
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_agent View Post
JeremyJahns' review

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
Thanks, been waiting for this guy.

Who also loved the way
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Pre-twist Mandarin said "AMERICAHH !!!" Man, he was soo good
Best part of the movie right there.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #49
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Though Killian's main motivation is not the get revenge on Stark. His main motivation is to be Stark: he wants what Stark had because he feels inferior, including the women of his life (he takes Pepper as a trophy and kills Hansen once it's made clear she still prefers Stark over Killian).

He's perfectly willing to give him the desperation he felt, but note that every time he actively tries to kill Stark is because the later proved his superiority (after the thing on National TV or when Stark starts to cancel his plans at the end). He is, however, also open to have Stark as a subordinate to make his projects a reality so no, revenge is not the main motivation for Killian.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:23 AM   #50
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I vote for Stane too, but Vanko had potential.
According to Mickey Rourke he and Favreau were all up for making Vanko a more multi dimensional villain but the studio screwed them over:

“[W]hen I did Ivan Vanko in Iron Man, I fought… You know, I explained to Justin Theroux, to the writer, and to [Jon] Favreau, that I wanted to bring some other layers and colors [to the character], not just make this Russian a complete murderous revenging bad guy. And they allowed me to do that. Unfortunately, the [people] at Marvel just wanted a one-dimensional bad guy, so most of the performance ended up the floor.”

“[It’s] ****ing too bad, but it’s their loss. If they want to make mindless comic book movies, then I don’t want to be a part of that. I don’t want to have to care so much and work so hard, and then fight them for intelligent reasoning, and just because they’re calling the shots they… You know, I didn’t work for three months on the accent and all the adjustments and go to Russia just so I could end up on the floor. Because that can make somebody say at the end of the day, oh **** ‘em, I’m just going to mail it in. But I’m not that kind of guy. I’m never going to mail it in.”

“If they let you play the bad guy with other dimensions other than one-dimensional. You have to fight for that though, to bring layers to the character. Otherwise, if you’re working for the wrong studio or let’s say a director that doesn’t have any balls, then they’re just gonna want it to be the evil bad guy. […] So, if you’re working with some good studio guys that got brains and you’re working with a director with a set of nuts that’ll let you incorporate that then it’s fun. Otherwise, you end up with what happened on ‘Iron Man.’”

http://screenrant.com/mickey-rourke-...s-benm-139224/

I agree with him. One of my biggest disappointments after seeing IM2 was Vanko. He really paled in comparison to Stane as the chief bad guy. Hammer was a ton of fun but he was mainly comic relief. The pair of them together didn't come half way close to matching Bridges' greatness as Stane, IMO. But that wasn't their fault.

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