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View Poll Results: Rate the movie!
10 7 5.74%
9 36 29.51%
8 35 28.69%
7 13 10.66%
6 13 10.66%
5 7 5.74%
4 6 4.92%
3 2 1.64%
2 1 0.82%
1 2 1.64%
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:23 AM   #51
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex View Post
It seems every time Marvel Studios is close to finally creating a memorable villain (with the exception of Loki) they fudge it up with shoddy writing, or in this case an underwhelming twist.

I vote for Stane too, but Vanko had potential.
That's your opinion. Love how you say "with the exception of Loki" because aside from Ledger's Joker and McKellum's Magneto there hasn't been a performance like that in any comic book movie that comes close.

As a long time Iron Man fan, I'll admit he doesn't have the best rogue gallery, which is why the movies were smart about making the film about Tony Stark. It's one of the few superhero movies where we're as interested in the character out of the suit as we are in the suit.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:30 AM   #52
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I would say Tom Hardy's Bane, Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, and Alfred Molina's Doctor Octopus all come close.And that was off the top of my head.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:35 AM   #53
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Not even close on any of those IMO.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:38 AM   #54
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
According to Mickey Rourke he and Favreau were all up for making Vanko a more multi dimensional villain but the studio screwed them over:

-snip-

I agree with him. One of my biggest disappointments after seeing IM2 was Vanko. He really paled in comparison to Stane as the chief bad guy. Hammer was a ton of fun but he was mainly comic relief. The pair of them together didn't come half way close to matching Bridges' greatness as Stane, IMO. But that wasn't their fault.
You know, that kind of stuff just reinforces my feelings towards Iron Man 3. Why Marvel Studios does that kind of stuff is beyond me. And the whole thing I take from it, that's one of the reasons I was so disappointed, is just wasted potential.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:39 AM   #55
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I don't understand why you can't make both the hero AND the villain awesome.

It's the same problem I have with most of the Batfilms.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:47 AM   #56
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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That's your opinion. Love how you say "with the exception of Loki" because aside from Ledger's Joker and McKellum's Magneto there hasn't been a performance like that in any comic book movie that comes close.
Well there you go. And that's your opinion. No matter how good McKellen is I can never put his performance next tho Heath's Joker. Not even close. But that's just me.

The thing is, and I agree with Doomsday, apart from Loki, MCU doesn't have a whole lot of memorable villains. If you look around, villains like Joker and Bane are being quoted all the time, people dress up as them and parody them, draw funny **** with them, people who aren't necessarily fans recognize them, etc, etc. They were memorable. The same cannot be said about Whiplash, Justin Hammer, Blonsky, or Red Skull - even though they had all these great actors in the roles.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:50 AM   #57
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
According to Mickey Rourke he and Favreau were all up for making Vanko a more multi dimensional villain but the studio screwed them over:

“[W]hen I did Ivan Vanko in Iron Man, I fought… You know, I explained to Justin Theroux, to the writer, and to [Jon] Favreau, that I wanted to bring some other layers and colors [to the character], not just make this Russian a complete murderous revenging bad guy. And they allowed me to do that. Unfortunately, the [people] at Marvel just wanted a one-dimensional bad guy, so most of the performance ended up the floor.”

“[It’s] ****ing too bad, but it’s their loss. If they want to make mindless comic book movies, then I don’t want to be a part of that. I don’t want to have to care so much and work so hard, and then fight them for intelligent reasoning, and just because they’re calling the shots they… You know, I didn’t work for three months on the accent and all the adjustments and go to Russia just so I could end up on the floor. Because that can make somebody say at the end of the day, oh **** ‘em, I’m just going to mail it in. But I’m not that kind of guy. I’m never going to mail it in.”

