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Old 05-01-2013, 12:54 AM   #51
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

yeah I am one of those people who doesn't read comics, so doesn't really relate to those like yourself and others who don't like too much character change from comic to screen. But I really think this change worked well, both as a character standpoint and within the context of the movie.

I'm really looking forward to your opinion after you see the movie! So make sure to post somewhere or PM me!

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Old 05-01-2013, 08:02 AM   #52
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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I haven't seen Iron Man 3 yet, so I am really trying to keep an open mind and reserve judgement of the film until I get to see it on May 4th. However.....


based on spoilers I have read, I can understand why some fans would be truly upset. Now I am in no way suggesting this is not a great movie (maybe it's even their best), but that doesn't diminish how a fan feels when a character they care about is represented differently then how they percieve that character. I know it is how I felt when I saw Galactus being represented as a galactic storm cloud, (as he is one of my favorite characters from the comics). I was so pissed, and at that time I vowed I would never see another Fox Comic Book Movie. Especially, with Marvel making their own movies it seemed like we could trust that they would treat their own characters with the most respect. However, in Iron Man 2 they had the amalgrim Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo, which I saw as a serious mis-step for Marvel, but I figured while it was financially successful it was their most criticized movie to date, so I kind of felt that they learned their lesson about combining villians or changing them so dramatically. So, fast forward to Iron Man 3, and yeah it seems a little disappointing that they learned nothing and that it is just like Iron Man 2 all over again (at least as far as handling of the villian). Now I am not necearilly a huge fan of the Mandarin from the comics, but I do believe in respecting the source material. This does not mean I am looking for an exact or litteral translation of the character, such as the fu man chu and things that could be looked upon as racist, but with a major superheroes arch nemsis you would at least think that they would find it important to honor the characters basic look (which they did pretty well considering), motives, powers, and possibly be looking at how they can possibly incorporate him later into a sequel of sorts. I mean sure Mandarin is not on the scale of Loki in terms of popular villians within the Marvel Universe, but in essensce Mandarin is to Iron Man what Loki is to Thor, or even Red Skull is to Captain America, and yet from what I have read he did not get the same treatment or respect, and they even went as far as to make him appear like a joke. Also, I feel like Marvel should not only be looking to sell tickets for these movies, but towards the long haul by trying to get people interested in these character so they check out the comics. However, when you have a situation like this the person that sees the film goes to check out the comic and they see a very different character then what they seen on the film, and this could lead to them becoming disinterested. I think it is really a missed opportunity for them to get people into comics when they change the characters this dramatically from the source, so I don't get why they would do it. I realize the movies are big business, but the continued success of comics should also be extremely important to them, as there can really be a synergy created between the two medias. Anyways, I know it sounds like I am whining, but truth is I am a little angry because I feel like a hypocrite now, that I was so mad at FOX and now I feel like Marvel is doing the same thing. I wasn't going to go see the new Fantastic Four Reboot when it came out and was hoping it would revert back to Marvel, but with recent developments I think I could possibly eat crow by hoping it stays with FOX and by going to see it in the theater. However, as I said originally despite my rant, I will wait until after I have seen the movie to make a final decision about how I feel and then go from there.


Please know that the above comments are only my thoughts and if I have offended anyone that has seen the movie I apologize, I am just trying to get some stuff of my chest.


Surfer
Um, the criticism for iron man 2 had nothing to do with the fact that they merged whiplash and crimson dynamo into one character. General audiences and critics, the opinions of whom are what truly matter in the long run (not those of fans) either didn't realize that they combined 2 characters or didnt care because the two characters are pretty lame in the first place, and were improved IMO.the only lesson that was to be "learned" from Im 2 was to limit the avengers set up, which they did.

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Old 05-01-2013, 08:47 AM   #53
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Originally Posted by mkilban2 View Post
yeah I am one of those people who doesn't read comics, so doesn't really relate to those like yourself and others who don't like too much character change from comic to screen. But I really think this change worked well, both as a character standpoint and within the context of the movie.