“If they let you play the bad guy with other dimensions other than one-dimensional. You have to fight for that though, to bring layers to the character. Otherwise, if you’re working for the wrong studio or let’s say a director that doesn’t have any balls, then they’re just gonna want it to be the evil bad guy. […] So, if you’re working with some good studio guys that got brains and you’re working with a director with a set of nuts that’ll let you incorporate that then it’s fun. Otherwise, you end up with what happened on ‘Iron Man.’”

http://screenrant.com/mickey-rourke-...s-benm-139224/

I agree with him. One of my biggest disappointments after seeing IM2 was Vanko. He really paled in comparison to Stane as the chief bad guy. Hammer was a ton of fun but he was mainly comic relief. The pair of them together didn't come half way close to matching Bridges' greatness as Stane, IMO. But that wasn't their fault.

yeah we've all heard this, the only BS part is that it was left on the cutting room floor. Either they never filmed it, or he's lying. the only cut scene with Vanko was an alternate ending where he walked into the Expo at the end and captured Pepper in a similar costume to the one he had at the race track. They replaced that with one where he created a suit of armor.

A lot of his suggestions made it into the film, like his Russian mafia tattoos, and such. The more likely story is that his character was never written to be more than it was, and he was pissed about that.

I too would have wanted to see more about Vanko, and that's a legit criticism about Iron Man 2, what is BS is that Feige somehow forced Favreau to cut all those scenes.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:52 AM   #58
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

For me the best villains;
A) are the ones that look like the hero doesn't have a hope of defeating (T-1000, Vader, Agent Smith) they are a genuine threat.
B) are connected to hero, through blood or familiarity.
C) from their point of view what they are doing makes sense and is the right thing to do.

The villain in IM3 ticks a lot of these boxes but the execution IMHO was poor and I was sold one thing and given another (a major reason I didn't like Inception).

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:56 AM   #59
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Well there you go. And that's your opinion. No matter how good McKellen is I can never put his performance next tho Heath's Joker. Not even close. But that's just me.

The thing is, and I agree with Doomsday, apart from Loki, MCU doesn't have a whole lot of memorable villains. If you look around, villains like Joker and Bane are being quoted all the time, people dress up as them and parody them, draw funny **** with them, people who aren't necessarily fans recognize them, etc, etc. They were memorable. The same cannot be said about Whiplash, Justin Hammer, Blonsky, or Red Skull - even though they had all these great actors in the roles.
The two I wouldn't pair together are Joker and Bane. Bane might be recognizable, but not for good reasons.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:59 AM   #60
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

also do you really want people dressing like red skull?

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:04 PM   #61
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Well there you go. And that's your opinion. No matter how good McKellen is I can never put his performance next tho Heath's Joker. Not even close. But that's just me.

The thing is, and I agree with Doomsday, apart from Loki, MCU doesn't have a whole lot of memorable villains. If you look around, villains like Joker and Bane are being quoted all the time, people dress up as them and parody them, draw funny **** with them, people who aren't necessarily fans recognize them, etc, etc. They were memorable. The same cannot be said about Whiplash, Justin Hammer, Blonsky, or Red Skull - even though they had all these great actors in the roles.
I think McKellen was great as Magneto and out of the superheroes/villains that's been played by more than one actor I'd say that Magneto is the best acted of all.

It's also pretty interesting in regards to Batman and Iron Man as I think they are almost polar opposites. Batman had a great villain (The Joker) but I didn't care as much about Batman/Wayne himself in that movie (this goes for a lesser extent to TDKR, as Bane wasn't quite as good and got ruined at the end for me). Iron Man/Stark is hugely entertaining for me though but the villains weren't as iconic (I haven't seen the third movie yet though).

I think that Thor is the hero that balances good hero and good villain the best for me. It will be interesting to see how it turns out when there's a new villain in TDW.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:11 PM   #62
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I don't understand why you can't make both the hero AND the villain awesome.

It's the same problem I have with most of the Batfilms.
In a perfect movie, both the hero AND villain are awesome and interesting and compelling. Usually, though, even in really good movies, the writer shows his personal prejudice towards one or the other.

I agree that the Batfilms are a good example, particularly the Nolan trilogy: Batman Begins is, to my mind, the best Batman that has ever been put on film. The movie focused on him. To the detriment of the villains, unfortunately --- I don't think R'as or Scarecrow or the gangsters were anything more than punching bags for Bats. Then Nolan went to the other extreme for TDK and TDKR, and made fascinating villains, and relegated Batman to hiding in the long shadows that the villains cast.