I'm really looking forward to your opinion after you see the movie! So make sure to post somewhere or PM me!
Thanks mkilban2, I will let you know what I think after I have seen it, and I am pretty confident I will enjoy the movie despite how I feel about the changes to the character.

Surfer

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Old 05-01-2013, 09:42 AM   #54
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Um, the criticism for iron man 2 had nothing to do with the fact that they merged whiplash and crimson dynamo into one character. General audiences and critics, the opinions of whom are what truly matter in the long run (not those of fans) either didn't realize that they combined 2 characters or didnt care because the two characters are pretty lame in the first place, and were improved IMO.the only lesson that was to be "learned" from Im 2 was to limit the avengers set up, which they did.
DarkSovereignty, I agree with alot of what you said. I do think that most people complaining about Iron Man 2 did take the largest issue with it being a setup for Avengers and not enough of a stand alone film. However, I wouldn't go as far as to suggest that nobody was upset by the amalgrimation of Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo at least not within the comic community. Now I understand where you are coming from, as you feel they are not aiming at the fans and they are aiming at the wider audience and critics with these movies. I mean after all they are a business right? However, my question would be why do they not have enough faith in their own characters with their long histories and compelling stories to sustain a movie? Once again I think some smaller changes are okay to make a character more relateable to todays crowd (such as Tony Stark being taken prisoner and becoming Iron Man in Afghanistan versus Vietnam), but large changes leave me feeling like they have little faith in their characters. Now perhaps you would say these character were lame by themselves as a reason for their change, but I would say the amalgrimation of Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo was lame. You could say that it doesn't matter what I think because they are targeting non comic book fans (which is fair enough), but I would say comic book fans are the foundation of what made their business great and it has allowed them to prosper and get to where they are today, and a home without a strong foundation can collapse. Keep in mind that if their movie universe fails or just runs it's course and ends, their continued success as a business will depend on the comics, so I think they should be taking every opportunity to convert audiences into comic book fans along the way (and of course vice versa), which to me means you respect the source. Anyways, that is how I see it, I have said my peace, but I do respect where your coming from.

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Old 05-01-2013, 10:24 AM   #55
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Sorry, just had to say one more thing. I came across this article elsewhere where Zack Snyder is talking about Man of Steel and he states.


We weren't apologizing for Superman, which I feel happened in the past. It's Superman, for God's sake. He's a thing to be celebrated."

Now I realize Superman is a huge title character for DC and the characters being discussed here related to Marvel are not nearly as huge, but I think all comic characters whether they be Marvel or DC properties should be celebrated and that they shouldn't feel the need to be apologetic to general audiences about them. I think if these companies had more faith in their characters people would love the characters just the way they are.

Sorry, just had to say that one last thing and I promise I'm done until after I have seen the movie. Hoping I love it.

Surfer

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Old 05-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #56
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Not not sound like a dick but Synder really needs a bit of perspective. The guy thinks he's doing the next Star Wars or even Citizen Kane sometimes.

I'm sure Man of Steel will be great and I'm more excited for that movie than for this one, but seriously sometimes he's just repellent. If Man of Steel doesn't end up the best movie ever all those phrases will sound ridiculous.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:02 AM   #57
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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mkilban2, thanks for your comment and perhaps I am too quick to judge not having seen the actual film and I can admit that, but.....

I feel changing these characters in general is ultimately a bad move.

I mean I know many people think it is not a big deal to change some characters for the big screen, (and perhaps some minor changes do need to be done to make it work), but I feel it is easy for someone to say this when they don't have a personal connection to that specific character in the comics. However, they must consider somebody out there does have a love for the character, while to others he or she could even be their absolute favorite character, and to those people they are messing him or her up. So, to comic fans that think it is not a big deal, I would ask how they would feel if their favorite character was dramatically changed from the comic for their big screen debut? For me that was Galactus and I was not happy at all, and I think most fans would feel the same if there favorite character was not treated well on the big screen. I am just saying it is easy to say who cares about the changes, but when it effects a character your emotionally connected to then it matters. In the end though complaining or being upset won't change anything, (whats done is done), so I will wait for the film and I hope to be swayed by it's awesomeness.