Regarding Iron Man, I wish to god that some day someone will create a truly great villain for him. It'll have to be an original concept, though --- I don't think you'll ever get that from his comic book baddies. Certainly not from Mandarin.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:17 PM   #63
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
According to Mickey Rourke he and Favreau were all up for making Vanko a more multi dimensional villain but the studio screwed them over:

“[W]hen I did Ivan Vanko in Iron Man, I fought… You know, I explained to Justin Theroux, to the writer, and to [Jon] Favreau, that I wanted to bring some other layers and colors [to the character], not just make this Russian a complete murderous revenging bad guy. And they allowed me to do that. Unfortunately, the [people] at Marvel just wanted a one-dimensional bad guy, so most of the performance ended up the floor.”

“[It’s] ****ing too bad, but it’s their loss. If they want to make mindless comic book movies, then I don’t want to be a part of that. I don’t want to have to care so much and work so hard, and then fight them for intelligent reasoning, and just because they’re calling the shots they… You know, I didn’t work for three months on the accent and all the adjustments and go to Russia just so I could end up on the floor. Because that can make somebody say at the end of the day, oh **** ‘em, I’m just going to mail it in. But I’m not that kind of guy. I’m never going to mail it in.”

“If they let you play the bad guy with other dimensions other than one-dimensional. You have to fight for that though, to bring layers to the character. Otherwise, if you’re working for the wrong studio or let’s say a director that doesn’t have any balls, then they’re just gonna want it to be the evil bad guy. […] So, if you’re working with some good studio guys that got brains and you’re working with a director with a set of nuts that’ll let you incorporate that then it’s fun. Otherwise, you end up with what happened on ‘Iron Man.’”

http://screenrant.com/mickey-rourke-...s-benm-139224/

I agree with him. One of my biggest disappointments after seeing IM2 was Vanko. He really paled in comparison to Stane as the chief bad guy. Hammer was a ton of fun but he was mainly comic relief. The pair of them together didn't come half way close to matching Bridges' greatness as Stane, IMO. But that wasn't their fault.
I wholeheartedly agree.

I was genuinely excited about Mickey being the villain for IM2, especially when it was revealed that his character [Vanko] was connected to Stark's unsavory past and that he wouldn't by your typical run-in-the-mill villain. I loved hearing about Rourke traveling to Russia and researching tattoos and prison culture too. It sounded so intriguing... then IM2 premiered and I left disappointed with the final product. Which is dreadful because I was enamored by Vanko's appearance and dialogue from the trailers. It sounds like Mickey was just as disappointed as we were with how it was all edited in the end.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:17 PM   #64
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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also do you really want people dressing like red skull?
Why not? This guy was at a con I went to last month -


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Old 04-30-2013, 12:26 PM   #65
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

The Iron Man comics have always been about Tony Stark's personal struggles. The villains were secondary. As we've discussed, the most interesting of Tony's villains were the personal connections, Stane, Hammer, Madame Masque. IMO anyway.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:33 PM   #66
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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The two I wouldn't pair together are Joker and Bane. Bane might be recognizable, but not for good reasons.
How so?

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
I think McKellen was great as Magneto and out of the superheroes/villains that's been played by more than one actor I'd say that Magneto is the best acted of all.
See, that's the thing; I didn't want to say McKellen isn't good or anything. As are many of the actors cast in the villain roles for superhero movies. I can't remember the last time I was disappointed when I heard an actor being cast in a certain role. Jack Nicholson, Jeff Bridges, William Hurt, Alfred Molina, Tim Roth, Hugo Weaving, Guy Pierce, Ben Kingsley, Heath Ledger, Tom Hardy, Liam Neeson, Michael Shannon, Tom Hiddleston, Kevin Bacon, Sam Rockwell, Mickey Rourke... The list can go on and on. These are all great actors! Even ****ties superhero movies often cast huge actors for their villains.

But I'd lie if I say that it doesn't make me disappointed to see a Studio cast a big actor for a great role that's not written well or not done justice. Vanko in IM2 is the perfect example of that. I was so excited when I heard Rourke was cast in the role, and I loved how he sounded and looked, and couldn't wait to see the villain on screen, but I was disappointed. Same with Ben Kingsley's Mandarin. I hate seeing so much potential get thrown away through the window. It's like a bad joke.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:36 PM   #67
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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That's your opinion. Love how you say "with the exception of Loki" because aside from Ledger's Joker and McKellum's Magneto there hasn't been a performance like that in any comic book movie that comes close.
Wrong.

Tom Hardy's Bane, Michael Fassbender's Magneto, Alfred Molina's Doctor Ock, Terrence Stamp's Zod, Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, etc were equally as impressive.

Quote:
As a long time Iron Man fan, I'll admit he doesn't have the best rogue gallery, which is why the movies were smart about making the film about Tony Stark. It's one of the few superhero movies where we're as interested in the character out of the suit as we are in the suit.
His rogue gallery might not be on par with Batman, for example, but that doesn't mean Vanko and The Mandarin were dead sticks or chopped liver. It was the writer's job to make the villain memorable despite his or her's history in the comics. Look at Bane, you may not agree but Nolan engrained him into pop-culture after decades of mistreatment in the writing department.

Loki is such a bright spot for the MCU because he's a complex character that the general audience can sympathize with (similar to Magneto). The writing for him has been top notch but when arriving to the countless others Marvel Studios has been mediocre.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:40 PM   #68
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I love how people complain about the twist , but no one said anything when they did the same thing in Batman Begins. Go figure!

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:46 PM   #69
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I love how people complain about the twist , but no one said anything when they did the same thing in Batman Begins. Go figure!
I, myself, wasn't big on the twist either but you can't compare the two.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Ra's al Ghul wasn't a pissed off nerd seeking vengeance because he was 'insulted'.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:50 PM   #70
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I love how people complain about the twist , but no one said anything when they did the same thing in Batman Begins. Go figure!
I have said it before, and I will say it again - just because one particular thing works in one movie doesn't mean it works the same way in another. You can't expect me to like every movie that has a certain cliche, and it's absolutely ridiculous to say "Well you liked this movie because of this, why don't you like that movie too".

Besides, the BB twist and the IM3 barely have anything in common. I still don't get why people compare them, other than the fact that they involve someone being a decoy for someone else. They play out differently, they happen in a different context, overall they really can't be any more different.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:53 PM   #71
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I, myself, wasn't big on the twist either but you can't compare the two.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Ra's al Ghul wasn't a pissed off nerd seeking vengeance because he was 'insulted'.
Yes, and neither did Bruce Wayne found out that Ken Watanabe was drunken actor who belongs to a SNL sketch.

It's not the kind of twist it turned out to be, it's the context of it and how it plays out that people didn't like.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:54 PM   #72
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

I agree Alfred's Doc Ock was a top notch villain I must say, I'd rank him up there with the greats.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Wrong.

Tom Hardy's Bane, Michael Fassbender's Magneto, Alfred Molina's Doctor Ock, Terrence Stamp's Zod, Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, etc were equally as impressive.

He's not wrong. He is entitled to his opinion.

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Old 04-30-2013, 01:00 PM   #74
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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I love how people complain about the twist , but no one said anything when they did the same thing in Batman Begins. Go figure!
In what dimension are they POSSIBLY the same thing ?

When Liam Neeson was revealed to be Ra's people went "hey that's pretty bad ass, Ra's isn't dead" Plus they replace a cool looking Ra's with a cool looking Ra's thats also Liam Neeson !!!!

In IM 3
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
they replace a cool looking villain with, no offense to Guy Pierce, a lesser badguy.

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Old 04-30-2013, 01:12 PM   #75
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Default Re: Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread. - Part 1

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
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I still think Obadiah Stane is the best villain Iron Man's had in this franchise. But it should have been The Mandarin.
in 2008 if a future me would come and visit me and told me that Obadia Stane is the best villain in all 3 movies i would i would beat him(me) into a come.
its sad what they did to Mandarin.

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