Thanks again for your reply.

Surfer
well if the rumors of
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Killian/Mandarin popping up again are true, then, there's certainly more to the whole mandarin thing going on..in a way, it seems like they were both the mandarin..to an extent..especially with what goes on with extremis

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:32 AM   #58
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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well if the rumors of
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Killian/Mandarin popping up again are true, then, there's certainly more to the whole mandarin thing going on..in a way, it seems like they were both the mandarin..to an extent..especially with what goes on with extremis
Are you sure you mean "rumors"?

Are you sure you don't mean "a few fans talking about a possibility that was never mentioned or hinted at in the film or by the film-makers"?

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:33 AM   #59
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Are you sure you mean "rumors"?

Are you sure you don't mean "a few fans talking about a possibility that was never mentioned or hinted at in the film or by the film-makers"?
I was thinking the same thing.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:47 AM   #60
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Not not sound like a dick but Synder really needs a bit of perspective. The guy thinks he's doing the next Star Wars or even Citizen Kane sometimes.

I'm sure Man of Steel will be great and I'm more excited for that movie than for this one, but seriously sometimes he's just repellent. If Man of Steel doesn't end up the best movie ever all those phrases will sound ridiculous.

It's a bit off topic , but there's a lot of pressure on Snyder to deliver and I hope he does.


Honestly I root for all comic films to succeed ( and be good) . It's sort of become a genre and anything to keep it thriving helps.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:58 AM   #61
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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It's a bit off topic , but there's a lot of pressure on Snyder to deliver and I hope he does.


Honestly I root for all comic films to succeed ( and be good) . It's sort of become a genre and anything to keep it thriving helps.
It's not a genre, but I too root for all comic book films, DC or Marvel or any other.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:07 PM   #62
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Kingsley was great and I thought the twist was very good.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:18 PM   #63
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

heh Ben was on Leno the other night and Larry the Cable Guy followed him. Larry made it obvious that he wasn't going to call Ben SIR.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:29 PM   #64
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Are you sure you mean "rumors"?

Are you sure you don't mean "a few fans talking about a possibility that was never mentioned or hinted at in the film or by the film-makers"?

Nope, by rumors, I mean Roger Wardell2 lol

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Old 05-01-2013, 01:26 PM   #65
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Kingsley was great and I thought the twist was very good.
Kingsley was great, no doubt, but i hated the twist. Shane Black tried to replicate Chris Nolan's Ra's al Ghul twist from Batman Begins, and in the process, destroyed the character of Mandarin who is the most iconic Iron Man villain. The idea of the Mandarin being a created persona was terrible. Ben Kingsley as the REAL mandarin and the main villain would have made an epic movie.

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Old 05-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #66
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Chris Nolan was the first man in space.

Chris Nolan was the first person to slice bread.

Chris Nolan invented the wheel.

Everything, everywhere is a rip off of something Chris Nolan did.

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Old 05-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #67
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Originally Posted by James Howlett View Post
WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!!! DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Kingsley was great, no doubt, but i hated the twist. Shane Black tried to replicate Chris Nolan's Ra's al Ghul twist from Batman Begins, and in the process, destroyed the character of Mandarin who is the most iconic Iron Man villain. The idea of the Mandarin being a created persona was terrible. Ben Kingsley as the REAL mandarin and the main villain would have made an epic movie.
or you know....you could use spoiler tags...

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Old 05-01-2013, 01:51 PM   #68
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

So, are you guys saying it is unlikely we will see this type of thing in the future.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


and yes I made it myself. Lol

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Old 05-01-2013, 02:09 PM   #69
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!!! DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE

Kingsley was great, no doubt, but i hated the twist. Shane Black tried to replicate Chris Nolan's Ra's al Ghul twist from Batman Begins, and in the process, destroyed the character of Mandarin who is the most iconic Iron Man villain. The idea of the Mandarin being a created persona was terrible. Ben Kingsley as the REAL mandarin and the main villain would have made an epic movie.
No, as much i love Nolan's work not everything has to be a ripoff of something Nolan did. The twist had nothing similar to Ras Al Ghul. Ducard being Ras Al Ghul and having decoys is Nolan's way of saying that Ras Al Ghul is Immortal, he is an idea more than a man. So instead of the Lazarus Pits he has more grounded decoys to pass his Message to the world. The twist in Iron Man 3 is a Shane Blackism, its a very smart twist that pisses people off, usually people that are invested in Iron Man as a character. I, who havent't read many Iron Man books and don't care for him as much as i do other characters (ex Batman, Daredevil) it didn't bother me much, actually if you watch the film a second time knowing the twist is pretty funny and the movie makes A LOT more sense. Except the part with the kid sidekick that sucked big time.

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Old 05-01-2013, 02:28 PM   #70
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Originally Posted by James Howlett View Post
WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!!! DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE

Kingsley was great, no doubt, but i hated the twist. Shane Black tried to replicate Chris Nolan's Ra's al Ghul twist from Batman Begins, and in the process, destroyed the character of Mandarin who is the most iconic Iron Man villain. The idea of the Mandarin being a created persona was terrible. Ben Kingsley as the REAL mandarin and the main villain would have made an epic movie.
Tried to replicate Nolan's twist? Not at all. This one was done for comedic effect more than anything.

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Old 05-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

Surfer! that manip made me lol so hard! haha

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Old 05-01-2013, 03:54 PM   #72
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

The Mandarin Featurette
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wR4C8vJmF0

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Old 05-01-2013, 03:54 PM   #73
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Chris Nolan was the first man in space.

Chris Nolan was the first person to slice bread.

Chris Nolan invented the wheel.

Everything, everywhere is a rip off of something Chris Nolan did.
No one will get this reference, but whatever:

Chris Nolan invented Dave Mustaine.

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Old 05-01-2013, 04:29 PM   #74
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Now I realize Superman is a huge title character for DC and the characters being discussed here related to Marvel are not nearly as huge, but I think all comic characters whether they be Marvel or DC properties should be celebrated and that they shouldn't feel the need to be apologetic to general audiences about them. I think if these companies had more faith in their characters people would love the characters just the way they are.
Every property and adaptation have many changes, this isn't just a "MARVEL thing" if that's what you're implying. Just look at how many changes were Nolan's Batman and the changes we already know about Snyder's Superman.

For crying out loud:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Superman's birth was even changed in that film to make him even more of an outsider. And that's just one change. Plus supposedly Lois knows Superman is Clark BEFORE Clark works at the Daily Planet - or the rumors say that. I'm not saying this is necessarily bad but it is going in blindly to say that DC and Snyder stays true to the characters while MARVEL doesn't.


Thought I had to say something because the way you phrased it made it sound like Snyder was being reverent and true to the mythology when even he is changing things and sometimes important things about the mythology. But, films and comics and TV can and should do this. If this didn't happen Superman wouldn't be able to fly and Lex would still be a mad scientist plus kryptonite wouldn't exist.

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Old 05-01-2013, 04:31 PM   #75
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Default Re: Ben Kingsley is The Mandarin! - Part 1

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Sorry, just had to say one more thing. I came across this article elsewhere where Zack Snyder is talking about Man of Steel and he states.


We weren't apologizing for Superman, which I feel happened in the past. It's Superman, for God's sake. He's a thing to be celebrated."

Now I realize Superman is a huge title character for DC and the characters being discussed here related to Marvel are not nearly as huge, but I think all comic characters whether they be Marvel or DC properties should be celebrated and that they shouldn't feel the need to be apologetic to general audiences about them. I think if these companies had more faith in their characters people would love the characters just the way they are.

Sorry, just had to say that one last thing and I promise I'm done until after I have seen the movie. Hoping I love it.

Surfer
This should be carved into the forehead of the guy who decided the Mandarin Twist was a good idea.

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